The Panzer IV is the new T-34
- Thread starter Nezzer
- Start date
So, Sarkis, T 34 blind you ? T 34 have also bad points :
- bad optics of T 34. (Panzer IV has better optics)
- track outwheeling easily when T 34 turn too quickly.
- tiring driving for T 34 crew. (T 34 is hard to drive)
- no good communication system between T 34 crew.
- no cupola for the tank commander. (Panzer IV has cupola)
- T 34 created too much smoke.
- T 34 created too much sound and noise.
Panzer IV has not theses problems. Then Panzer IV is not superior only by its gun...but also with all theses weak points of T 34.
By "panzer IV" i meaned panzer IV G (the german panzer of Ro2).
Panzer IV F1 is not in RO 2.
Panzer IV G have been created to counter T 34 76, T 34 85 to counter Panzer IV G and late versions, Panther to counter T 34 85.
If i remenber well :
Panther created near september 44.
T 34 85 created in late 43.
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Laughable comparison. The Panzer IV had tracks that would be frozen during the winter morning, and that were narrow and would get stuck everywhere, it was also pretty slow outside of roads. A T-34 would shoot a Panzer once and it would blow up, taking all its advantages, or the Panzer would do the same. And also the T-34 had a periscope in exchange for the cupola. And didn't the Panzer also create noise and smoke? The only real detrimental thing would be the lack of radios on the T-34 and possibly intercom for the crews, I am not sure if the latter is true. But one can't compare both tanks like this ''T-34 had a few weaknesses hence Panzer wins'', you have to do as Phoenix did.
It actually is, somewhat. Since the F1 is virtually the same as the early G variant, in terms of protection, with the exception of mild modifications and the different gun.
No, Phoenix is right again.
The Panther was from 43.
Also, why do you use the black color for all your phrases, and why do you color each single phrase with black instead of the whole text? And please don't use black...
(Annoying color tags removed for readability)
Neither is the Panther or T-34/85. I was giving you a history lesson, and demonstrating how the Panzer 4 F2/early-G that we have in-game was a stop-gap measure to give the Germans some ability to survive against the T-34/76, until they could get a proper tank built and designed. It was very much as Mekh said; it was re-designed so that the Germans weren't completely outclassed, but it far from being "the tank to beat the T-34."
You remember poorly. The Panther prototype was made in November 1942, while the first of the main production line were assigned in January 1943, (their first major combat operation for the Panther was the Battle of Kursk, starting June 5 that year).
The T-34/85 appears to have had its first short-production testing run in February-March 1944, with the full production run coming later. That's most of a year after the Panther had its combat debut, more than a year since the Panther started coming off the assembly lines, and even more since the Panther was designed. Unless the Germans were seeing the future, there was no T-34/85 for them to build the Panther to defeat.
Neither is the Panther or T-34/85. I was giving you a history lesson, and demonstrating how the Panzer 4 F2/early-G that we have in-game was a stop-gap measure to give the Germans some ability to survive against the T-34/76, until they could get a proper tank built and designed. It was very much as Mekh said; it was re-designed so that the Germans weren't completely outclassed, but it far from being "the tank to beat the T-34."
You remember poorly. The Panther prototype was made in November 1942, while the first of the main production line were assigned in January 1943, (their first major combat operation for the Panther was the Battle of Kursk, starting June 5 that year).
The T-34/85 appears to have had its first short-production testing run in February-March 1944, with the full production run coming later. That's most of a year after the Panther had its combat debut, more than a year since the Panther started coming off the assembly lines, and even more since the Panther was designed. Unless the Germans were seeing the future, there was no T-34/85 for them to build the Panther to defeat.
Panther FTW!
Both thr T34 and P4 have known game issues that have been poured over again and again. Therefor "the tanks need fixxorz!"
Operation Citidel (Kursk offensive) was delayed waiting for ~200 Panthers. Unfortunatly there was a weak link in the drive train which hobbled their impact. Talking about known issues, the Germans never did a factory fix, and as far as I know all versions suffered the same fate of a dead transmissions if pushed. Sooo I guess is what we need for RO2 is some field repairs of our broken armor.
Both thr T34 and P4 have known game issues that have been poured over again and again. Therefor "the tanks need fixxorz!"
Operation Citidel (Kursk offensive) was delayed waiting for ~200 Panthers. Unfortunatly there was a weak link in the drive train which hobbled their impact. Talking about known issues, the Germans never did a factory fix, and as far as I know all versions suffered the same fate of a dead transmissions if pushed. Sooo I guess is what we need for RO2 is some field repairs of our broken armor.
Panzer IV has better optics and a good cupola...I prefer panzer IV for theses mains reasons. Superiority of Panzer IV is not only a question of radio system.
Ok, PhoenixDragon you are rigth.
But PhoenixDragon are wrong when you said T-34/85 appears in early 44.
T34/85 M1943 was created in 43 not in 44.
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''I prefer'' is one thing ''The Panzer was superior'' is another
But right now the cupola in RO2 is not so useful, the periscope is actually better, giving more potential visibility even while being a magnified view. The better optics are better, but that is vastly irrelevant in RO2. What the Panzer IV actually does well is reload faster and have good coax and parax machineguns.
That was the early production run I mentioned for February-March 1944. Despite being ironically named the model 1943, it wasn't produced until '44. That is the earliest production I can find a cite for. I've seen some rumors of a test-run of between 100 and 300 T34/85 M1943s being produced in late 1943, but I can't find any historical cites for that (And it's still roughly a year after the Panther, in any case).
The historical cites I can find make it very unlikely, however. I find information that the initial hull prototypes were not yet made by mid-December, 1943, when the decision was apparently made to start mass production, and I'm not finding any cites of first appearance in combat earlier than a vague "Spring 1944." At this point, though, the exact date is still fairly insignificant.
Uh... What exactly are you calling a "parax" machinegun? There's a coax, and a hull MG, but you're the only one I've ever seen refer to a parax...
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Actually, that was wrong, it's the paraxial, that we refer to as the coaxial, and the hull mg.
Yeah, it's called a coaxial machine-gun. While it's technically paraxial, that's not the term used to refer to them. Nobody commonly refers to it as a paraxial machine-gun, which makes the term rather less useful than the commonly-used one. Kind of like how we call them "tanks," even though that was just a nickname used by the British in order to disguise their development (And nobody still uses their original name: Landships).
The main advantages of the real Pz.IV (G onwards) over the T-34 were the following (most being relevant to performance whilst in actual combat):
> A more powerful and accurate main gun
> Better optics with more accurate range estimation tools and 'on the fly' calibration possibilities
> Better and more accurate gun laying control system (Both the electric & hydraulic turret traverse drives/motors in German tanks were capable of controlled variable speed traverse [A feature only the British seemed to copy])
> Three man turret (Commander, gunner & loader)
> Advanced radio communication & intercom unit
> Better interior ergonomics (turret basket, better positioned controls, more roomy interior, more comfortable seating etc.)
> A more effective defensive armament (Belt fed hull MG with better FOV)
The main disadvantages were:
> Inferior cross country mobility (Slightly improved in late 42)
> Inferior armour protection (Improved in early 43)
> Inferior extreme cold weather operability (Mostly cured in 43)
> Time & cost of manufacture
> More complex to maintain
> A more powerful and accurate main gun
> Better optics with more accurate range estimation tools and 'on the fly' calibration possibilities
> Better and more accurate gun laying control system (Both the electric & hydraulic turret traverse drives/motors in German tanks were capable of controlled variable speed traverse [A feature only the British seemed to copy])
> Three man turret (Commander, gunner & loader)
> Advanced radio communication & intercom unit
> Better interior ergonomics (turret basket, better positioned controls, more roomy interior, more comfortable seating etc.)
> A more effective defensive armament (Belt fed hull MG with better FOV)
The main disadvantages were:
> Inferior cross country mobility (Slightly improved in late 42)
> Inferior armour protection (Improved in early 43)
> Inferior extreme cold weather operability (Mostly cured in 43)
> Time & cost of manufacture
> More complex to maintain
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I haven't seen it mentioned, but one of the main advantages the T34 had over the P4 was it had a deisel engine opposed to gasoline engine. Diesel fuel was easier to come by/produce, and less likely to explode/catch fire, plus reliability factors in. Amazingly, a T34 that was submerged in a lake during the war was pulled out recently and with minor cleaning fired up!
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNJ-acc9Qsk]T34 Tank rescued from the marshland - YouTube[/URL]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNJ-acc9Qsk]T34 Tank rescued from the marshland - YouTube[/URL]
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I suppose I could have, but I meant as in we shall see if it helps balance.
Tbh I dont even play anymore, just kinda lurk the forums.
Tbh I dont even play anymore, just kinda lurk the forums.
Well, I got killed pretty quick a couple times on barashka at close range in a T-34, so I think things are more even now. And I did hit a Pz. IV in the front plates 5 or 6 times with no avail on the bridge.
I'd get killed like that before this latest patch. If anything, the spawn bug fix should go a long way to making things more even. Played about 4 rounds of Barashka, and it was 2 wins for Allies, 2 wins for Axis. Not exactly statistically significant, but it's a good start.
Mmm, I played Barashka twice thus far, once as engineer, and once as a Russian tanker. Personally I found preferred Engi, it was far more exciting.