The MP40/II and MG34 Saddle Drum + Perma Bayonet

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The MP40/II and MG34 Saddle Drum + Perma Bayonet

  • I do NOT want these freely available, Authenticity trumps Balance

    Votes: 161 63.1%
  • I DO want these freely available, Balance trumps Authenticity

    Votes: 58 22.7%
  • I have no opinion.

    Votes: 36 14.1%

  • Total voters
    255

Krazyxazn

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 23, 2009
407
117
0
Hmmm, if I recall correctly there will be new maps(mod tool) after RO 2 launch.

And it will come in handy when the new maps will have the size of RO Berezina. :)

Doesn't Unreal Engine 3 have a map size limit. Might be why we aren't actually seeing big maps. The only way it seems to add long distance fighting is to remove objectives so you can space things out.
 
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Leo4444

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 10, 2006
370
55
0
Las Vegas
A. Balance isen't the issue, historical accuracy is, and many of us would prefer to never see them in the "Realism" mode since they wheren't there (or atleast that realism servers get the option to disable them, and yes, people have found documents that proves the MKb could not have been in Stalingrad, and it goes without saying that extremely rare items like the MP-40/II and Nagant-silencer would not have been issued to frontline troops in an encircled city).

B. This is the Beta, ranking up is very broken and you only got it via a bug. But that's not how it'll work in the full game once fixed, then the weapon will be avalible to the Elite-Rifleman class i belive, of which there is usually 2 permanent slots. But other guns, like the MP-40/II will be even more widely avalible to ranked players.

C. Beta, got it via a bug, see reply to point B above.
Actually I think it will be 3 available to pick the gun because one person can choose whatever they want, the whole random selection crap.
 

Grobut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 1, 2006
3,623
1,310
0
Denmark
What I don't understand: why detatch the bayonnet?

On the Kar-98K, the rifle was sighted in without the bayonet, so adding it would ruin it's accuracy (it has to do with barrel-harmonics, google it if you want to know more).

So Germans have every reason to detach it, their rifle should work best without it, and it should only be usefull in CQB where accuracy isen't an issue anyway (at 10 meters, it shoulden't matter that the sight is ever so slightly off, you'd hit anyway).


On the Mosin, it was sighted in with the Bayonet attached, so removing it should reduce it's accuracy.

However, a Mosin Nagant M91/30 is a very long rifle, noticably longer than the Kar, and it's bayonet is a bloody sword, that thing is HUEG!

It should go without saying then, that a rifle that is longer than most women are tall, is going to be a really unwieldy thing to swing around inside a building, and HoS does have a Weapon-collision system, so that should matter..

Russians then ought to have good reason to detach it before running into a building.
 
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Zoring

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
1,408
155
0
Perth, Western Australia
Ah but regarding barrel harmonics, remember that the Mauser bayonet doesn't actually touch the barrel in any way. In any case that sort of thing is principally an issue over longer range firing, the average firefight being around 400 yards.

When shooting i find the weight of the bayonet far more of an issue and much more apparent than any other factor. Even with the issue of barrel harmonics the i'd say 99% of riflemen's rifles are more accurate than the shooter, especially under fire
 

FBOTheLiuetenant

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 20, 2006
640
104
0
www.righttorule.com
Sadly Grobut the weapon collision system has either been removed or simplified to the point of not noticing. But I would love to be able to de/attache my bayonet manually. Even if it doesn't make any difference to sway/recoil it is one of those little details that I love.
 

Spindle

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 2, 2011
676
374
0
Belgium
Having a bayonet fixed has 2 effects on the rifleman's accuracy

1.) As mentioned above the added weight (even though it is minimal) can cause the shooters arm to tire more rapidly.

2.) The presence of a blade underneath the muzzle of the barrel affects the ballistics of the weapon slightly. When the gaseos explosion trailing the bullet leaves the muzzle some of it hits the blade of the bayonet it will bounce upwards and cause the projectile to wobble slightly a change its trajectory.

The 2nd effect has a very small change in the accuracy of the rifle but when sighting at 100 or more yards small variations are the difference between hitting and missing the target. This is the reason bayonets are not fixed unless there will be trench assault (which were very rare in WW2), used to control prisoners or to poke around (in hay or whatever).
 

Unus Offa Unus Nex

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2010
1,809
525
0
The MKb was a rare prototype, we know for a fact that none ever made it to Stalingrad, it gets even rarer unlockables like the scope, and servers will allow atleast 2 per map by the looks of it, on every map.

We don't know for a fact that none were there or within units stationed just outside of Stalingrad. Acting like we know for fact that none were there is abit too bold and ignorant if you ask me..

Bottom line is that we have to accept that it actually could've been there, which is what matters in this case. It's not like we're getting a weapon that didn't even see service until years later, or on another front. No, what we're getting to play around with is a weapon which was in service at said time on the eastern front, and therefore could've made it to Stalingrad. The exact same applies to the AVT40.

That having been said the biggest problem right now is the permanent unlockables, such as the bayonet, MP40/II etc etc..

1) the Bayonet needs to be unfixable

2) The MP40/II needs to be a hero weapon just like the Mkb42 & AVT40 (max 2 pr. map)
 
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luciferintears

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 3, 2011
1,122
510
0
...and it goes without saying that extremely rare items like the MP-40/II and Nagant-silencer would not have been issued to frontline troops in an encircled city).

items like the MP-40/II and Nagant-silencer

Nagant-silencer



tumblr_l9lgi6vkKr1qzx2fh.gif
 

Grobut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 1, 2006
3,623
1,310
0
Denmark
Actually I think it will be 3 available to pick the gun because one person can choose whatever they want

Sadly Grobut the weapon collision system has either been removed or simplified to the point of not noticing

Ohh yay! More bad news! Just what i allways wanted!

Ohh wait.. :(

We don't know for a fact that none were there or within units stationed just outside of Stalingrad. Acting like we know for fact that none were there is abit too bold and ignorant if you ask me..

Except people have found doccuments that proove they could not possibly have been there..
 

C_Gibby

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 18, 2010
7,220
2,716
0
I'm sitting on the middle ground. I DO think of those extra bits and bobs as being quite fun and should be kept in, yet people who prefer authenticity (which is also me sometimes, depending on my mood) would obviously rather have it so that they weren't there.

I believe that there should be an "authentic" setting for servers that gets rid of the extra bits. :IS2:
 

Grobut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 1, 2006
3,623
1,310
0
Denmark
I'd rather say documents that only 92 were produced during the whole of 1942.

Yup, and that the few build where undergoing trials back in Germany at the time, and where not yet beeing field-tested.


Sorry Unus, but the only reason the MKb is in HoS is because TWI felt it would help them sell the game to a more casual audience, it has nothing to do with realism or historical accuracy, and TWI have publicly admitted as much (in Ramm's "open letter to the community", he states the reason as "it's kewl, and it hasen't been done before, and we're trying to appeal to a wider audience" as the reasons for it's inclusion).

And if you want to see the doccumnets, then you'll have to find that huge thread that went down when the gun was annouced for the game, i honestly can't be bothered sifting through that behemoth of a thread again.

I'm sitting on the middle ground. I DO think of those extra bits and bobs as being quite fun and should be kept in, yet people who prefer authenticity (which is also me sometimes, depending on my mood) would obviously rather have it so that they weren't there.

I believe that there should be an "authentic" setting for servers that gets rid of the extra bits. :IS2:
That would solve the entire issue right there, and is precisely what many of us have been suggesting for a very long time now.

Keep the silly stuff, it's just fine for the Arcade mode, but don't give us an allmost carbon-copy of the Arcade mode with a few HUD changes, and call that the "Realism" mode, that's just pointless, and fails to deliver on the promises made to the RO community in the early days of the game's development.
 
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Nimsky

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
4,190
945
0
Elitist Prick Nude Beach
Forget it. TWI have made a decision; balance and drawing in a new crowd is now more important than realism and authenticity. As it stands, RO2 has no realism mode. Sad but true. Maybe TWI will decide to add a Classic mode in the future? I doubt it, Ramm has stated that there are currently no plans for a game mode like that. I hate to sound pessimistic but as of now that seems to be the reality.

Luckily we still have mods. :-|
 
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Unus Offa Unus Nex

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2010
1,809
525
0
I'd rather say documents that only 92 were produced during the whole of 1942.

Well, if it can be proven that no more than 92 had been produced up until February 1943 then I'd like to see it.

Most sources state that a small batch were sent for field testing in Nov 42. As for which units recieved these few weapons, I don't know, but that it could've been a unit stationed at or near Stalingrad I don't see as unrealistic.
 

luciferintears

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 3, 2011
1,122
510
0
I believe that there should be an "authentic" setting for servers that gets rid of the extra bits. :IS2:

there is a setting which disallows unlocks but that doesnt solve anything.

the ppsh will be stuck with the magazine rather than the drum