I just pick the best ping server with the map I want. I don't care about difficulty at all.
The Killing Floor Babysitters
- Thread starter noupperlobeman
- Start date
Fair enough. Let me correct an oversight on my part by attaching your OP in it's entirety.
noupperlobeman said:
I did read your first post several times before electing to reply. In it's relationship with the second paragraph, I originally took that third paragraph in the following context:
I dismiss your excuses of helping a friend, searching for potential clan recruits, or to help out newbies as being invalid. To all Level 6 players found on Normal servers: Don't you dare interfere with my game.
Or something similar. As some time has elapsed, and I have had the opportunity to reread your post yet again on yet a different day, perhaps you intended the third paragraph to have a context similar to:
I'm not speaking about those Level 6 players whose presence on a Normal server might be to help a friend, search for potential clan recruits, or to help out newbies. But, to all of those guilty of what I'm about to indicate next, please do not offer your help unless requested.
I do realize, that this is the Killing Floor Forums, and not a venue for the discussion of English usage. (Which is quite fortunate for me, as I am ill-equipped to participate in such an exercise.) Suffice to say, If you tell me that I have misinterpreted your post, I'm more than willing to accept your word for that as fact, and offer my apologies. I do apologize.
Moving on, I would submit to my fellow forum members something I believe is not only true, but something in which we all might agree. Namely, that bad KF players can be any level, any perk, and can be found on any difficulty of server. If one accepts that as true, and, of course, no one is obligated to do so, is there really any need to persist in this constant "us versus them" mindset that permeates this community? To carve out yet another faction complete with it's own personal nemesis?
And, to be clear, by "bad player," I am most definitely *NOT* referring to perceived skill or ability; rather, I am referring to those who knowingly and deliberately disrupt or spoil a game. To those lacking the basic courtesy that constitutes good sportsmanship. Witnessing the in-game berating and belittlement of players that others have arbitrarily determined to be below their lofty standards simply sickens me. I refuse to be a part of it, either within the game or within these forums. Since I am only human, if anyone catches me doing so, please don't fail to bring it to my attention.
Finally, I have read with interest the reasoning and rationalization that some have offered as to why they, or some other Level 6 player, might be observed on a Normal server. And, all of that is perfectly fine. Since I can only speak for myself, let me take this opportunity to point out that no one need feel obligated to offer me any such explanation. That would be due to my belief that, unless you're behaving like a total jackass, it isn't really any of my damned business.
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I'm intrigued by this "divide" that is believed to exist and/or be growing in the community. In this thread, I have only seen complaints about particular players that are not holding up our "intended spirit" of the game. While players are always open to play our games in whatever ways are possible without direct punishment, we did not intend for high level players to prance around low level games taking all the kills. We also didn't intend for players to exploit locations on maps where the specimens are unable to reach them. I would put both of these actions as detracting from the game's experience for other players, as the game was intended to be about barely surviving one or more waves in a game.
Once again, I'm not trying to tell people how they are supposed to play the game, but I do believe players have a right to complain about and/or vote kick these players without being labeled as elitists or being seen as creating a divide within the community.
If I am wrong or have misunderstood something, please let me know, as I am entirely open to the possibility of me being wrong(happens all the time
).
Once again, I'm not trying to tell people how they are supposed to play the game, but I do believe players have a right to complain about and/or vote kick these players without being labeled as elitists or being seen as creating a divide within the community.
If I am wrong or have misunderstood something, please let me know, as I am entirely open to the possibility of me being wrong(happens all the time
).Now that must lead to some interesting "why are you on Beginner?" moments
It mostly ends up with me dropping money in a line that leads people away from their group to the other end of the map.
LAR + Hunting shotgun with priest dude skin as a firebug. It never ends well if I somehow end up in Beginner.
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I'm intrigued by this "divide" that is believed to exist and/or be growing in the community. In this thread, I have only seen complaints about particular players that are not holding up our "intended spirit" of the game. While players are always open to play our games in whatever ways are possible without direct punishment, we did not intend for high level players to prance around low level games taking all the kills. We also didn't intend for players to exploit locations on maps where the specimens are unable to reach them. I would put both of these actions as detracting from the game's experience for other players, as the game was intended to be about barely surviving one or more waves in a game.
Once again, I'm not trying to tell people how they are supposed to play the game, but I do believe players have a right to complain about and/or vote kick these players without being labeled as elitists or being seen as creating a divide within the community.
If I am wrong or have misunderstood something, please let me know, as I am entirely open to the possibility of me being wrong(happens all the time
While the complaint within this thread does indeed regard the matter of Level 6 players abusing a Normal difficulty server, would this same type of behaviour be any less wrong if the offenders were Level 5? If not, how about Level 4? True, it might be significantly more difficult for a Level 4-ranked player to unfairly dominate the battlefield, (the offense under consideration, here), but, I'll wager there are some reading this and saying to themselves, "Hell, yes, I could go completely nuclear on a Normal server as a Level 4! If I wanted to..." And, I would submit to all that this would be as equally wrong.
So, it strikes me that the defining and common characteristic of these offenders is *not* their rank within a given perk, but rather, their behaviour.
As such, I don't believe it is in our interest to villify an entire subset of the community for an offense that probably relatively few are guilty of. In other words, condemn the individual, and *not* the level or perk of that individual. I'm not trying to be snarky when I say that I don't think I can make it any plainer than that.
It would be unfortunate if, after reading this thread, someone would enter a game on a Normal server, see that there are a couple of Level 6 players present, and be predisposed to interpret any misstep on their part as an attempt to take unfair advantage, when it was nothing more than a normal reaction to the chaos of a typical game.
Personally, this doesn't seem to me to be a moderation issue. Nor, does it seem like a developer issue. Rather, I feel it is just the need to accept that while the overwhelming number of KF players one encounters online are good people, there will undoubtedly be a few jerks. And, fouling the reputation of decent players who hold a similar level or use a similar perk as these jerks seems to me to be entirely unfair, and, in any case, will *not* make them go away...
I thank you for your time. And, for a game I enjoy.
I'll play any server however I like.
Deal with it.
Deal with it.
I'm intrigued by this "divide" that is believed to exist and/or be growing in the community. In this thread, I have only seen complaints about particular players that are not holding up our "intended spirit" of the game. While players are always open to play our games in whatever ways are possible without direct punishment, we did not intend for high level players to prance around low level games taking all the kills. We also didn't intend for players to exploit locations on maps where the specimens are unable to reach them. I would put both of these actions as detracting from the game's experience for other players, as the game was intended to be about barely surviving one or more waves in a game.
Once again, I'm not trying to tell people how they are supposed to play the game, but I do believe players have a right to complain about and/or vote kick these players without being labeled as elitists or being seen as creating a divide within the community.
If I am wrong or have misunderstood something, please let me know, as I am entirely open to the possibility of me being wrong(happens all the time
You're playing with fire there.
I'm intrigued by this "divide" that is believed to exist and/or be growing in the community. In this thread, I have only seen complaints about particular players that are not holding up our "intended spirit" of the game. While players are always open to play our games in whatever ways are possible without direct punishment, we did not intend for high level players to prance around low level games taking all the kills. We also didn't intend for players to exploit locations on maps where the specimens are unable to reach them. I would put both of these actions as detracting from the game's experience for other players, as the game was intended to be about barely surviving one or more waves in a game.
Once again, I'm not trying to tell people how they are supposed to play the game, but I do believe players have a right to complain about and/or vote kick these players without being labeled as elitists or being seen as creating a divide within the community.
If I am wrong or have misunderstood something, please let me know, as I am entirely open to the possibility of me being wrong(happens all the time
See now you've actually rather intrigued me. Allow me to play devils advocate in a way. I am aware this is going to come off to some as well to be blunt dickish however its rare indeed I have a chance to ask a developer this question and I don't mean it in a bad way.
This comes mostly from my experiences in other games but I've had this in KF as well. Are not the servers hosted privately by a company other then Tripwire? I mean I am sure there are default servers maintained by Tripwire or through a company Tripwire uses or even Steam uses. But a goodly number of servers are player rented and hosted yes?
I'm of the belief that if I have paid for the game I have a right to play the game. Now civility isn't assured in anyway but its a bit of a common sense thing. You don't buy shoes to throw them at random people just as you don't play on online game to ruin other peoples fun. Regardless of that.
Once you and/or a group of people rent a server, it is your right to play how you want on that server? The 'intended spirit' of the game as you said no longer factoring in. I am paying for my place to play and my game to play. It would really be none of Tripwire's business what goes on on that server so long as it happens on -that- server.
Which I suppose brings me to my point. Tripwire as a company or developers shouldn't have any real caring what so ever that happens on those servers you agree? It is the responsibility of those servers renters to police the server how they see fit and the lack of them doing it is the problem.
Otherwise what is the point indeed of renting a server?
You can act and do whatever you want ON your server, that is correct. Most admins don't behave like dicks tho because then their servers wont last very long.
Seriously, if you are lvl 6 and you play on a normal server and solo the entire waves WHILE low lvls are present then you ruin the experience for those guys.
Man we are a small community in KF, The Ball and RO, it should be in every ones interest to make this community and therefor the playing experience better especially if there are people there who are new.
Seriously, if you are lvl 6 and you play on a normal server and solo the entire waves WHILE low lvls are present then you ruin the experience for those guys.
Man we are a small community in KF, The Ball and RO, it should be in every ones interest to make this community and therefor the playing experience better especially if there are people there who are new.
I completely agree with you that such a blanket view of a particular level/perk would be wrong. I also agree that it would definitely divide the community into an "us vs them", but the vast majority of people on this forum are level 6 themselves in multiple Perks. So, I guess what I'm saying is that I haven't seen this outcasting of particular levels nor perks as a community/forum wide phenomena, but rather as isolated threads against individuals and/or groups that are actually trying to ruin the experience of others. I hope I'm not offending anyone here, I'm not trying to start some argument with members of the community, I'm just trying to discuss and better understand the division of the community.
That's correct, most of the servers are hosted by groups of players and/or individual players.
I disagree, there are a number of people that only find online games fun when they're ruining other players' experiences. But if you are hosting your own server, you can do whatever you want...this whole thread is discussing what non-admins do on public servers that they do not own.
Absolutely correct. Any owner of any server will always be able to play the game as they see fit. When players are playing on servers when no admin is present, however, we are concerned with the potential for players being able to ruin the gameplay experience of others. This is why vote kick is enabled by default, there are no block mutators on the Whitelist, and we try to fix all the exploits on any map we've released(though every time we fix some, players find new, less obvious ones).
Indeed, we hope that anyone running a public server has a sufficient number of admins(or the correct set of mutators turned on) to keep the server free from disruptive players. This, though, seems to be the current issue, as it's tough for admins to be in all of their servers frequently, and it's also tough for them to trust others to be admins on their servers. And all the mutators in the world couldn't replace the ultimate authority of having an admin present, they only help. Which is why these high level players stealing kills is a common theme in lower difficulty servers.
yeah exactly, try admining 20+ servers at once (we used to have 40 but it ate up too much resources, cause we have other games on the server too)
fortunately we dont see too much of this kind of thing happening though, the only servers we have to keep a constant eye on are our FF servers.
fortunately we dont see too much of this kind of thing happening though, the only servers we have to keep a constant eye on are our FF servers.
Trust me I am aware of the difficulty of admining multiple servers. Ensuring people are trustworthy that have access and those kinds of deals Ro it can be a nightmare in a half shell. (Hurrah for getting old.)
And thank you Xienen. Tis rather nice to hear that. Actually we don't really disagree on the ruining gameplay more then I poorly worded it. It is indeed a common sense thing and everyone is aware the world has more then a few people that lack common sense just as more then a few people lack the good graces to enjoy an online game without destroying other peoples enjoyment.
As I said originally its rare indeed I get to ask a developer such a question and I apologize if I am slightly off topic. Doing such basic things as you said makes perfect sense. I hope that helped head off some other server owners from catching some flak. As I've said before a group of us really just play for fun, hard mostly these days and a few of use indeed have level 6 perks. Its discouraging to think that even the developers would frown on us enjoying the game as we do on a server we rent.
I am rather glad to hear that is not the case.
And thank you Xienen. Tis rather nice to hear that. Actually we don't really disagree on the ruining gameplay more then I poorly worded it. It is indeed a common sense thing and everyone is aware the world has more then a few people that lack common sense just as more then a few people lack the good graces to enjoy an online game without destroying other peoples enjoyment.
As I said originally its rare indeed I get to ask a developer such a question and I apologize if I am slightly off topic. Doing such basic things as you said makes perfect sense. I hope that helped head off some other server owners from catching some flak. As I've said before a group of us really just play for fun, hard mostly these days and a few of use indeed have level 6 perks. Its discouraging to think that even the developers would frown on us enjoying the game as we do on a server we rent.
I am rather glad to hear that is not the case.
I thought I was clear at first, but upon review of my o.p. I believe my message came off a little garbled. I'll do some clarifying:
A sub level six perk going out of their way to achieve max kills/damage would be far more acceptable for one simple fact: they actually gain something from doing so. Sure it may be a dick move, but at least they have the need to level up as some sort of excuse. A level six player doesn't even have that, and is taking away from people who are trying to level up.
I'm not speaking out against all level 6 players in normal servers. I'm speaking out against the abusive ones (which I only sort of made clear in m o.p., my bad). I have every right to "vilify" this group of people because they step outside of what is considered acceptable behavior. Its what society does. We take the people that are disrupting the way we wish our world to work and make them known, and in some cases punish them.
Far too slippery slope for my taste, but I will respond:
Like I said above: it was a bit sketchy, but I was clearly not aiming my post at all level 6 perks. Its not my fault if someone were to misinterpret my message and take it out on the community. That would be like blaming Muslims as a whole for the acts of terrorism Islamic extremists sometimes commit.
I'm going to sum it all up in two sentences (which will be added to my op):
The killing floor babysitters I speak of are the level six perks that purposely dominate normal difficulty servers for no good reason. I am not speaking out against all level 6 players, or any level six players that are in normal servers for reasons other than being abusive.
I know the post wasn't aimed at me, but it worked for a good launching point for me to re-clarify what I was trying to say.
A sub level six perk going out of their way to achieve max kills/damage would be far more acceptable for one simple fact: they actually gain something from doing so. Sure it may be a dick move, but at least they have the need to level up as some sort of excuse. A level six player doesn't even have that, and is taking away from people who are trying to level up.
I'm not speaking out against all level 6 players in normal servers. I'm speaking out against the abusive ones (which I only sort of made clear in m o.p., my bad). I have every right to "vilify" this group of people because they step outside of what is considered acceptable behavior. Its what society does. We take the people that are disrupting the way we wish our world to work and make them known, and in some cases punish them.
Far too slippery slope for my taste, but I will respond:
Like I said above: it was a bit sketchy, but I was clearly not aiming my post at all level 6 perks. Its not my fault if someone were to misinterpret my message and take it out on the community. That would be like blaming Muslims as a whole for the acts of terrorism Islamic extremists sometimes commit.
I'm going to sum it all up in two sentences (which will be added to my op):
The killing floor babysitters I speak of are the level six perks that purposely dominate normal difficulty servers for no good reason. I am not speaking out against all level 6 players, or any level six players that are in normal servers for reasons other than being abusive.
I know the post wasn't aimed at me, but it worked for a good launching point for me to re-clarify what I was trying to say.
Ugh, normal. I'm constantly having to play with new people, and hard is just a bit too extreme for someone new, without a babysitter (which I refuse to do). Usually the first waves are demo or something similar with a machete, and the latter as anything with weak weapons. Sharp with 9mm, commando with bullpup, support with a pump-action.. demo and firebug are devastating on low difficulties even with a low perk level, so I tend to avoid them altogether.
Even then, I try not to kill stuff that would die before reaching me anyway. Mainly just kiting zeds in small spaces or getting them confused. Sadly it's very hard not to "score" the highest kills.
Even then, I try not to kill stuff that would die before reaching me anyway. Mainly just kiting zeds in small spaces or getting them confused. Sadly it's very hard not to "score" the highest kills.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say by way of this thread... I have only one level 6 perk but Im annoyed when my friends want to play on hard, let alone on normal, I don't think I'd play with them.
But I'm not the majority and it has to fall on administration of individual servers to keep high level perks from abusing low level difficulties, should they choose to label what you are talking about as "abuse".
But I'm not the majority and it has to fall on administration of individual servers to keep high level perks from abusing low level difficulties, should they choose to label what you are talking about as "abuse".
That hurt, Jester.
I still play on Normal and if I hadn't reset my perks a week ago, I would be one of those level 6 players playing on Normal.
But I do it because I like to coach--well I sort of yell at people but that's their fault for not listening-- newbies.
...
And I can't play on Hard because most of the European servers I can find are full of...
...
..Well, retards. No offense to anyone.
