The katana and AK feedback and questions thread.

[Benjamin]

high damage per second

This is not necessarily a good thing.

As far as I remember you don't actually have to do any damage to the head to remove it, just hit it (if you modify a weapon to do zero damage you'll see what I mean).

You have to be careful with high DPS weapons as if you fail to decapitate it and deal it too much damage it will rage.

 

[ItsJono]

Love the Katana, Love the AK-47 but dislike it's skin with a stubby muzzle/barrel.

 

[Sammers]

First off, this is going to sound like(or be) a huge rant, but I don't really intend people to understand or agree or do anything, you can make what you want of it.

I hate beserkers that use Katanas. I match up the Chainsaw and the Katana in every aspect for the Beserker and reach the same conclusion; the chainsaw is better.
1) The sole, one advantage that the Katana has is it's running speed, though that in itself isn't much of an advantage. Sure the Chainsaw slows you down, but that's what the Beserker has a speed increase for, right?
2) The Katana's primary attack speed is fast, decent power, good for small specimens. The Chainsaw's primary attack speed is at around mach 10, and though each hit does less damage, the damage per second is far higher and better for smaller specimens. The Katana's Secondary attack is about the same speed as, if not slower than, the Chainsaw's secondary attack. In fact, I'd say the Chainsaw's secondary is around about the speed of the Katana's primary. Anyway, point being, the Chainsaw attacks and hits faster.
3) People argue that the Katana is roughly the same power, if only a tiny bit worse than the Chainsaw. Fair enough, if you're not a beserker, because due to the damage increase being a percentage, the higher your beserker level goes, the bigger this difference in damage becomes. Think about it; if Katana's stock power was 9 and Chainsaw's was 10(example values only) and there was a 50% increase in damage, Katana would end up at around 14(rounded up by 0.5, too) and the Chainsaw would be at 15(not rounded at all). Now when you bump it up to the level 5's 100% damage increase, Katana sits at 18 and the Chainsaw at 20. The difference increases, making the Chainsaw more powerful at level 5 than the Katana. Simple mathematics.
4) While a valid argument, this last argument hits me as being incredibly lame; "Katana only weighs 3 spaces." And? Why would you trade a powerful weapon, for a slightly less powerful weapon that allows you to hold one extra, near-useless weapon with no perk benefits added. You can already hold 9mm, handcannons, lever-action rifle, bullpup or an AK alongside the Chainsaw.....given the chance, would you rather have two of these weapons to attack crawlers and sirens with at a cost to your primary weapon's effectiveness, instead of only one? I know I wouldn't. Less weight isn't an advantage, only the running speed.

So yeah, I hate beserkers that use Katanas, since they're better suited to the Chainsaw. However the katana is a prime tool to be used by another perk, where space does indeed need to be saved for a more useful, perk benefitting, primary weapon. And I know some Ninja-loving Katana fans may want to remove my head for dissing their Katana-wielding beserker antics, but the way I see it, they should be thanking me for presenting many reasons why the Katana might not need nerfed at all; people just need to see that holding those extra weapons, while sacrificing their main source of strength, isn't much of an improvement for a Beserker.

 

[WarWithTostitos]

Stuff

Bravo.

As level 5 commando, I drop the bullpup completely around wave 5 or 6 (long), pack an AK and a katana. Katana is far better suited for non-berserker perks that lack way of easily defeating the big guys, namely scrakes and FP's. Less weight = more room for perk-related weapons. 'Nuff said.


Although I should add, that as a berserker, I totally use a katana because I hate using the chainsaw as my primary weapon.

 

[Benjamin]

Chainsaw: A big heavy weapon capable of dishing out serious damage, and a useful weapon for pretty much any perk if you aim for the head.

Katana: Fun.

Also, the low weight of the Katana is an advantage, at least to me - I now carry a Katana, Dual Handcannons, and AK47.

 

[Crusher]

Being a level 5 support is fun, I use the Hunthing shotgun/AK comba and the katana if I have the money for it. Most of the time I use the AK to kill lone specimen and to piss off scrakes, and the HS to obliterate large groups and to kill the scrake when he charges, and the Katana when the wave is almost over and I want to spare some ammo, because most of the time it costs around 500 to resupply, sometimes even a 1000 when I can't find any ammo boxes. I play on hard only.

 

[Skunkee]

First off, this is going to sound like(or be) a huge rant, but I don't really intend people to understand or agree or do anything, you can make what you want of it.

I hate beserkers that use Katanas. I match up the Chainsaw and the Katana in every aspect for the Beserker and reach the same conclusion; the chainsaw is better.
1) The sole, one advantage that the Katana has is it's running speed, though that in itself isn't much of an advantage. Sure the Chainsaw slows you down, but that's what the Beserker has a speed increase for, right?
2) The Katana's primary attack speed is fast, decent power, good for small specimens. The Chainsaw's primary attack speed is at around mach 10, and though each hit does less damage, the damage per second is far higher and better for smaller specimens. The Katana's Secondary attack is about the same speed as, if not slower than, the Chainsaw's secondary attack. In fact, I'd say the Chainsaw's secondary is around about the speed of the Katana's primary. Anyway, point being, the Chainsaw attacks and hits faster.
3) People argue that the Katana is roughly the same power, if only a tiny bit worse than the Chainsaw. Fair enough, if you're not a beserker, because due to the damage increase being a percentage, the higher your beserker level goes, the bigger this difference in damage becomes. Think about it; if Katana's stock power was 9 and Chainsaw's was 10(example values only) and there was a 50% increase in damage, Katana would end up at around 14(rounded up by 0.5, too) and the Chainsaw would be at 15(not rounded at all). Now when you bump it up to the level 5's 100% damage increase, Katana sits at 18 and the Chainsaw at 20. The difference increases, making the Chainsaw more powerful at level 5 than the Katana. Simple mathematics.
4) While a valid argument, this last argument hits me as being incredibly lame; "Katana only weighs 3 spaces." And? Why would you trade a powerful weapon, for a slightly less powerful weapon that allows you to hold one extra, near-useless weapon with no perk benefits added. You can already hold 9mm, handcannons, lever-action rifle, bullpup or an AK alongside the Chainsaw.....given the chance, would you rather have two of these weapons to attack crawlers and sirens with at a cost to your primary weapon's effectiveness, instead of only one? I know I wouldn't. Less weight isn't an advantage, only the running speed.

So yeah, I hate beserkers that use Katanas, since they're better suited to the Chainsaw. However the katana is a prime tool to be used by another perk, where space does indeed need to be saved for a more useful, perk benefitting, primary weapon. And I know some Ninja-loving Katana fans may want to remove my head for dissing their Katana-wielding beserker antics, but the way I see it, they should be thanking me for presenting many reasons why the Katana might not need nerfed at all; people just need to see that holding those extra weapons, while sacrificing their main source of strength, isn't much of an improvement for a Beserker.

Try playing with me some time. I'll show you that the katana can be every bit as good as the chainsaw, if not better. At least in my hands

 

[Skunkee]

Chainsaw: A big heavy weapon capable of dishing out serious damage, and a useful weapon for pretty much any perk if you aim for the head.

Katana: Fun.

Also, the low weight of the Katana is an advantage, at least to me - I now carry a Katana, Dual Handcannons, and AK47.

Drop it down to 1 handcannon. So much more accurate. You also don't get any extra ammunition from having 2.

 

[Benjamin]

Drop it down to 1 handcannon. So much more accurate.

Speak for yourself, I can hit targets at a pretty good range with dual handcannons.

Of course, I mostly use them as a backup in close situations, so the accuracy isn't so important. Having double the rate of fire (and twice as many rounds before having to reload) is great when having to finish off Scrakes.

 

[Sammers]

Try playing with me some time. I'll show you that the katana can be every bit as good as the chainsaw, if not better. At least in my hands

Though I beg to differ, I'll happily play alongside you. Don't get me wrong, there are one or two incredibly scarse situations where the Katana's run speed can be invaluble, but it's shadowed in every other way.

Bravo.

As level 5 commando, I drop the bullpup completely around wave 5 or 6 (long), pack an AK and a katana. Katana is far better suited for non-berserker perks that lack way of easily defeating the big guys, namely scrakes and FP's. Less weight = more room for perk-related weapons. 'Nuff said.


Although I should add, that as a berserker, I totally use a katana because I hate using the chainsaw as my primary weapon.

Hey, if you're just messing about and simply want the novelty of using a Katana, be my guest, but the Chainsaw should(and pretty much does) remain the serious business for getting stuff done when/if you're struggling.

 

[Nanostrike]

The problem with the Katana is that everyone refuses to believe that they may very well be MORE effective with the Chainsaw than with it simply because they LIKE the Katana more...

Even most of my friends that I like to play with refused to see it. They're amazing berserkers with the Chainsaw, but when the get the Katana, they SUCK. They can't hold a line, they can't shield allies, they get surrounded easily, ect. It's like a combo of someone putting a stupid helment on them and them suddenly losing all teamwork skills... They refuse to accept it, too, despite the fact that when they use the Chainsaw, they consistantly get MORE kills and the team always survives. Yeah, it's more fun to run around and chop things than to stand in one general area and be a wall of death, but it's not more effective for the team. There are a lot of classes that can dish out the same damage you're running up to do from a distance, and all you're really doing is blocking their shots. There are exceptions to this (Taking down Skrakes, for example), but for the most part, if you're just running from target to target melee'ing things, you could be doing more use to your team as another perk, such as Sharpshooter or Support, that can do the same damage at a distance.

It really comes down to the fact that despite what EVERYONE seems to think, the Katana simply can't even touch the Chainsaw's rate of fire. That allows a 'Zerker to strafe while enemies are charging and put several in their 'stun' animations, which can last upwards of 3 seconds for some (Gorefast in particular). While the enemies are stunned, not only do they block other enemies, but they're easy targets for teammates to finish, or for that matter, for the Berserker to finish at his leisure.

I can't tell you how annoying it is when a Katana Zerker decides that they can hold the line like they could with a Chainsaw. The amount of Crawlers, Gorefasts, and Stalkers that slip through between Katana strikes is staggering and will quickly allow most formations to break on Hard and up. Unfortunately, unless they do something to change this, this'll keep happening, too...

 

[Sammers]

The problem with the Katana is that everyone refuses to believe that they may very well be MORE effective with the Chainsaw than with it simply because they LIKE the Katana more...

Exactly right...exactly.....

I feel we can understand each other here...

 

[Monolithos]

This is not necessarily a good thing.

Agreed. (enrage them are often a bad thing), but berserkers take more damage than others and they also dish out so much melee damage that if they DO NOT decap they might actually kill it before they die themselves (they also attack faster with melee weapons).

For non-berserkers, i agree that bullpup is the better weapon

 

[Kylegdaddy]

The problem with the Katana is that everyone refuses to believe that they may very well be MORE effective with the Chainsaw than with it simply because they LIKE the Katana more...

Perfectly worded.

I think Nanostrike and Sammers pretty much hit the nail on the head. I was skeptical on the Katana before its release and my feelings haven't changed much after toying with it. As a berserker, I find the chainsaw to be much more effective. I agree that people using the Katana over the chainsaw are doing so for grins or because they like it better and won't accept that it isn't as good as the chainsaw for all around usage. The light weight just doesn't make up for the constant attack speed/line holding power of the chainsaw.

The Katana is great for non-berserkers, though, but I think most people currently using it are just Katana fans.

 

[Monolithos]

1) Katana has ... running speed

This great when you need to kite around so you don't get boxed in (speed is what make medics so great at kiting). Speed is also great when you need to rush a siren or a bloat and take them out before they hurt - without falling back on team members or a ranged backup weapon. Or when you want to sidestep a crawler and then kill it after it land without taking damage.

2) ...the Chainsaw's secondary attack...

Then again - Katana primary attack stun scrakes. It is faster than chainsaw secondary attack (that also stun scrakes). This let you backpaddle while still keeping scrake from attacking - using primary attack from the katana...

...Simple mathematics...

If katana is 5% stronger than a chainsaw for non-berserkers it will still be 5% stronger than a chainsaw for level 5 berserkers. That is also simple mathematics...

4) ...Why would you trade ... for a ... weapon that allows you to hold one extra ... weapon...

Katana let you equip crossbow. Crossbow one-shot kill multiple crawlers or sirens, even when they are behind other zombies.

Chainsaw is better when you, and your team, hold your ground at a doorway/staircase while zombies zerg you - think the u-shaped room in bioticslab or the upper side of the middle staircase on office. It also decap fleshpounds that are after you easier than katana (but that it is only a matter of practice). Crawling around with the loud Chainsaw is boring but efficient.

Katana is better when you, and/or your team, is on the move - on open maps - think london or farm. The speed you have when wielding Katana is better when you hunt down an enraged fleshpound or scrake going after your team members. Running around with Katana is fun and efficent (this is perhaps the strongest argument to use Katana as a Berserker)

AND - as a berserker you can buy BOTH, even at up to 60% discount. This let you switch between them so you can ignore weaknesses and utilize the strengths of both weapons

As I see it you have quite a few viable combos:
- Chainsaw (when holding ground, being swarmed or need to decap fp) + Katana (for everything else. You must have room and time to charge/sidestep sirens/crawlers - or take them out with 9mm).
- Chainsaw + handcannon(s) (for crawlers and sirens)
- Katana + Bullpup (decap fp) + handcannon(s) (for crawlers and sirens when you dont have room to sidestep/charge them)
- Katana + Crossbow (one-shot multiple crawlers and sirens even if behind other zombies - at later waves you need to know how to one-attack-decap fps)
- Only Katana (4/15g) (for super speed. you must have room and time to charge/sidestep sirens/crawlers - or take them out with 9mm - and at later waves you need to know how to one-attack-decap fps).

On tight maps with corridors and corners such as office and to some extent bioticslab I'd say chainsaw+katana work best for me. On open maps where you can sidestep, kite and time your attacks such as farm and to some extent london I'd say katana+bullpup+handcannon works best for me.

Eventually, when I practiced to one-attack-decap fps with the katana, I will probably switch to Katana+Crossbow or Katana-and-nothing-else as my standard Berserker outfit on all maps.

... I think most people currently using it are just Katana fans.

I think most berserkers use Katana because hit n run is a really fun play style. Before patch there were a lot of berserker and medics that used Fire Axe for the same reason. They are also fed up with the constant chainsaw sound and the fact you move so slow that your team members kill your targets before you reach them. The Katana has weaknesses, so do chainsaw, but Katana is fast, powerful and fun to play with - chainsaw is "only" powerful.

 

[Benjamin]

Katana let you equip crossbow. Crossbow one-shot kill multiple crawlers or sirens, even when they are behind other zombies.

Sounds efficient if you can line up several hundred for each shot.

Thinking about it, the Chainsaw and Katana separate the berserker role into two roles - 'attack' and 'defense'. The Katana gives you the speed to run around taking out the dangerous things, while the Chainsaw allows you to hold your ground against large groups of enemies, and protect the team in doing so.

Or, you could think of it as 'light' and 'heavy'. The light berserker can move very fast but has less damage output (where larger groups of enemies are concerned), whereas the heavy berserker is less agile but can hand out a great deal of damage.

 

[Monolithos]

Sounds efficient if you can line up several hundred for each shot.

You can normaly kill one to four crawlers or one siren per bolt. You have 40 bolts. You normaly dont need to kill more than maybe 5 sirens and 30 crawlers in any given wave.

The power is that you can take out sirens and crawlers even when they are behind some gorefasts and clots. Handcannon have a slight penetration, so it can actually kill a crawler even if behind a single zombie (such as a clots) but xbow bots pretty much penetrate any number of zombies and one-shot kill all crawlers it touch.

Normal scenaorio on an open map: You are solo with two-three sirens behind a pack of clots, gorefasts, a scrake, some crawlers and maybe a bloat or two.

Normal tactic for a chainsaw berserker is to pick off zombies that are far enough away from the sirens (mostly crawlers and some gorefasts). Kite around the map with the knife for quite a long time before getting clear shots at some of the sirens. Trying to take them out with 9mm or handcannons. Once they are finally dead though - rest of the swarm die fast (basically run through them as a berserker).

With a crossbow you can kill all sirens and crawlers first and then just rush through the swarm with ease, in the process slicing everything up in tiny bits.

Not as powerful in close quarters where you often can utilitize corners or stairs to take out sirens and crawlers (no need for handcannon or xbow there - might as well have just chainsaw and/or katana).

the Chainsaw and Katana separate the berserker role into two roles - 'attack' and 'defense'.

Agreed.

(attack is also a form of defense if used correct)

 

[Benjamin]

With a crossbow you can kill all sirens and crawlers first and then just rush through the swarm with ease, in the process slicing everything up in tiny bits.

That's a good point actually.

 

[Wolfdust]

Thinking about it, the Chainsaw and Katana separate the berserker role into two roles - 'attack' and 'defense'.

Pretty much this.

When I play 'Zerker I play full on Zerker. Chainsaw and Katana, my sole ranged weapon being my 9mm. Katana for getting to places and hacking up stragglers. Chainsaw for diving into a horde and coming out the other side covered in gore.

 

[Sammers]

Jeez, why do so many people find it so difficult to believe?

This great when you need to kite around so you don't get boxed in (speed is what make medics so great at kiting). Speed is also great when you need to rush a siren or a bloat and take them out before they hurt - without falling back on team members or a ranged backup weapon. Or when you want to sidestep a crawler and then kill it after it land without taking damage.

Then be a medic and use the Katana...
Situations like those are exactly why you buy a backup weapon, so you'd be as well use it.

Then again - Katana primary attack stun scrakes. It is faster than chainsaw secondary attack (that also stun scrakes). This let you backpaddle while still keeping scrake from attacking - using primary attack from the katana...

The Katana is fast enough to do this without perk bonus'. The Chainsaw with perk bonus' is also fast enough to do it. As soon as you're fast enough to pull it off, further extra attack speed wont help one bit, instead just pull off the exact same effect.

If katana is 5% stronger than a chainsaw for non-berserkers it will still be 5% stronger than a chainsaw for level 5 berserkers. That is also simple mathematics...

Well done, exactly what I said, except you seem to have trouble understanding that 5% of the Katana's original attack is lower than 5% of the Chainsaw's original attack power, meaning that the higher the percentage, the bigger the gap increase. Level 5 Chainsaw is mor epowerful than level 5 Katana. Lern 2 Math.

Katana let you equip crossbow. Crossbow one-shot kill multiple crawlers or sirens, even when they are behind other zombies.

I advise you play as a Sharpshooter with a Katana then. If you have a ranged weapon good enough to kill every problem that the Beserker faces, you wont need to be a Beserker to succeed.

Katana is better when you, and/or your team, is on the move - on open maps - think london or farm. The speed you have when wielding Katana is better when you hunt down an enraged fleshpound or scrake going after your team members. Running around with Katana is fun and efficent (this is perhaps the strongest argument to use Katana as a Berserker)

You feel the need to repeat the Katana's only strength?

AND - as a berserker you can buy BOTH, even at up to 60% discount. This let you switch between them so you can ignore weaknesses and utilize the strengths of both weapons

That renders your Crossbow argument completely pointless. Why didn't you just utilise both strengths instead of buying a Crossbow?

As I see it you have quite a few viable combos:
- Chainsaw (when holding ground, being swarmed or need to decap fp) + Katana (for everything else. You must have room and time to charge/sidestep sirens/crawlers - or take them out with 9mm).
........stuff.........
at later waves you need to know how to one-attack-decap fps).

You can't just magically tell when one of those situations will crop up. The swarmed one being the most dangerous, I advise you buy a Chainsaw. Also, you know you mentioned that BOTH Katana and Dual HandCannons are both good at getting rid of Sirens and Crawlers, right? With HandCannons offering the benefit of ranged attack, you're basically agreeing with me that the Katana isn't needed by a Beserker.

On open maps where you can sidestep, kite and time your attacks such as farm and to some extent london I'd say katana+bullpup+handcannon works best for me.

You don't need both the Bullpup and HandCannons. The only reason you'd pick them is for the sheer novelty of holding more weapons. They will always remain of equally average use to a Beserker.

I think most berserkers use Katana because hit n run is a really fun play style. Before patch there were a lot of berserker and medics that used Fire Axe for the same reason. They are also fed up with the constant chainsaw sound and the fact you move so slow that your team members kill your targets before you reach them. The Katana has weaknesses, so do chainsaw, but Katana is fast, powerful and fun to play with - chainsaw is "only" powerful.

Try lowering your effects Volume. I noticed that Gamers nowadays seem to hate loud noise and I don't see why. The Chainsaw makes a beautiful noise. When you hear that noise coming from your weapon, it reminds you that you are a force to be reckoned with and not some fast moving, lower damaging hazard to the team.

Katana for getting to places and hacking up stragglers.

Basically, the knife?