The healing syringe and you!

[simplecat]

There's a difference in heal amount, as listed above. And there's a difference in recharge rate / ammo consumption. Healing rate remains the same for all sources of healing - 1 hp / 100 ms.

Syringe and medic pistol gives the same, least amount of heal - 20 hp.

 

[Phoenix21891]

As far as I know, the syringe and the darts heal for the exact same amount. Not only that, but it's more productive for a high level Medic to use darts anyways. You can heal multiple targets faster, and if you're using the Vaccinate/Armament combo, you can stack the armor bonus multiple times from a single heal. The syringe is too slow between uses to achieve this.

The reason you don't see people using syringes on other players is because it has been replaced with the Medic Pistol. Even off perk, you get two charges, it heals for the same amount, and you can heal from a distance. The pistol's cost and weight are both insignificant, and it's stronger than the 9MM as a backup weapon.

The reason you don't see as much inner-team healing is twofold. One, is that a high-level Medic grants armor, which everyone wants, so most people won't self heal or bother healing other's because being healed by the Medic provides a bigger boon. Two, is that the game is much more fast paced compared to KF1. The time it takes to pull out another weapon or tool to heal somebody and then switch back feels like an eternity when the Zeds are dead sprinting at you.

Even once you start seeing less Medics due to other perks being released, you won't see people using the syringe much for inner-team healing. It will be Medic Pistols if the team's smart.

EDIT: Simplecat taught me something. I was unaware that the Medic SMG, Shotgun and AR had more potent darts as well. Live and learn I guess. My point still stands though, the syringe is really only useful for self heals now.

 

[TheIncredibleGrusi]

The thing with the syringe is that, most people (yours truly) only use it as either a last resource heal or when they miss all the darts.

Yes, all the darts.

From 3 different weapons.

Not kidding.

If you need more than 2 weapons to heal your teammates up as a maxed Medic, I'd say you should choose a different class.

 

[TheIncredibleGrusi]

As far as I know, the syringe and the darts heal for the exact same amount. Not only that, but it's more productive for a high level Medic to use darts anyways. You can heal multiple targets faster, and if you're using the Vaccinate/Armament combo, you can stack the armor bonus multiple times from a single heal. The syringe is too slow between uses to achieve this.

The reason you don't see people using syringes on other players is because it has been replaced with the Medic Pistol. Even off perk, you get two charges, it heals for the same amount, and you can heal from a distance. The pistol's cost and weight are both insignificant, and it's stronger than the 9MM as a backup weapon.

The reason you don't see as much inner-team healing is twofold. One, is that a high-level Medic grants armor, which everyone wants, so most people won't self heal or bother healing other's because being healed by the Medic provides a bigger boon. Two, is that the game is much more fast paced compared to KF1. The time it takes to pull out another weapon or tool to heal somebody and then switch back feels like an eternity when the Zeds are dead sprinting at you.

Even once you start seeing less Medics due to other perks being released, you won't see people using the syringe much for inner-team healing. It will be Medic Pistols if the team's smart.

EDIT: Simplecat taught me something. I was unaware that the Medic SMG, Shotgun and AR had more potent darts as well. Live and learn I guess. My point still stands though, the syringe is really only useful for self heals now.

Yep true, more details in medic-guides. In general, AR heals a lot and is really efficent. SMG sucks to heal with (same recharge speed as the Pistol lol) and Shotgun is ok.

If you see a Medic without the AR, then do not count on many heals.

Syringe is there to heal others, not you btw, unless you are soloing or you are the Medic. You get a 50% speed boost to the recharge-time on the Syringe if you heal someone else.

EDIT: Even though the Healing Grenades got nerfed in terms of armor-regeneration it does NOT apply to the Healing Darts. Every heal you apply, besides with the Healing Grenades, still recharges armor.

So please people, stop using Acidic Compound or Combatant if you are the only Medic - Where is the point in some puny damage as the Medic?

Acidic Compound deals around the same damage (DoT plus the initial poison-dart) as 2 shots of the AR. It is really bad for now (allthough you can panic Zeds, ok, but the panic works really bad for FP and SC, so I would not say it is worth it at all). Unless the new balances come out with the 2nd update-content, I'd say stick with the Armament and Vaccination combo (Yeah, Vaccination got nerfed though, only +25% bloat-bile resistance now).

If you want to stun Zeds, use ZED TIME - Sedative, works to 100% on any Zed as long as in Zed-Time.

 

[Rainydaykid]

If you see a Medic without the AR, then do not count on many heals.

I heal just fine with SMG and pistol, though I get the AR when I can. It's annoying that something like a medic is leaning towards being gear based and not skill based. That crap is for MMO's. Player skill should always be the defining factor in a shooter.

Buying top tier weapons should be optional, to buy if you want. I've ran many games as a commando and did just fine with a bullpup. You shouldn't have to buy them. As support, I generally use boomstick and the mossberg, almost never buy an AA12, I hate that gun.

 

[breadtruck]

Using the syringe leaves me defenseless. Not an option with a many players I have played with.

 

[headbox]

Using the syringe leaves me defenseless. Not an option with a many players I have played with.

You still have bash, and come on man. If you die in less time than it takes to swap weapons, you died several minutes ago. Or you're slow, I guess.

Really all this thread proves is that the healing syringe needs balance changes. I don't think the syringe is 20 health a hit, though, that doesn't sound right. That's the self heal. The ally heal is greater, or should be. I thought it was 50 base before % bonus from medic, making the medic's syringe extra-amazing.

 

[Phoenix21891]

You still have bash, and come on man. If you die in less time than it takes to swap weapons, you died several minutes ago. Or you're slow, I guess.

Really all this thread proves is that the healing syringe needs balance changes. I don't think the syringe is 20 health a hit, though, that doesn't sound right. That's the self heal. The ally heal is greater, or should be. I thought it was 50 base before % bonus from medic, making the medic's syringe extra-amazing.

Even if it was, its inability to quickly stack armor with Vac/Arm would make it inferior regardless (as a Medic anyways)

As for healing with non-Medic perks, the time it takes to swap out to the syringe, heal someone, then swap back makes it pretty crippling. You have to factor in not only the time it takes to do so, but that this is also time where you're not shooting, and thus not stemming the tide of Zeds. Even self-healing, which is a fair bit faster, takes careful consideration because of this.

The fact that everything moves faster in KF2 than KF1, both Zeds and players, makes the syringe markedly less efficient than it used to be. As I said before, a Medic Pistol grants an overall greater ability to heal, even off perk, than the syringe does.

 

[gap_81]

As I said before, a Medic Pistol grants an overall greater ability to heal, even off perk, than the syringe does.

Which brings me back to my augment that the medic pistol should just flat out replace both the 9mm and syringe as the Horzine weapon provided for its enployees.

The 9mm could then be overhauled as a class specific weapon for the gunslinger and the medic could get a new T1 weapon or just make body AR their T1 starting item and replace/modify the perk that gives it for free.

Edit: or even leave the perk as is and just make it an increase to max armor and decrease to price.

 

[TheTCREngineer]

The Medic Syringe recharges faster if you heal a team mate. The only thing I would recommend is that it heals much more compared to the medic pistol dart(+20) or give the player healed 25% resistance to all damage for 5 seconds and increase their speed temporarily.

 

[Aleflippy]

The problem is that the syringe use its whole bar to heal a teammate... That's already way less useful than in KF1. Also,in the first game,the medic weapons were bloody expensive. Here,for only 100 bucks and 1 weight space, you can have the medic pistol,which do the job better... The choice is easy.

 

[outofrealman]

Funny thing is now we have 120-150 health and we are still healing for 20 except medic.

 

[TheTCREngineer]

The problem is that the syringe use its whole bar to heal a teammate... That's already way less useful than in KF1. Also,in the first game,the medic weapons were bloody expensive. Here,for only 100 bucks and 1 weight space, you can have the medic pistol,which do the job better... The choice is easy.

Even if it does use a full bar, it regenerates the whole bar twice as fast if you heal a team mate. Go try it now, you'll see.

 

[Rainydaykid]

They shouldn't have given the medic a pistol as his starting weapon in the first place, everyone else besides zerk gets a long gun. The pistol and SMG should have been combined into a PDW or something with 20 dmg, 30 round mag, and full auto, then the T2 replaced with something else.

I generally try to carry a medic pistol to help the team out, and it's also a one headshot kill on lower trash, but sometimes it's better to use my 9mm, for backup on commando, or the faster perk reloads with support.

 

[outofrealman]

They shouldn't have given the medic a pistol as his starting weapon in the first place, everyone else besides zerk gets a long gun. The pistol and SMG should have been combined into a PDW or something with 20 dmg, 30 round mag, and full auto, then the T2 replaced with something else.

I generally try to carry a medic pistol to help the team out, and it's also a one headshot kill on lower trash, but sometimes it's better to use my 9mm, for backup on commando, or the faster perk reloads with support.

I like it because I can have AR with 1, pistol with 2 and my pluv for 3.

 

[xbalday95]

according to the wiki, all medic weapons heal for the same amount, at the same rate, with the only difference being how fast the charge regens and how much each dart wastes charge. http://wiki.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?title=HMTECH-401_Assault_Rifle

 

[Aleflippy]

Wasn't it already the case in KF1? And launching 4 darts or 2 can make a huge difference...

 

[headbox]

Something else that isn't obvious in game is whether or not healing darts stack. A fast double tap should waste the second dart, you should have to time these things as they regenerate your allies. It would add a skill gradient vs if they do just stack.

 

[xbalday95]

Something else that isn't obvious in game is whether or not healing darts stack. A fast double tap should waste the second dart, you should have to time these things as they regenerate your allies. It would add a skill gradient vs if they do just stack.

people need to understand that just nerfing things for no reason doesnt make the game have a higher skill cap. making it so they dont stack would just cause you to have to wait an extra second which wouldnt be an indicator of good skill, just that you know it doesnt stack.

 

[headbox]

people need to understand that just nerfing things for no reason doesnt make the game have a higher skill cap. making it so they dont stack would just cause you to have to wait an extra second which wouldnt be an indicator of good skill, just that you know it doesnt stack.

Yeah you're wrong plain and simple. It would require you to either track target for over 2 seconds, or reacquire your target. That in itself is a meaningful choice, one or the other would be more practical depending on context. It would mean positioning and obstructions are more important.

It would also introduce a tradeoff if they're already regenerating but leaving your LOS. You can choose to waste half a dart to leave them with as much health as possible as they get split up.

These are really basic game mechanics concepts and if you don't understand them I recommend you spend some time studying game design before you post about game mechanics.

Right now the game's healing mechanics are dumb on the verge of vapid, despite time being spent them, all of that time was wasted development time and it both dumbs down active gameplay and does the franchise itself a disservice at the same time.

A high-risk, short-range action with a failure mode should not have equivalent return to a low-to-no risk ranged targeting-assisted action. Also the low risk option has higher ammo capacity. It's bad design, period.

You're wasting time, risking Zed melee hits, risking potentially lethal body blocks, compensating (possibly cooperating implying two people are actively involved) to coordinate player's relative velocity and you get the same health back as if you had just spammed a key while pointing in their general direction with the weapon you're already using. That's bull****.

Every player that picks this up will die before using the syringe if it's left this way, you might as well have never designed the neat relative velocity function. There needs to be a carrot.

Syringe hits should heal at least 50 health. If you need to adjust the rate to make that balanced, that's one thing; or just bring down the ranged healing to some point at which it isn't the universal best and only option.