The Graylist

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Olivier

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 19, 2010
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Why not just have this apply to anything that's not whitelisted?
What's the point in blocking people who legitimately earned their perks from using them on unbalanced maps?
Seems to just be a result of lazy incorporation of the whitelisting feature in my opinion.

Do you make games? Are you working with Steam? Try to search for informations before saying that TWI's lazy. Oh and you perks are working on any ''unbalanced map'' you will simply not be able to gain XP.

To put it quickly and bluntly, Sandbox mode contains only safe code, meaning that we know, since we wrote it, that it will not attempt to bypass the security built into the game. When loading a mutator, however, it can not be assured that it will not bypass said security unless we take a look at the mutator and specifically allow it. Which is why we have toyed with the notion of making a "Read Only" whitelist of mutators.

As for hosting on our own servers, I hope you can see now, from what I wrote above, that this would not be a quick fix for the issue. Our only choice for self-hosting to work properly would be to entirely rewrite the system to not work with Steam at all, which we do not have the bandwidth to do at this time, nor would we want to depart from Steam.

Trust me, guys, this is not the way we want things to work, we have tried to think of any way this would be possible, because we'd love for everyone to be able to use their Perks, even if they couldn't advance them...it's just not feasible without radical changes that we were not willing to make.

IS-2 ---> :IS2:
 
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[TW]schneidzekk

Machete Engineering.
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
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You can call us lazy and agree all day but that doesn't change the fact that it is simply not possible to implement something like that with the currently available systems in place.

Yes, we could just rewrite the game, Steam and what not but that is probably not going to happen.
 
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YoYoBatty

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 17, 2009
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You can call us lazy and agree all day but that doesn't change the fact that it is simply not possible to implement something like that with the currently available systems in place.

Yes, we could just rewrite the game, Steam and what not but that is probably not going to happen.

I meant that I agree with being able to use perks on non-whitelisted maps not the part about being lazy and what not.
 

Azukki

Grizzled Veteran
Jul 7, 2009
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'Lazy' may have been harsh wording, but you know what I mean. It wasn't implemented ideally because of the development time and effort necessary to do so.

Which is perfectly reasonable if it would require rewriting the game, although it seems like the perks shouldn't have been implemented so inaccessibly in the first place. But I'm hardly informed enough to make that judgment.
 

omarfw

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 13, 2009
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Here Be Dragons
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I believe, and have mentioned before, that you should only be allowed to level up on official maps.

I've actually considered this a good idea also, but I think it might just kill the game. I think the levels should be removed and their should just be classes to choose from. by comparison it would solve much more problems than it would cause.

on alien swarm, you can only level on stock maps, though it takes far less time to level on there. but for the most part, it works just fine. there's still plenty of custom maps played on there and you can't even auto-download them to play them.

and no I wouldn't care if a new system were put in place to make all the work that KEPT and TW have done obsolete, in fact i've been attempting to think of one that would be possible myself. the work we do is a band-aid to the problem, but i don't think it's a solution, not by any stretch of the matter. the current situation is a pain in the butt for mappers and i fear it is cutting KF's content lifetime in half when it comes to new maps in the future.
 
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YoYoBatty

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 17, 2009
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In Killing Floor 2.5, there was no levels, whitelist, you would just qualify for perks and you couldn't change your perk every wave, you had to switch maps to do so.
 

Murphy

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
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Having to level perks keeps people playing longer than they would if it was just about having fun with the game though! And that's not nearly as bad as that made it sound. E.g. if playing Diablo II was just about having fun clicking monsters to death people would kill Baal once, maybe twice. And they would play through the game once to see the story unfold and then maybe once more to see what another character is like. But since your characters can level up and you are hoping for good loot people keep playing and playing and playing. Same with KF.
It's definitely a huge factor in the game's longevity. As are custom maps! No doubt about it. KF is a game where custom content is exceptionally well received! Compromising one for the other can only hurt the game in the long run.

As much as I, personally, prefer the unlockable, non-levelable perks from the mod (because I don't play on whitelisted maps often so my perks are all rather low without hope of ever getting to the higher levels, lol) and as much as I, personally, dislike the idea of having to go through the whitelisting process, the way the game works at the moment is the best way for the game to work.:(

Bar magical solutions to cheating and exploiting, of course.
 
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SMIFF

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2009
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I suppose this gray list thing would work, but half exp?

thats still too much i reckon

should be like, 1/8th at least
 
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