The flaws of RO2's leveling system
- Thread starter Avtomat
- Start date
Your sure aren't but you're also not the only person posting in this thread
I don't think you've actually read any of Avtomat's posts.. he is 100%( and apparent some significant amount of the player base) are definitely for blanket removal of the unlocks/progression. However, they've given up after TWI rightly ignored such requests (given a much more viable alternative in mods/mutators), and now simply grumble about how awful it is - see : this entire thread.
I got a chuckle out of this when I realized that's pretty close to what Sarkis did (Well, minus the exaggerated time requirement).
Some things shouldn't have been put in the game in the first place. If TWI gave us an unlockable scope for the PPSh a la COD WaW and people started complaining about it, should TWI simply tweak it (oh, we are reducing it from 4x to a 2x) or remove them completely? A progression system belongs in RO2 as much as a scoped PPSh.Your sure aren't but you're also not the only person posting in this thread
Again personal opinion (and a bit of exaggeration) .. one that i agree with.. but still opinion - something that alone shouldn't decide the game for others. I stress again the tools to properly customize the game to tailor to personal taste should be tried and exhausted before we even try talking of outright removal, especially this late in the game's life.
Your sure aren't but you're also not the only person posting in this thread
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=1130528&postcount=1
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=1130563&postcount=4
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=1130683&postcount=12
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=1131637&postcount=20
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=1132622&postcount=52
You insulted my friend with such accusations. You were yet again empty handed.
No one is talking or asking about the actual removal, not here in this thread. And If they are, isn't that their right to opinion? Why don't you allow for that?
And now take a good look at all the beautiful constructive things you've been posting in this thread:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=1132601&postcount=49
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=1132732&postcount=60
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=1132744&postcount=62
We have tried for one year, we are exhausted. There is no escaping the progression systems for our kind of player, no wonder why 20% of the people are always botfarming, and so many others in player matches are simply grinding. So is it now the time to talk about its removal? I don't think so, and I don't think you do, simply empty words again right? Or do you really meant it? Because I am all for discussing it's removal and replacements for something better. In fact, I am not so much, is not as if they would actually do anything about it on our opinion alone. One year is not late into the game, it is but the beginning for this kind of game, it will last some 5 years still. We have to make something good out of it, time alone won't.
Again: ''I declare this, the number 1 priority in this game right now!''
For me it is and I have my reasons to believe that. One can say that is not really the number 1 or 2... but it is of major importance nonetheless! I would wish all of you make less of a ridicule of my opinion. Or my demands for revision. Again, I do own a blank check from TWI, (inb4reset) as many of you do. There is nothing ridiculous about that.
Poor Avtomat confess to me how he wants the PEM scope, he is still 2000 kills short of it. It should have been his from day one, if the system was any better. Red Orchestra 2 Heroes of Stalingrad. Stalingrad!
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I see... So it's because you need to work for getting your beloved PEM. Why didn't you say that out front? That would have saved us from this discussion.
@TWI: Sarkis demands a PEM now for him and his friends.
The time for that demand was before the game launched, it is too late for that. I demand the opportunity be given to everyone to actually unlock stuff in this game, as of right now it is too hard and off putting, for no real good reason. Not when actual equipment from stalingrad is involved anyhow, as it is not only about the PEM. We want the system to be more reasonable to reflect the reality of the players and the game it self. There is nothing wrong with that.
Yes the hilarity, players expressing their wishes for weapons that were in Stalingrad.
That's one option that, as a an ADMIN, I'd choose to ignore.... many players enjoy the game as is. Besides, the unranked servers are, as has been indicated... dead.
PPSh41 drum mag = 1600 kills
Shiny TT-33 = 5500 kills
91/30 PEM scope = 6050 kills
MKb42 = U$ 3,75
This:
Priceless
Shiny TT-33 = 5500 kills
91/30 PEM scope = 6050 kills
MKb42 = U$ 3,75
This:
Priceless
PPSh41 drum mag = 1600 kills
Shiny TT-33 = 5500 kills
91/30 PEM scope = 6050 kills
MKb42 = U$ 3,75
This:
Priceless
The Mkb42 has unlocks too. Which only do unlock if you reach the required weapon XP. So yes the Mkb42 does come available to those that payed for the DDE, but it will be at level 0, just as the rest of the weapons. It's just an extra weapon for which they payed.
The valid comparison to make is that the MKb42 is worlds apart in validity, in its presence in game. Was the system more fair, maybe interesting.. the MKb42/ AVT40 would have requirements as high as 30000 kills or so. If of course having the correct sniper rifle variant for the Stalingrad period, that comes with an unfortunate bayonet, requires 6050 kills. Is all a question of authenticity, which the Unlock's system completely lacks or ignores, but that is ok. But we are not questioning this in fact, we don't want the MKb42, or MP40/II to have greater requirements, or be removed from the system for that matter. What we want is simply for the other weapons, the more correct and fair ones, for the setting of Stalingrad, who some of us cannot live without, for these weapons not to be so amazingly hard to get, for very little in game advantage. And also some of the pistols, or weapons that only unlock new cleaner textures.
But all of the sudden, because the system is made in one way instead of another, our wishes are made the motive of laughter. And about the MKb42 unlocks, they only make the whole game more littered with nonsense, as is the MKb42 in Stalingrad in a mode called ''Realism''.
Again, can we have a revision of the so dreaded Progression System, in regards to the Unlocks alone? And I ask this directly to TWI.
But all of the sudden, because the system is made in one way instead of another, our wishes are made the motive of laughter. And about the MKb42 unlocks, they only make the whole game more littered with nonsense, as is the MKb42 in Stalingrad in a mode called ''Realism''.
Again, can we have a revision of the so dreaded Progression System, in regards to the Unlocks alone? And I ask this directly to TWI.
I was going to make some kind of post arguing my case, but the last page or so has been a great reminder that the only things that matter on these forums are edgy one-liners and people who think that everyone else is just whining because they don't want to have to 'earn' something they a) generally already have, and b) actually have the skill to use properly, unlike the vast majority of people who play this game.
Meanwhile, pocket change 'earns' people a whole new weapon which cannot even be reliably placed at Stalingrad, not a scope that was used on every known example of a particular sniper rifle in said battle. Yeah, this seems totally legitimate. I'm sure any moment now we'll be hearing about THE INVISIBLE HAND OF THE FREE MARKET. I wonder how long it'll take before someone looks at EA and takes a leaf from their playbook, enabling people to pay to unlock everything.
The entire system should never have been included. I don't recall people begging for an unlock system in any multiplayer shooter until the 'cool kids' did it first, much less people asking for it in Ostfront. You can't just tack on a completely inappropriate feature from another type of game entirely and call that progress, it is a step backwards. If people are so hung up on making RO2 better than Ostfront (which, incidentally, it would have been by far if TWI had avoided trying to market it to the mainstream crowd), adding a completely pointless unlock system is not the way to do it.
I mean, half the weapons don't have any unlocks at all, several that do have them only unlock some utterly pointless cosmetic change after thousands of kills... how the hell does that sound like a good idea to anybody? At least in Call of Duty and Battlefield the unlock schemes make sense; is anyone seriously going to argue that thousands of kills with a pistol to unlock a totally cosmetic upgrade is a valuable contribution to the game, or that a texture with a different colour on the grip area is seriously something that needs to be 'earned' through hour after hour of using a secondary weapon to kill people?
Get real.
PS: I 'earned' the PEM three times over. Once at the end of beta, once after release, and then again after the stats reset. I appreciate the attitude, though, it says a lot.
Meanwhile, pocket change 'earns' people a whole new weapon which cannot even be reliably placed at Stalingrad, not a scope that was used on every known example of a particular sniper rifle in said battle. Yeah, this seems totally legitimate. I'm sure any moment now we'll be hearing about THE INVISIBLE HAND OF THE FREE MARKET. I wonder how long it'll take before someone looks at EA and takes a leaf from their playbook, enabling people to pay to unlock everything.
The entire system should never have been included. I don't recall people begging for an unlock system in any multiplayer shooter until the 'cool kids' did it first, much less people asking for it in Ostfront. You can't just tack on a completely inappropriate feature from another type of game entirely and call that progress, it is a step backwards. If people are so hung up on making RO2 better than Ostfront (which, incidentally, it would have been by far if TWI had avoided trying to market it to the mainstream crowd), adding a completely pointless unlock system is not the way to do it.
I mean, half the weapons don't have any unlocks at all, several that do have them only unlock some utterly pointless cosmetic change after thousands of kills... how the hell does that sound like a good idea to anybody? At least in Call of Duty and Battlefield the unlock schemes make sense; is anyone seriously going to argue that thousands of kills with a pistol to unlock a totally cosmetic upgrade is a valuable contribution to the game, or that a texture with a different colour on the grip area is seriously something that needs to be 'earned' through hour after hour of using a secondary weapon to kill people?
Get real.
PS: I 'earned' the PEM three times over. Once at the end of beta, once after release, and then again after the stats reset. I appreciate the attitude, though, it says a lot.
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Get Real?? In a game and a game forum? Enjoy the game. Many players enjoy leveling up - its part and parcel to the entertainment factor of RO2. Of course, if you are into "instant gratification" that might annoy.
I say post less and play more.
I say post less and play more.
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I play plenty - in fact I've racked up more hours in RO2 than I did in RO1 by something like double by Steam's reckoning. I just so happen to have had expectations (which were set by things Tripwire said running up to release, not some unreasonably **** view of how things 'should be') which were not met, and I find it hard to enjoy a game that plays more like any other two-bit shooter than it does the game I came to love over the six years I played it. I don't think RO2 should be RO1 with better graphics and I abhor Classic since it is essentially that. What I do think is that it should have continued moving in the same direction, not attempted to make a lane merge from one extreme of the highway to the other without indicating.
If people need an unlock system to enjoy a game, that is their problem. Not all of us do, and adding unlocks is not a suitable alternative for better gameplay.
I don't care about 'instant gratification' so much as caring even less about having to spend hours every day for a timespan of about two weeks to get something I expected to have at the start of the game (since TWI were busy touting their authentic loadouts), and which is functionally identical to something that takes half as much time to get.
The fact that most of the unlocks which aren't cosmetic are actual upgrades, not sidegrades like in better-designed unlock systems, makes it even worse. Penalising people for not sinking hour after hour into one weapon; nice.
Actually, while I'm here - is there any particular reason it is unreasonable for me to be dissatisfied with the state of the game, while it was apparently okay for people to go ape over Infinity Ward's changes to the CoD series a couple games back? I mean, a hell of a lot of people were doing all sorts of insane stuff like forming 'community action' groups on their forums and boycotting it, that seems far more unreasonable to me.
If people need an unlock system to enjoy a game, that is their problem. Not all of us do, and adding unlocks is not a suitable alternative for better gameplay.
I don't care about 'instant gratification' so much as caring even less about having to spend hours every day for a timespan of about two weeks to get something I expected to have at the start of the game (since TWI were busy touting their authentic loadouts), and which is functionally identical to something that takes half as much time to get.
The fact that most of the unlocks which aren't cosmetic are actual upgrades, not sidegrades like in better-designed unlock systems, makes it even worse. Penalising people for not sinking hour after hour into one weapon; nice.
Actually, while I'm here - is there any particular reason it is unreasonable for me to be dissatisfied with the state of the game, while it was apparently okay for people to go ape over Infinity Ward's changes to the CoD series a couple games back? I mean, a hell of a lot of people were doing all sorts of insane stuff like forming 'community action' groups on their forums and boycotting it, that seems far more unreasonable to me.
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I have to say, the Zielsechs scope, the dual mag for the MP40 and the ZF41 scope for the MKb42 and others do make me a more effective player automatically. While the PEM does very slightly (3.5x VS 4.0x), and the PPSh41 drum simply makes the game more authentic.