The flaws of RO2's leveling system

[Cwivey]

Not really. Unless he plays for some good 4 months.

Well that's what I did to get all of the things I have now. :<

 

[Sarkis.]

Well that's what I did to get all of the things I have now. :<

And that is all fine and all. The problem is, if you really want to have the LVL 50 weapon sooner you can, by botfarming. So is very logic, a person decides to trade many months of regular play for some 4 hours of botfarming. If only the requirements were lower, and instead of months playing the role, it took some few days, that decision would not have to be made, because playing with humans is a lot better. And there would be a lot less botfarming. That results in more PvP players and a lot less time wasted by everyone.

Becos... this game should not have been about grinding in the first place.

Now, at the same time that we lower the requirements, we can, and then it would be fair... remove XP from bots. Or not, since who cares... let others botfarm if they want and open it all. Botfarming is boring, at least let it have a value, but not be a mandatory thing in order to unlock stuff before RO3 comes out.

 

[Ritterkreuz]

^
Yeah, too slow and I might not be playing the game in 4 months.. I don't think I want to botfarm any other weapon, as I simply don't use those other weapons.

The best bot-farming map seems to be Spartanvoka, where I can get 50+ kills with the MG34 every round due to the fact that the map is small/linear, and ammo resupply is close at hand. Each round probably lasts no more than 10 or 15 minutes.

 

[PhoenixDragon]

Not really. Unless he plays for some good 4 months.

If you can manage one kill per sixty seconds of play, 3,000 kills takes about 50 hours. Even for the guy complaining of how little he gets to play, that's barely over two weeks of play. Some players would manage that much play in a week. Make it a more sedentary one kill per two minutes (Or 15 in a 30-minute match, fairly mediocre for a MG), and that's a month.

And during that whole time, you still get to play, and will do almost as well with the level 1 gun as you will the final level 50 one.

 

[akb]

If you can manage one kill per sixty seconds of play, 3,000 kills takes about 50 hours. Even for the guy complaining of how little he gets to play, that's barely over two weeks of play. Some players would manage that much play in a week. Make it a more sedentary one kill per two minutes (Or 15 in a 30-minute match, fairly mediocre for a MG), and that's a month.

And during that whole time, you still get to play, and will do almost as well with the level 1 gun as you will the final level 50 one.

That is only if he can manage to get the gun every game!

 

[r5cya]

That is only if he can manage to get the gun every game!

that's a moot point. if we lower the requirents, he still has to be lucky enough to get the class when he wants. we're not discussing the likelyhood of getting the class you want. just how long it takes to level up in it.

 

[Sarkis.]

If you can manage one kill per sixty seconds of play, 3,000 kills takes about 50 hours. Even for the guy complaining of how little he gets to play, that's barely over two weeks of play. Some players would manage that much play in a week. Make it a more sedentary one kill per two minutes (Or 15 in a 30-minute match, fairly mediocre for a MG), and that's a month.

And what you would have there is a player dedicating a week of play to a single firearm of the game. As others have pointed out, you won't always be able to choose the german team, sometimes not even the machine gunner class, and that is a fair highly available class. What is really wrong with all this, is simply that this level of dedication is an absurd requirement. We will either get tired of repeated playstyle, or will want to participate in other ways to help your team win, or even will want to use/grind another weapon. All that also fails the fact that we won't probably play RO2 every single day, which again will drive the actual time that it takes to probably over a month or something.

Also, the requirement for the LVL50 MG34 is 3300 kills.

For some people it will take 6 hours, for others it will take weeks, months, most people who bought the game when it released still don't have it. The great majority never will.

The requirements are too damn high. Disagree all you want, as in anyone, but that is the feeling and opinion of the greater majority of people. And it makes a ton of sense, that opinion.

Also, everyone can have their opinions about this, but depending on how the system is made, on the different possible ways, come different way into how it affects the game, on the broadest of scales. A more reasonable requirement table would have the effect of making people a lot less grumpy with the system, would make more people play pvp matches without the shadow of grinding, would greatly reduce botfarming, the time people waste botfarming even if they do it, and would free a ton of content more easily into people's computers, providing more actual prolonged enjoyment of the players with RO2, probably a ton lot more than new light tanks ever would.

I'd really like to know what TWI thinks.

 

[PhoenixDragon]

For some people it will take 6 hours, for others it will take weeks, months, most people who bought the game when it released still don't have it. The great majority never will.

Rarity is kinda the point of a progression system.

 

[r5cya]

i thought it was 3300 points to level 50 mg? now we're saying it's 3300 kills?

p.s. i've had level 50 on every weapon i really wanted it on, months and months ago. it's not hard to do.

 

[Sarkis.]

Rarity is kinda the point of a progression system.

Well, Mkb42.

So nah, I don't see the 91/30 PU being any rare. If rarity is a part of it, they got it all wrong and backwards. And rarity should not have been a part of it, because it is not a super rare 10x, IR scope for your FN FAL. It is the drum mag for the PPSh and bayonets, or other actual stuff from Stalingrad, that is made rarer. While at the same time, MP40/IIs are a common sight. Not saying, that the drum is rarer than an MP40/II, but in a clear comparison of their rarity, as it should have been, for historical motives, the MP40/II has it too good, while the PPSh's drum has it too damn hard.

Rarity, for the kind of game like RO2, is better dealt with like the class slots already do. Marksmen is rare, common rifleman is the majority..etc

i thought it was 3300 points to level 50 mg? now we're saying it's 3300 kills?

p.s. i've had level 50 on every weapon i really wanted it on, months and months ago. it's not hard to do.

It is 6600 points, that equal 3300 kills. And no, by no means is it easy, far from it, unless you wanted that for some 5 weapons or so. That is almost as the same as saying you really did not have too much interest.

 

[bobsynergy]

Like Sarkis said, it makes no sense at all why the stuff not in Stalingrad is less rare then the stuff that was common in Stalingrad, making stuff that wasn't there extremely rare, ok fine, but the common loadout? what's the point.

Though it's stuff I'll probably never unlock for a very long time because I don't believe in bot farming or forcing my self to play as a certain role for stuff that should be there in the first place, when I pick a gun I should expect the common loadout for it, not that I need 3000 kills for it, it justs puts me off and something I'm not willing to do for a gimmick (which is a progression system in a fps, always hated them in games where it doesn't belong)

 

[Ritterkreuz]

I've already estimated that it'll take 25 + rounds of spartanovka for me to get the level 50 mg34. Once you get past level 25, the points requirement nearly doubles so it gets more and more annoying.

So I'm going to do it slowly and sparingly and over the rest of this month and maybe the next.

 

[[Mad_Murdock]]

So, you seem to agree with me entirely, it appears.

It would appear so. Well played sir.

 

[r5cya]

It is 6600 points, that equal 3300 kills. And no, by no means is it easy, far from it, unless you wanted that for some 5 weapons or so. That is almost as the same as saying you really did not have too much interest.

ok. 6600. thanks for clarifying that.
i didn't say it was easy to level all the weapons i have at fifty. i said it wasn't hard. i stick by that. not only wasn't it hard, i loved every minute of it!

 

[Ritterkreuz]

How many rounds does it take for the barrel to burst? And how long does it take for the barrel to cool completely?

 

[r5cya]

How many rounds does it take for the barrel to burst? And how long does it take for the barrel to cool completely?

the barrel will never burst. it just stops working till you change it. i'm not sure you can use it again after it overheats. i seem to die before i've had a chance to let it cool enough to see. i have waited quite a while and switched it on accident, just to find it still smoking.

 

[PhoenixDragon]

So nah, I don't see the 91/30 PU being any rare. If rarity is a part of it, they got it all wrong and backwards. And rarity should not have been a part of it, because it is not a super rare 10x, IR scope for your FN FAL. It is the drum mag for the PPSh and bayonets, or other actual stuff from Stalingrad, that is made rarer.

And that would be a design concession due to it being a game. With a progression system, you want each step to be an improvement, or at worst, neutral. If each level of progression introduces weaker and weaker options, then the system is completely pointless.

(And I'll point out that this is arguing in the context of designing a progression system, not in whether a progression system is pointless in the broader sense, before someone takes it out of context for a meaningless cheap shot that contributes nothing to the conversation.)

 

[Sensemann]

And here we are, over a year after the launch of the game, still discussing about the levelling system and its flaws while there are many other issues more important to be fixed/added.

I hate the leveling system, there is no doubt about that. And there is no doubt that I agree with most of the criticism that has been written about it 12 months ago as it has been written yesterday.

However, all this distracts from far more important issues. For the players that are still waiting for promised content (online campaign, anyone?), for the custom map designers that are still waiting for the outcome of phase 1 of the mapping contest confused and for the devs that probably think that more time needs to be invested in fixing the unlocks and how to improve or dodge the levelling system in RO 2 or maybe even RS.

This game is a freaking year old by now and we still discuss the levelling system. In RO 2. For real...

 

[Proud_God]

Sometimes a meme says it all ...

 

[Ritterkreuz]

the barrel will never burst. it just stops working till you change it. i'm not sure you can use it again after it overheats. i seem to die before i've had a chance to let it cool enough to see. i have waited quite a while and switched it on accident, just to find it still smoking.

The barrel overheats (then you get a warning indicator), then, if you continue shooting a bit, the barrel breaks.

The Mg34 gunner has only 2 barrels, so if both break, the gun is now useless.