The community is one of the worst I've seen.....

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Oldih

Glorious IS-2 Comrade
Nov 22, 2005
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Oh, and one more thing. Nothing is sadder that seeing a team of 6 lvl 6 players huddling in a corner shooting down a hall while two guys keep a door welded. They only learned how to play in a barricade so that is all they know.

Now the completely legit question: what's wrong playing more defensive and campomania style? Running around bat**** bonkers and going for "I steal kills by spamming with the M14 and then my e-penis grows when I have 1000 kills u noobs" can be amusing and even fun on some occasions but by the time you've seen gazillion wipes because people are not aware of their surroundings - and most of them seem to be sharpshooters for some unknown reason when they're running around - it becomes more silly than saying it's the right way to play.

Going with the "playing the right way" or "doesn't know how to play due X" argument doesn't really work as much as there might be some point behind it. Otherwise one could easily go that unless you've killed FP (post-instadecap) with a knife only without dying and no 3rd party help (nor weapons) you don't know how to play the game. :p
 

Benjamin

Grizzled Veteran
May 17, 2009
3,631
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Now the completely legit question: what's wrong playing more defensive and campomania style?

I don't personally think there's anything necessarily wrong with it, although I dislike it because I feel it's cheap and boring. I used to play like it in the beginning, but more recently I've taken to playing maps that don't allow this, simply because it's more of a challenge having to keep moving around to survive. If only they'd fix the spawning...
 

omarfw

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 13, 2009
2,502
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Here Be Dragons
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I don't personally think there's anything necessarily wrong with it, although I dislike it because I feel it's cheap and boring. I used to play like it in the beginning, but more recently I've taken to playing maps that don't allow this, simply because it's more of a challenge having to keep moving around to survive. If only they'd fix the spawning...

cheap and boring? sure. i agree there. but i also think that the only bad strategy is the kind that doesn't work. and camping definitely works.

not camping isn't somehow better, it's just more fun on average.
 

nutterbutter

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 8, 2010
2,010
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Now the completely legit question: what's wrong playing more defensive and campomania style?

There is nothing "wrong" with it but it is pathetic and boring.

Like I say all of the time; "If playing in a barricade is all someone does, then that is all they ever learn."

Running around bat**** bonkers and going for "I steal kills by spamming with the M14 and then my e-penis grows when I have 1000 kills u noobs" can be amusing and even fun on some occasions but by the time you've seen gazillion wipes because people are not aware of their surroundings - and most of them seem to be sharpshooters for some unknown reason when they're running around - it becomes more silly than saying it's the right way to play.

1) There are many ways to play between to two extremes of "camping" and Running around bat**** bonkers and going for 'I steal kills by spamming with the M14 and then my e-penis grows when I have 1000 kills u noobs'"

2) The m14 is a girl's gun.

3) Playing in a barricade leads to "people are not aware of their surroundings."

4) Never said that it is the "right" way to play. Only that poor players camp. And weld doors. And barricade. Because they have to.
 

Benjamin

Grizzled Veteran
May 17, 2009
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cheap and boring? sure. i agree there. but i also think that the only bad strategy is the kind that doesn't work. and camping definitely works.

Of course, for survival it generally is the best strategy. Hopefully in the sequel this will change. ;)
 

nutterbutter

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 8, 2010
2,010
1,281
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Of course, for survival it generally is the best strategy.

I don't think it is. Really.

Barricades mean that when they break though, and they will break though, there is no where to run.

That is the same problem I have with welding doors. Welding doors limits mobility. Welded doors hurt the team more than it hurts the mobs. Oh, and morons who randomly weld doors around the map are the worst.
 

Olivier

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 19, 2010
3,651
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I don't think it is. Really.

Barricades mean that when they break though, and they will break though, there is no where to run.

That is the same problem I have with welding doors. Welding doors limits mobility. Welded doors hurt the team more than it hurts the mobs. Oh, and morons who randomly weld doors around the map are the worst.

As long as the team survives, there are no bad strategy. I was able to hold the door in the long hallway in Office for the whole game on Suicidal. And we never felt in danger. There were no FP behind the door but i can remember a Scrake with two Husks and nomral zeds at wave 9. That was the only moment i needed the help of our Medic. Don't judge others strategy if they get the job done.

(And yes there are places to run, because theres at least like 12 zeds behind the door when it will explode. So you can easily run away and encounter less zeds in front of you)
 

omarfw

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 13, 2009
2,502
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Here Be Dragons
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Barricades mean that when they break though, and they will break though, there is no where to run.

you also have more then enough time to throw all your nades and empty the clip in all weapons. have you never played doom2? this is the MOST effective strategy. it doesn't matter what the game throws at you if you have 6 players all shooting at the same blob of smoke.
 

nutterbutter

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 8, 2010
2,010
1,281
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As long as the team survives, there are no bad strategy.

Well, yes and no. If one person survives then I suppose you could say that the strategy worked. But considering people lost cash, the survivor has to give out money (if he does), people have to collect weapons, run back to the hole, and all of the other time consuming BS, then I suppose you could say that it worked.

But does that mean it was a good strategy? Did that maximize damage, cash, time, and survivability? Are the players better now? Did they learn anything?

Yeah, the team survived by putting themselves in a hole but they are no better, as a team or individuals, than they were one wave before.


I was able to hold the door in the long hallway in Office for the whole game on Suicidal. And we never felt in danger. There were no FP behind the door but i can remember a Scrake with two Husks and nomral zeds at wave 9.

And you got lucky. What if 2 Pounders were behind the door along with a couple scrakes, husks, sirens, and so on. Then all of them were released on the team instantly?

That's the problem with barricading and welding doors. When someone welds a door, they create a problem. A problem that they have no idea how big or how constructed. It is much better to just kill them as they show up.


Don't judge others strategy if they get the job done.

Why not?

(And yes there are places to run, because theres at least like 12 zeds behind the door when it will explode. So you can easily run away and encounter less zeds in front of you)

Unless you turn the corner and there is a big stack of them there. Or they spawn on top of you as you are running through a hallway. OR any other situation that occurs when the team has to break and no one knows where to go or what to do.
 

Olivier

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 19, 2010
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Don't know how to do multiple quotes on a single post so.... :eek:


Well, yes and no. If one person survives then I suppose you could say that the strategy worked. But considering people lost cash, the survivor has to give out money (if he does), people have to collect weapons, run back to the hole, and all of the other time consuming BS, then I suppose you could say that it worked.
I was talking about no casualties or 1


But does that mean it was a good strategy? Did that maximize damage, cash, time, and survivability? Are the players better now? Did they learn anything?
Depends on the players so we can't tell.


Yeah, the team survived by putting themselves in a hole but they are no better, as a team or individuals, than they were one wave before.
Why?


And you got lucky. What if 2 Pounders were behind the door along with a couple scrakes, husks, sirens, and so on. Then all of them were released on the team instantly?
If the FPs would have spawned in the stairs, i would have tell the team to get to the end of the hallway and i would have unwelded the door. And don't make scenarios, when something's big like a FP is on the other side of the door, i won't waste time.


That's the problem with barricading and welding doors. When someone welds a door, they create a problem. A problem that they have no idea how big or how constructed. It is much better to just kill them as they show up.
Thats your opinion and i won't argue with you about it.


Why not?
See above


Unless you turn the corner and there is a big stack of them there. Or they spawn on top of you as you are running through a hallway. OR any other situation that occurs when the team has to break and no one knows where to go or what to do.
Thats a risk and don't tell me that roaming through the map won't be risky too.
 

Undedd Jester

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 31, 2009
3,059
881
0
Sheffield, England
I cba to find appropriate quotes and annotate them.

WARNING WALL OF TEXT INCOMING!


So here goes:

Bottom line, camping works in all games. Play any first person shooter and good players generally run around, bad players tend to camp. But good players constantly get irritated by bad players because they get killed by them just because they are camping. I myself am not a big fan of campers, but even I camp to some degree to listen out for enemies and try and get thedrop on them.

Take CSS for example, you watch any mix and most of the time pros will camp and try to get a pick before they attack. Or they attack when they have greater numbers. If you try just running about and shooting like a nut, any good player will have you easily. That being said running about can catch people off guard, because it can allow you to get the first shot off, so it is all relative.

The difference is, in Killing Floor you have long range weapons, and specimens generally dont, and there are far fewer survivors than specimens. So if can keep them at range and kill them before they reach you, regardless of how you do it, you'll beat them everytime.

Camping and welding doors forces specimens to take the long way round to players, or break down the door, which gives players more time to kill the specimens. The difficulty of Killing Floor is killing them before they reach you, and when camping its the big threats that cause the most issue. However most of these big threats are faster than the player anyway. So moving around still doesn't give you the advantage against the big boys.

Quite simply camping is the best strategy in smaller maps. Maps like West London and Farm are big and open with plenty of room to maneouvuer, so keeping on the move can work, but on closed off narrow hallway maps like Biotics Lab, Offices and Manor keeping on the move doesn't work because its all too easy to get boxed in and surrounded. And that is what camping and welding avoids. It avoids getting surrounded.

Furthermore holding back a group behind a door forces them to bunch up, making it much easier tom gank them all together. Welding doors then having a pipe bomb and a couple of nades with the M79 will cause a massive amount of damage being inflicted very quickly. Support specialists also benefit from bunched up specimens, since they have massive penetration and scatter on their weapons too.

Welding admittedly isn't great for sharpshooters, but thats not what that class specialises in, and isn't how a SHAPRSHOOTER should really play, but other classes do benefit from welding and camping. However this strategy of welding also helps sharpshooters as well since they can now sit in a safe zone, keeping specimens at long range and pick them off as they see fit.

The fact is every strategy is relative. I personally am absolutely useless with the commando and die more often than not when playing one, and I'm not particularly hot with the Sharpshooter either. However other players are really good with them. In fact they are exceptional with them. I personally am much better at medic and the firebug, since medic speed allows me to pick things off slowly while avoiding damage, and the whole damage over time thing works for me.

This is where you get an adult opinion of things, since I used to be (and to an extent still am) rather stubborn, and would refuse to accept that I'm wrong if I honour my principles. So I understand that Nutterbutter may feel that welding and camping is cheap and boring and unskilled, but it DOES work, it simply cannot be argued that it does work, and work well.

And lets face it, in a real zombie apocalyspe you can be damned sure I will do whatever I have to to keep as many zombies as far away from me as possible

J*
 
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Moratinur

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 15, 2009
115
22
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/update



Sooo, I played my first game after a month of pausing.

You know what happened? After 3 minutes of playing I decided to check out the stairs that were behind the door that we camped (2 meters away). So I went there shot a few zombies and noticed that there are too many for me to handle. So I decide to turn around and go back to the door.....................................which was welded now apparently they welded it the second I moved a few meters away from it.


Sorry the mechanics in this game are so easily abused. I never had so much griefing and assholishness in any other online coop game.
I play WoW, and at least people there have a goal other than being dicks all the time.
 

Benjamin

Grizzled Veteran
May 17, 2009
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I've had some really good fun in maps like Doom2 where many of us would play with low level perks on hard, and we'd camp in the blue room welding the door for a while until we couldn't hold it any longer. It was fun because when the specimens broke the door down they'd all flood in so quickly (especially if there were FPs around) and we didn't know if we'd survive it. It was a real challenge to get rid of them all before running out of space to back into.
 

gusone

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 2, 2009
1,507
270
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Sidcup
steamcommunity.com
/update



Sooo, I played my first game after a month of pausing.

You know what happened? After 3 minutes of playing I decided to check out the stairs that were behind the door that we camped (2 meters away). So I went there shot a few zombies and noticed that there are too many for me to handle. So I decide to turn around and go back to the door.....................................which was welded now apparently they welded it the second I moved a few meters away from it.

Sorry the mechanics in this game are so easily abused. I never had so much griefing and assholishness in any other online coop game.
I play WoW, and at least people there have a goal other than being dicks all the time.

So you ran off on your own and did a Han Solo leaving your mates behind. Thereby stealing kills they would have shared. However when things got too hot you went scampering back to the other players hoping they would save your backside. In the meantime they had welded a door because some lunatic had just run off on a solo mission and left them to fend for themselves. So they welded the door since spawns get interesting if there is a Han Solo out there disrupting the the flow. Now in this example you gave us 1/ who really is the a$$hole and 2/ have you not become the thing you claim to hate in this game - a kill stealing Han Solo?
 
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Moratinur

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 15, 2009
115
22
0
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++nd. Thereby stealing kills they would have shared. However when things got too hot you went scampering back to the other players hoping they would save your backside. In the meantime they had welded a door because some lunatic had just run off on a solo mission and left them to fend for themselves. So they welded the door since spawns get interesting if there is a Han Solo out there disrupting the the flow. Now in this example you gave us 1/ who really is the a$$hole and 2/ have you not become the thing you claim to hate in this game - a kill stealing Han Solo?[/QUOTE]

Wa? They had like 400 kills and t3 weapons (Just joined that game), also they still had clear sight on the stairs (I didnt block anything) so they could have easily shot anything that came out. And the only reason why I checked the stairs was that no ZEDs were coming and it being a custom map I never played I thought they were stuck somewhere. Also there was only one spawn point there, and those were down the stairs (I didn't know that)

You know that thing that is called communication? Instead of being an *** they could have just typed "get back here" instead of killing me.

Also kill stealing with a lever action rifle against camping M14s and SCARs is kinda hard.........but oh well.

PS: People pissed me off all the time and doing stupid stuff or rambo. But I never locked someone out on purpose to leave him to die. Especially if they didn't do anything wrong.
 
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smalldemon

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 3, 2010
87
15
0
Quebec, Canada
.......in a "coop" game. Blocking traders (it still happens on custom maps), soloing so they get the most kills, not healing, voice chat has to be turned off because there are just so many asshats spamming stupid nonsense over it, killing clots that are on fire and 100 meters away, you join wave 9 and nobody gives money (and everyone has 150 kills+).

I also avoid servers where people from one clan play, most of the time they are just a pain to play with. I once had a situation where a clan member gave me money and then the other 2 clan members started screaming and bossing him that their rule is not to give money to other people that are not from the clan.

Also a nice thing is when you hold a position and then turn around just to notice that everyone left. When you ask why they left then they tell you (if they say anything at all) that they don't want to be around noobs and just get as many kills as possible.

Yesterday I joined a server and as soon as I said "hi" I was insulted and ordered to leave the server immediatly because they wanted to level support...............wtf?

I mean, when I compare the community to L4D, then the L4D has a much better community. Ok you get the occasional teamkiller but most of the time people help each other out. The reason is the design of the game, KFs biggest flaw is that you get the most money for killing rather than surviving and helping your team.

I understand what you mean, but dont get it wrong: most of the people playing KF are really good teammates. It's just that, well, you can't possibly get rid of every idiots on the world, can you? Everybody experienced what you felt here, just don't let that give you a bad opinion of the game, with good people, it really kicks ***. Personnaly, I think KF is such a better game than L4D, but that's my opinion. :p
 

SMIFF

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2009
1,811
804
0
PS: People pissed me off all the time and doing stupid stuff or rambo. But I never locked someone out on purpose to leave him to die. Especially if they didn't do anything wrong.

You should try it sometime, with your friends or something, hilarious to see them try to overpower my level 6 support welding before the fleshpound greets them. lol