The bullet/wall penetration Problem

[Eule]

I do not know if people recognize till now, but it depends only on the texture you are shooting on if you are able to penetrate this object or not.

And the most objects/textures are NOT penetrable.

That leads to "funny" happenings:

Best example:
@ "APARTMENTS" first capzone.
The houses of the defenders looking like they are made of red brick wall.
The wall is only some few centimeters thick!!!
On the other side of this wall there is a smooth plastered in-room-wall texture.

No matter which weapon, distance or angle you try....you will have NO CHANCE of penetrating this ****ing thin red brick wall texture to kill someone behind....
BUUUUUT if you stand on the other side of THIS wall and shooting on the smooth in-room-texture you will penetrate this wall and this red brick wall texture too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is a big plus for the defenders and a minus for the attackers.

Conclusion:
So no matter which texture is on the other side of a wall....you only have to look if you shoot the right texture.

Till now i only recognized 3 type of textures which were defined by the developers to be penetrable:
- wooden boards
- the smooth plastered textures in rooms
- and smooth plastered walls on "Grainelevator" which consists of reinforced concrete .... LOL....no comment

All other textures are impervious.

Some people may say....:
"hey... does not matter....the guns were anyway only able to penetrate thin wooden boards and thin corrugated iron sheets."

My answer: Far from it!

To get an rough idea of the protection an object/wall can provide i did some fast researchs, calculations and approximations.

In place of the all pistols and sub-machine-guns i chose the P-38 pistol.
In place for all bolt action and semi-automatic rifles and light/heavy machine guns i chose the K98k rifle.
And last but not least the PTRS-41 as representive for the most powerful infantry weapon on the RO:HOS battlefield (but be careful with the ballistics of this gun by shooting on weak materials ...for some reasons i think only the steel and the (not reinforced) concrete are more or less reliable.

The impact-angle should be point blank (0

 

[Proud_God]

Yes, penetration seems to be lacking for alot of walls.

 

[stray cat]

I think you might be wrong.
From what I can see it probably works like this:

Penetration depends on wall texture, thickness and weapon. And the walls of grain elevator being penetrable makes perfect sense because it is a civilian building.
Also, while most brick walls in apartment are indeed impenetrable by rifles, they are not against PTRS41. (Played on an all weapons allowed DM server once, and it went through any wall I fired through.)

 

[Eule]

I think you might be wrong.
From what I can see it probably works like this:

Penetration depends on wall texture, thickness and weapon. And the walls of grain elevator being penetrable makes perfect sense because it is a civilian building.
Also, while most brick walls in apartment are indeed impenetrable by rifles, they are not against PTRS41. (Played on an all weapons allowed DM server once, and it went through any wall I fired through.)

- I did NOT have the same experience like you had.

Even in case you PTRS really is able to penetrate a red brick wall like these on "apartments" map...do you can answer me two questions?:

- Refering to my data-chart in the attachments above, why are other weapons not able to penetrate the red brick wall for example?
​

- And why these weapons are adventurously able to penetrate the same wall from the other side ?
​

 

[Razvanss]

Very good post,i'm a RO vet and i'm sick and tired of this bul****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Golf33]

Bullet penetration is a great addition to the game, but only when it works. There's definitely some strange things happening...

I think the DP penetration is also a bit off - it doesn't seem to penetrate fences on Spartanovka, while the MG34 goes through them pretty well - but then the DP is able to go through the Town Hall walls from the inside just fine. More testing needed to confirm whether I'm right about the wooden fences or not.

 

[Le0]

This is something I'd like to research more, where did you get the fact that the penetration is texture dependent? Did someone actually search in the SDK code for this? I was thinking about making a simple map with various different type of walls to test the penetration and if it really revolves only around the texture or not.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

In reality the 9x19 Parabellum will most certainly not penetrate 14.1 cm of brick, heck even shooting steel cored bullets it will only approach 10 cm of brick !

With a lead cored bullet the 9x19 Para can penetrate around 4-5 cm of brick, and it's the same story with the 7.62x25 Tokarev. It is only when shooting steel cored bullets that the 9x19 Parabellum approaches 10 cm of penetration against brick.

Keeping the above information in mind whilst knowing that just a single layer of std. european brick is 12+ cm thick, and that most buildings feature not one but two layers, plus insulation in between, and it is quite obvious that pistol rounds should not penetrate the brick walls ingame at any distance.

 

[KrvKrvavu]

Bullet penetration is a great addition to the game, but only when it works. There's definitely some strange things happening...

I think the DP penetration is also a bit off - it doesn't seem to penetrate fences on Spartanovka, while the MG34 goes through them pretty well - but then the DP is able to go through the Town Hall walls from the inside just fine. More testing needed to confirm whether I'm right about the wooden fences or not.

Regarding DP 28 penatration, I found one interesting picure, from some amateur arheoloigical digging - take a look at the picure od DP drum and its contents - bullets with black tops are armour piercing ones? There is a lot of them in the drum... i dont know how much of a wall 7,62x54R AP round can pierce, but i think soldiers love them.
In one documentarie i saw they were talking how much US soldiers loved BAR with AP rounds, with it they coud kill germans in house etc..
Here is the DP 28 drum :
[url]http://englishrussia.com/2010/12/08/spooky-wartime-findings/[/URL]

 

[Eremin]

How you can say if a wall can be penetrated or not?You fired with real weapons? I remember you that a 7,62x54 FMJ penetrate only 5 mm of steel and that a solid brik is 25 cm depth.Also in maps like pavlov house i can penetrate many walls with the anti tank rifle.

 

[Krobar]

I cant read the blue text it seems important but it's straining my eyes to read, had to highlight it.

Though I do agree, enough "balance" crap, too much "balance" causes imbalance. Appropriate quality and quantity of items, or in this case scenery and terrain, really screws up the way things play out and would be better if everything was physically accurate.

 

[Mormegil]

Bullet penetration is a great addition to the game, but only when it works. There's definitely some strange things happening...

I think the DP penetration is also a bit off - it doesn't seem to penetrate fences on Spartanovka, while the MG34 goes through them pretty well - but then the DP is able to go through the Town Hall walls from the inside just fine. More testing needed to confirm whether I'm right about the wooden fences or not.

I don't think that's correct. I kill lots of people through the fences with the DP on Sparta.

If you really want to test this, do some controlled experiments with a friend standing half behind the wall, and shoot each other through the wall at the covered half of the body.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

"The bullet/wall penetration Problem"​

Not a problem for me...... :IS2:

 

[Richey79]

Penetration seems pretty good to me (titter-ye-not ).

I have a suspicion that a lot of peoples' frustrations with issues like this and hit detection is down to the wounding system and delayed kill notifications. More than half the time you'll either injure someone, or make them play a slow bleed-out animation, leading you to think your bullets disappeared into thin air.

 

[Raneman]

Also, the DP can't seem to penetrate the ticket booth at D on CH. Can it? I swear I may have gotten a few kills through the walls there.

 

[Kirq]

Wow, that sounds like a developement shortcut that went really wrong

 

[DAT]

Nothing better than shooting some one through a wall with the AT rifle and have them cry foul!

 

[Schreq]

twi has gone for some kind of whitelist model when it comes to penetration. So a mapper has to set texture properties for what is penetrate-able, or better yet which material it is. So some mappers did a good job of consistently setting up all/most walls (barracks) and some did a miserable job like with commissars house where some walls are only penetrate-able from one side, but not the other

The better approach would have been to make it a blacklist instead - Everything is penetrate-able until a mapper says wall x or mesh123 is not.

There is far too much stuff blocking bullets in a game with penetration. It's just silly to not hit a guy because you hit that small metal railing for example.

 

[Raneman]

I agree we need more penetration, especially on machine guns. Rifle sized rounds hitting in a small area is going to tear through most cover and you don't want to be on the other side.

 

[Calumhm]

Agreed, although if we switched to a highly penetrable default setting, we could ruin the defence of some cap-zones etc without realising