FNG / Fresh Meat
- Jun 2, 2013
As the games focuses on Stalingrad(yes in my opinion also a bad decision) it should show the Panzer IV as it was most likely during Stalingrad. Most of the older Pz. IV got uparmoured after Stalingrad. Even if one doesn't apply the factor that one doesn't care about Stalingrad, an uparmouring of the Pz. IV would seriously affect gameplay. All of a sudden the T-34 would really struggle to penetrate the Pz. IV frontally. Given that we have direct balance in RO2 against the indirect in RO1, i would say this would break the balance.
I agree it would be bad for balance, but I think the tank should be named F2/G instead, as it is not a "real" G but rather a renamed F2. There are no significant differences. The "real" G's with upscaled armor etc started production in June 1942 and became half of all new Panzer IVs in November-December (and 100% in early January 1943 I believe).
If i remember correctly, the 5cm KwK39 had the same results as the 5cm KwK38 against the T-34 and KW-1. Both were only really effective against the side and rear at close range. I remember also that it was stated that when engaging T-34 tanks frontally one should aim for the driver's hatch. But that doesn't qualify the Pz. III as beeing abled to frontally penetrate the T-34 for me. If i remember correctly all the 7,5cm KwK40 etc. were abled to penetrate the T-34 at ranges which they wouldn't by just counting penetration and armour.
L/60 performance was obviously better than L/42 performance. Here are some gems I found in an old thread on axishistory.com:
A "Panzerbeschusstafel" from March 1943 shows the range and areas which 5cm L/60 tank gunners should fire at vs the T-34 in order to be sure to achieve penetration:
- Turret front plate, 100 meters with PzGr 38 and 40
- Hull front, the narrow vertical part where upper and lower hull meets, 100 meters with PzGr 40
- Turret side, 600 meters with PzGr 38, 500 meters with PzGr 40
- Upper hull side, PzGr 38 500 meters, PzGr 40 400 meters
- Lower hull side, PzGr 38 1000 meters, PzGr 40 800 meters, but maximum range for the PzGr 40 was set to 600 meters
- Rear turret, PzGr 38 600 meters, PzGr 40 500 meters
- Rear hull, PzGr 38 and 40, 300 meters
So even though the front could be penetrated, the areas, the front turret plate and the narrow band on the hull front, were very small.
The only note is that "Pzgr 38" might be a typing error, as that ammo doesn't exist. Or maybe it's the alternative name for something, I suspect the Pzgr39 is meant instead. Also to keep in mind is that this is from a field manual, which usually put "safe" (lower) figures in there to make the crew more cautious and secure the kills as to not risk their lives needlessly or ammunition. So they could very well be longer. And the figures are obviously without any beneficial angles for the PzIII, just regular combat situations.
Also, apparently the driver's hatch could too be penetrated from the front after a shot or two, which could cause serious havok and damage for the tank (penetration, shot trap ricochet, turret jam, etc).
One of the Soviet reports also found in the thread, concerning some issues with KV1's and T34's:
TECHNICAL REPORT FROM THE 10th TANK DIVISION, AUGUST 1941
[The original Russian transcript came to me from Mr. Charles Sharp. It is a report signed by the commander of the 10th Tank Division, dated 2 August 1941.)
The division’s soldiers and commanders spoke of their tanks as very reliable machines. But along with these qualities they had the following defects:
1) For the KV tanks:
a) Under the impact of shells and large-caliber bullets, the turret ring and armored cupolas can jam.
b) The diesel engine has little reserve power, resulting in it being overloaded and overheating.
c) The main and side clutches break down.
2. For the T-34:
a) Hull armor is penetrated at 300 to 400 meters by a 37-mm antitank round. Side armor is penetrated by a 20-mm antitank round. When crossing ditches the low set of the vehicle causes its nose to dig in, and traction with the ground is insufficient due to the relative smoothness of the tracks.
b) With a direct hit by a shell the driver’s front hatch collapses.
c) The vehicle’s treads are weak—any round takes them off.
d) The main and side clutches break down.