Teleporting Zeds Are A Game Balance Issue

[-main-]

Plese dont. Get rid of it. I see them spawning all the time to places that were empty a sec ago, to places that they couldnt get anyway. Use vents and other BELIEVABLE spawn places for zeds to enter map, dont just spawn them willy nilly.
Played sucidal yesterday, last 5 enemies = 5 scrakes.
They were behind us, we turned a corner and suddenly 2 scrakes from behind and 3 in front of us close range from 3 directions.
We were surrounded and all dead very quickly. I hate this "feature", spoils tactics, gameplay, logic, fun.

This does not make sense.
There are better ways.
Lazy solution.

Also see here on steam forums. Many ppl with same thoughts. Sorry for sounding grumpy, just had enough, its no fun. Ruins great game.

 

[Rhenna]

It seems possible to me that, perhaps, this teleportation thing was added due to the maps being as large and complex as they are. Since the survivors can sprint now, and there are far-away places to sprint to, it would be pretty easy to leave the horde way behind. Nobody would like that for very long, so the specimens get to Houdini around the map. Not a very satisfactory solution. Once spawned, a specimen shouldn't get to re-spawn.

(Way too early to make any judgements, but, I hope because Tripwire obviously has the technology and talent to create large, complex levels, that it doesn't tempt them to get too carried away in that regard. It can happen. For examples, see Unreal Tournament 2003 and Unreal Tournament III. Quite a number of very beautiful, creative maps that were absolutely horrible from a game-play standpoint. Sometimes bigger is most definitely *not* better.)

If a team is scattered to the winds within a map, I wonder just how difficult it would be to turn off all the spawning volumes that might be within a certain radius of each, individual player. (Who is probably moving, as well.) Doesn't seem like it would be an easy thing to code. But, I don't write code for a living.

Anyway, as an alternative, I think I'd much prefer the "speed-up" option for any specimen not in sight. Even if the mob you thought you outran arrives much sooner than anticipated, at least their axis-of-approach would be consistent with their last known position. I think that alone would address 90% of the angst associated with teleporting. But, with the added consideration that this should work both ways, for both players and zeds. The Gorefast in your six o'clock shouldn't get to turbo in on you simply because you haven't yet have eyes on him.

I've said this in the past; the TWI "core" maps should, as much as possible, have zeds emerging through doors, windows, grates, caves, etc. Other logical places would be over walls, and off of cliffs and rooftops. Spawning volumes in player-accessible areas should be quite minimal, unless the nature of the map just doesn't leave much choice. (KF-Farm.) Seeing zeds spawn probably can't be eliminated entirely, but it should be exceedingly rare.

 

[-main-]

Agreed. There could be some sort of AI director that would lead zeds so they would surround you and block your escape routes. If you re running away from FP and a group of lesser zeds, make it so part of the group would split and take other route to surround you and other part do the same so you have 3 sources of enemies closing on you etc. This way it would be harder and logical. Some zeds can go back to vents and emerge somewhere else and coordinate the whole wave so it would work together.

 

[outofrealman]

Agreed. There could be some sort of AI director that would lead zeds so they would surround you and block your escape routes. If you re running away from FP and a group of lesser zeds, make it so part of the group would split and take other route to surround you and other part do the same so you have 3 sources of enemies closing on you etc. This way it would be harder and logical. Some zeds can go back to vents and emerge somewhere else and coordinate the whole wave so it would work together.

The vents actually make me recall my days with dead space. The enemies will sprint back to the vents from time to time and you wont exactly know which vent they will burst out of.

 

[Kadon Alastyre]

My opinion.

My opinion.

It should be removed completely. TWI should know where people would camp most, and with that, they should add a flag that makes the difficulty higher in that/those specific area(s). Teleporting ruins the point of strategy, and there wasn't a single problem with trash Zeds slowly dying off at the end of a round. If anything, I feel that should be the action that's done. Because you're going into a game of dice where it asks you to get the right number every time or you lose.

 

[simplecat]

If someone's interested here's a bit of detail of zed teleportation http://www.reddit.com/r/killingfloor/comments/35tbuf/some_info_about_zed_teleportation/

 

[-main-]

It should be removed completely. TWI should know where people would camp most, and with that, they should add a flag that makes the difficulty higher in that/those specific area(s).

Thats a good idea.

If you need to teleport, teleport zeds that havent been seen by any player yet, so they are closer to us or in better position to surround us. But dont put them anywhere illogical.

 

[Greasy_Mullet]

What scares me the most is the overwhelming majority absolutly hate this feature yet there has been no communication at all about it from TW as to their point of view on this issue and what steps they will take (if any) to fix/remove this feature.

For me this feature is a deal breaker and flat out ruins the game for me. If I could change just 1 thing it would be the removal of this POS feature.

 

[-main-]

What scares me the most is the overwhelming majority absolutly hate this feature yet there has been no communication at all about it from TW as to their point of view on this issue and what steps they will take (if any) to fix/remove this feature.

For me this feature is a deal breaker and flat out ruins the game for me. If I could change just 1 thing it would be the removal of this POS feature.

You re my PR or what? Thats exactly how I feel.

 

[vealck]

I'd say that this whole mess is an effect of not thinking things through.

I mean, players now have an ability to sprint. What is the whole point of that feature, if the very same thing they can run from, magically appears in front of them?

There was no rational reason to introduce such feature, other than 'every other modern game has sprinting!' But to counter greatly increased survivability given by that ability, now most zeds can charge, and teleport on top of that. KF1 was kinda tactical - you had limited speed (forget the utterly broken zerk for a moment), so did your enemies, there was an emphasis on target prioritization and accurate shots. Now, it's just a fast-paced clusterf***.

Spawn system in KF1 was primitive and goddamn awful - and it's not improved in KF2 - enemies still appear from the thin air in places that were clear a second ago, and teleporting makes it all even more ridiculous. Does it make game harder? Sure, but when things operate outside the very laws of physics that game world is trying to somehow simulate - that's the very definition of an artificial difficulty.

Global zed AI director (giving zeds rage speed and directing them other way to surprise players) and stamina system for players probably could fix that. If not - well, people can adapt to everything... for example people could learn how exactly system works and there will be designated players on the team running backwards and keeping an eye on zeds to prevent them from teleporting, etc. But that would be even more ridiculous than things in KF1 kiting games, like killing zeds slowly.

It would be just sad if people in order to survive had to put emphasis on battling silly game mechanics, and not the actual enemies.

 

[Greasy_Mullet]

I'd say that this whole mess is an effect of not thinking things through.

I mean, players now have an ability to sprint. What is the whole point of that feature, if the very same thing they can run from, magically appears in front of them?

There was no rational reason to introduce such feature, other than 'every other modern game has sprinting!' But to counter greatly increased survivability given by that ability, now most zeds can charge, and teleport on top of that. KF1 was kinda tactical - you had limited speed (forget the utterly broken zerk for a moment), so did your enemies, there was an emphasis on target prioritization and accurate shots. Now, it's just a fast-paced clusterf***.

Spawn system in KF1 was primitive and goddamn awful - and it's not improved in KF2 - enemies still appear from the thin air in places that were clear a second ago, and teleporting makes it all even more ridiculous. Does it make game harder? Sure, but when things operate outside the very laws of physics that game world is trying to somehow simulate - that's the very definition of an artificial difficulty.

Global zed AI director (giving zeds rage speed and directing them other way to surprise players) and stamina system for players probably could fix that. If not - well, people can adapt to everything... for example people could learn how exactly system works and there will be designated players on the team running backwards and keeping an eye on zeds to prevent them from teleporting, etc. But that would be even more ridiculous than things in KF1 kiting games, like killing zeds slowly.

It would be just sad if people in order to survive had to put emphasis on battling silly game mechanics, and not the actual enemies.

Perhaps thats the other problem with the teleport system that nobody is talking about yet and that is bad spawn locations that allow zeds to spawn out of thin air in the middle of your group.

I could not agree more that teleporting and poor spawn placement of zeds is at the core of what this thread is really about and why so many people are frustrated. It removes the tactical aspect of the game and makes it much more spammy.

 

[SteelaiRizel]

Yeah, i have seen it a lot myself, i recently switched to Suicidal and was having a freakin excellent time.

Then i experienced teleporting at it's worst. Before i had no issues in Normal and Hard since i could just mow them down but this...

Lets just say i had two FPs on one side and two Scrakes on the other. I had just entered the hallways and literally saw both groups tele out of thin air in the corners of my vision. I was sandwiched with no way out. I fought hard and managed to kill 1 Scrake and 1 FP before i was slaughtered.

This seriously needs to be fixed. I am currently only playing this lightly due to this issue. I prefer playing Toukiden, Hero Siege, and Tera right now while waiting.

If this issue never gets addressed i don't know if i will stay around. I loved KF1 but this is just messed up artificial difficulty.

 

[naksiloth]

Global zed AI director (giving zeds rage speed and directing them other way to surprise players) and stamina system for players probably could fix that.

^I'm in for that.
A stamina system could solve many problems and can be tied to "Grab auto-turn" system too also will add some "horror" to bland-console-shootan act.

As for topic again, I foresee 3 solutions;
-Disabling that teleport system all around, and inventing a new specimen who can teleport around the map or go close combat with players in a blink. Also other specimen to be added for the sake of keeping old KF1 Fleshpound mechanics and most of old Scrake mechanics (which is hard to abuse).
-Give lesser clot variants like Cyst and Slasher a decaying life span once they're enraged or so. So game will keep spawning specimen at the front if you keep ignoring.
-Disable the teleport thingy altogether; UNLESS game spawned the very last batch of maximum specimen amount that map can contain for that wave. So unlikely to last 15 specimen in a wave following you on your tail whereever you go.

Anything besides 3rd is wishful thinking, I guess.

 

[nameis]

Is anyone paying attention?

Is anyone paying attention?

Are any of the dev's paying attention to what's being said in the Steam forums concerning zed teleportation for KF2?

 

[RoyLaPoutre]

Are any of the dev's paying attention to what's being said in the Steam forums concerning zed teleportation for KF2?

They said they were taking very seriously all the feedback they have on the forums. That means they're listening. Problem is, we still have no idea of their intentions. It could be "yeah, we understand and we see teleporting zeds is an issue, we'll remove it" or "deal with it, it's an intended mechanic, we don't have a problem with it". Who knows ? That's what bothers me the most... Same thing on berserker or medic balancing issues. Or any of our big concerns. Kinda disappointing for an EA.

 

[Curunir]

Listening is one thing, discussing the issues and acting on them is another. And yes, it really is pretty disappointing for an early access game as it goes against the very reason games do EA.

 

[poosh]

They said they were taking very seriously all the feedback they have on the forums. That means they're listening. Problem is, we still have no idea of their intentions. It could be "yeah, we understand and we see teleporting zeds is an issue, we'll remove it" or "deal with it, it's an intended mechanic, we don't have a problem with it". Who knows ? That's what bothers me the most... Same thing on berserker or medic balancing issues. Or any of our big concerns. Kinda disappointing for an EA.

Devs have no time to post on forums. They are too busy with putting achievement items on the maps.

 

[RoyLaPoutre]

Devs have no time to post on forums. They are too busy with putting achievement items on the maps.

Of course, I totally forgot about those... They need time to hide them carefully

 

[MikeHoncho]

This weekend I had 3 separate occasions of a scrake appearing out of thin air dead center in the room we had welded ourselves into. It literally materialized out of nothing about a foot off the ground and immediately went into a spin combo. C'mon TWI .

 

[RoyLaPoutre]

This weekend I had 3 separate occasions of a scrake appearing out of thin air dead center in the room we had welded ourselves into. It literally materialized out of nothing about a foot off the ground and immediately went into a spin combo. C'mon TWI .

That happens A LOT. And the irony is that after all TWI said about wanting to prevent camping, they choose that teleporting mechanic which actually forces players to settle down in one place since kiting is pretty ineffective right now due to endless reappearing zeds.