teh count

[dextronaut]

And what's the reasoning there?

its not fair that a person who does this for a living should be allowed to enter a competition like this.

imagine if i was once a fighter pilot in Nam, and theres a competition for who can fly a plane better, i enter it laughing because my competition is all a buncha self taught weekenders, but i dont tell anyone of my previous time with the US airforce, as a fighter pilot. the other pilots think, "hes just like us, another self taught rookie". is that shady? underhanded? if you knew my background, would youve entered the competition? if you knew my background, would you say everyone has an equal chance of flying their plane?

thats all im going to say ;-) whats done is done, and although i feel it isnt moral, its entirely legal to do. i was raised a different way, following morals, doing what my heart tells me, success really means nothing to me, its how i feel at the end of the night that matters.

not going to discuss it anymore, but if anyone has a moral objection to more than 1 map being entered, then please state your case.

 

[[TW]Ramm-Jaeger]

another rule shouldve been:

You may not be a former employee of any video game company including Ubisoft, Valve, Eidos, EA, or TWI.

We already discussed this in PM and I'll say the same thing here that I said there. The main point of the map contest is to get lots of cool custom content created for the fans. And we want the best custom content that we can get. If we limited it to people without any professional experience that limits the maps that will get submitted. So let me put it another way, its all about the fans. Better maps means the fans win.

And the other point I made in the PM. When the Red Orchestra mod team entered the Make Something Unreal contest, we were one of the few finalists that wasn't a professional game development studio. We were just a bunch of talented amateurs, and we managed to beat all the rest. So in other words, people shouldn't whine about how good the competition, rather they should step up to the plate themselves. We did, and mappers in this contest could as well.

 

[dextronaut]

So let me put it another way, its all about the fans. Better maps means the fans win. People shouldn't whine about how good the competition is, rather they should step up to the plate themselves. We did, and mappers in this contest could as well.

the results of the competition is all about the fans, but the competition itself is all about the mappers. i imagine if the other mappers were aware of the competition they were facing, they wouldve voiced their opinion about it. but i understand TWI or said person not saying anything because that wouldve sparked quite a bit of anger among the other entries.

TWI winning the contest was because RO was fun, not because it looked great, waterworks winning wave 1 was because it looked great, not because it was fun. totally different. arramus stepped upto the plate with brewery but didnt win, his map was fun, and well optimized but didnt look as great, same goes for justfilth.

ive thought about all this long and hard, and i feel like ill never be totally satisified with how wave 1 turned out. hopefully wave 2 turns out better.

 

[Murphy]

TWI winning the contest was because RO was fun, not because it looked great,

RO wasn't just fun! The quality of the mod was rivaling AAA retail games at the time! There were some quality mods in the contest and depending on what kind of game you like some could have been even more fun than RO, but none could seriously compete with RO's sheer quality.

RO:Ostfront was slightly technically dated when it came out (in the eyes of folks who care about technicalities too much, mind you. It still looked fine enough to easily compete with the likes of Battlefield 2!) because it was released a lot later than the mod!

Also, waterworks is fun. I'm beginning to get tired of folks trying to demerit its win. It clearly deserved 1st place.

As for professionals in the contest: Your example with the pilots lacks a vital detail! See, the mapping contest wasn't held as a contest by and for mappers to get some mappers together and see who can do best. It was held by a game company to stimulate the production of maps. It was about the maps and the maps only! TWI wanted quality maps and rather than hiring a bunch of freelancers to make some they offered a prize to get people to make maps for free in hopes of winning the money (or a mouse, or a pen. @TWI: Next wave give every contestant a pen, please. Just as a souvenir! Can't cost all that much, right?).
Your example with the pilots would only capture what the mapping contest is about if the pilot contest was held to determine who should fly one super difficult mission to save the president or something. It doesn't matter if someone is an amateur, a professional or a veteran. What matters is to find the best of the best for the job.
This is also why mappers could submit more than one map. Because it wasn't about the mappers but about the maps!

One thing I agree about though is that I also thought it was a bit strange that JustFilth got three prizes for his three maps and if I would have been in charge I would have let his maps win their place, give him the prize for the highest ranking one and give him a special mention somewhere but give the other two prizes to the two next best maps. Just to get more people a little recognition for their work.
But don't get me wrong, it's not like he doesn't deserve his goodies! @Filthy: I'm happy for you. I truly am. I just would have done it differently.

 

[dextronaut]

RO wasn't just fun! The quality of the mod was rivaling AAA retail games at the time! There were some quality mods in the contest and depending on what kind of game you like some could have been even more fun than RO, but none could seriously compete with RO's sheer quality.

RO:Ostfront was slightly technically dated when it came out (in the eyes of folks who care about technicalities too much, mind you. It still looked fine enough to easily compete with the likes of Battlefield 2!) because it was released a lot later than the mod!

Also, waterworks is fun. I'm beginning to get tired of folks trying to demerit its win. It clearly deserved 1st place.

As for professionals in the contest: Your example with the pilots lacks a vital detail! See, the mapping contest wasn't held as a contest by and for mappers to get some mappers together and see who can do best. It was held by a game company to stimulate the production of maps. It was about the maps and the maps only! TWI wanted quality maps and rather than hiring a bunch of freelancers to make some they offered a prize to get people to make maps for free in hopes of winning the money (or a mouse, or a pen. @TWI: Next wave give every contestant a pen, please. Just as a souvenir! Can't cost all that much, right?).
Your example with the pilots would only capture what the mapping contest is about if the pilot contest was held to determine who should fly one super difficult mission to save the president or something. It doesn't matter if someone is an amateur, a professional or a veteran. What matters is to find the best of the best for the job.
This is also why mappers could submit more than one map. Because it wasn't about the mappers but about the maps!

One thing I agree about though is that I also thought it was a bit strange that JustFilth got three prizes for his three maps and if I would have been in charge I would have let his maps win their place, give him the prize for the highest ranking one and give him a special mention somewhere but give the other two prizes to the two next best maps. Just to get more people a little recognition for their work.
But don't get me wrong, it's not like he doesn't deserve his goodies! @Filthy: I'm happy for you. I truly am. I just would have done it differently.

I firmly disagree with you murphy, and I would write a equally lengthy reply back, but I have a glass of chambord thats getting warm. But I will say that the competition didn't allow for awesome maps, since awesome maps were already around before the competition.

PS: I agree that Waterworks deserved first place. I've never said it didn't.

 

[Benjamin]

Also, waterworks is fun. I'm beginning to get tired of folks trying to demerit its win. It clearly deserved 1st place.

Agreed, I enjoy playing waterworks. It's designed very well - always leaving you somewhere to run - and it's quite large! And of course it looks very nice which I think should have some significance.

 

[Murphy]

But I will say that the competition didn't allow for awesome maps, since awesome maps were already around before the competition.

Can you explain this please when you have secured your beverages from getting stale?

 

[dextronaut]

Can you explain this please when you have secured your beverages from getting stale?

there were awesome maps already being made even before the competition was announced.

 

[Murphy]

I'm not going to argue that - Filthy was working on his maps before anyone even knew about the competition - but how does this amount to

But I will say that the competition didn't allow for awesome maps, since awesome maps were already around before the competition.

I don't get the connection.

 

[omarfw]

there were awesome maps already being made even before the competition was announced.

I think the competition sure helped a lot though

The competition allowed for awesome maps more quickly

 

[Moosecat]

Question is, how are you going to run background checks on people who live under aliases and pay-pal accounts?

Besides that, this contest was a monstrous success. I've got the chance to play and test more maps on this game than I have for TF2, and if I've got my math right I'm pretty sure TF2 has been out longer.

P.S. Who's gonna be playing borderlands on pc?

 

[JustFilth]

K a couple of things...

the darkest road - again, it was nice, but again? with more blood? i think wave 2 is looking for... well you get the picture.

Lol dex you find blood in dr and ill eat my dads soggy pants, Again? it was never entered in wave 1. I think you need to check the map more closely trooper, from the dr-f version ( released prior to any mention of the comp ) to the latest release (Wave2 entry) there has been a tremendous amount of work put into it in technical details, layout and gameplay. ( best viewed through editor ). Not pissed about the comment dex, you know i love you really .

One thing I agree about though is that I also thought it was a bit strange that JustFilth got three prizes for his three maps and if I would have been in charge I would have let his maps win their place, give him the prize for the highest ranking one and give him a special mention somewhere but give the other two prizes to the two next best maps. Just to get more people a little recognition for their work.
But don't get me wrong, it's not like he doesn't deserve his goodies! @Filthy: I'm happy for you. I truly am. I just would have done it differently.

I was just as surprised by the results as much as anyone, truly. One thing i came away with was the thought that the judges used must of had an independent stance for the main. I can't see any company risking alienating members of their own community or as is in my case burdening others, yes it's becoming a pain, in such a blatant manner.

I can see the prizes dragging out all the freelancers, advanced coders, designers and so forth but this little trooper is gonna at least try stick it to em

The above quote was taken from the first thread made about the comp in news section. I truly believed then and still now that there would of been a lot more advanced/professional mappers/teams and so forth submitting entries into both waves. Luckily for me there was not.

for myself I think I had a lucky break, if the big boys had come out to play i tell you now not one of us would of had a hope in hell, wave 2 entries included. I have been a gamer for the last decade and have seen some real works of art produced in my time. we truly are just little fish in a big ocean.

 

[gusone]

It's a catch 22. Either Filthy wins and gets a prize on each of his maps' individual merits (and very well deserved in my view) or the inverse...and we would be arguing why some people won a prize when clearly their map is a load of horse manure but TWI had a spare mouse and a keyboard and it had to go to someone other than Filthy. Either way we would still be arguing.

Anyway as long as people keep having a dig at Filthy (and EVERYONE would agree KF would be a less enjoyable game without his portfolio of maps) I'll keep whinging about Waterworks haha.

 

[JustFilth]

It's not so much about having a dig at me Gus although I think i've been lucky now again to avoid the odd snipe that's come my way. It's more of a point of Filthy This Filthy That... it should of been this it should of been that.

I think my problem is im just to overrated for my actual skill level .

the point is win or lose it was fun for all , a challenge for all and above everything a learning kerb for all.

I'm not just saying this because i won places in wave1. Like i said if the big boys had turned up and stole the show I would of taken it on the chin and used it to better myself for the next round.

Winning was a great joy in my life. Just a shame I could not share it.

Filthy.

 

[oscar.nein]

TWI winning the contest was because RO was fun, not because it looked great, waterworks winning wave 1 was because it looked great, not because it was fun. totally different. arramus stepped upto the plate with brewery but didnt win, his map was fun, and well optimized but didnt look as great, same goes for justfilth.

Just to get this straight, when judging the contest maps, we were judging the maps based on a multitude of categories. This means the top winners had the best OVERALL quality amongst the entrants. We don't define quality by how good it looks. It's just one factor.

 

[dextronaut]

Lol dex you find blood in dr and ill eat my dads soggy pants, Again? it was never entered in wave 1. I think you need to check the map more closely trooper, from the dr-f version ( released prior to any mention of the comp ) to the latest release (Wave2 entry) there has been a tremendous amount of work put into it in technical details, layout and gameplay. ( best viewed through editor ). Not pissed about the comment dex, you know i love you really .

i love you too haha but was kinda startled that you didnt cook something new up for the competition. ive checked out the new hospital version, it was great, not 10 times greater than the original, but it was great. the only thing that looked odd was the pile of skulls. ill have to check out darkest road, it had some flow problems but maybe you fixed those in the new version.

Just to get this straight, when judging the contest maps, we were judging the maps based on a multitude of categories. This means the top winners had the best OVERALL quality amongst the entrants. We don't define quality by how good it looks. It's just one factor.

then how do you explain corner market?! that map makes me want to punch babies.

 

[The Wanderer]

Dex, it's not because you or anyone you know don't like to play waterworks, that there aren't any people out there who share the same opinion. I actually enjoyed playing waterworks, and i see no reason why so much hate towards the gameplay of the map is being vented here.

 

[JustFilth]

was kinda startled that you didnt cook something new up for the competition.

HAHA I did not map for the comp just submitted what i already had just thought id give it a go. You know in for a penny in for a pound lol.

Loves and cuddles

Filthy.

 

[dextronaut]

Dex, it's not because you or anyone you know don't like to play waterworks, that there aren't any people out there who share the same opinion. I actually enjoyed playing waterworks, and i see no reason why so much hate towards the gameplay of the map is being vented here.

so much hate is being vented here?! i already said waterworks deserves 1st. it looks great, it runs great, and the gameplay is so so. the guy used to do this stuff for a living when he worked in Ubisoft, so i wouldnt expect anything less.

i dont enjoy playing waterworks, and very rarely is a server in the middle of running waterworks. most of the time its shinobis maps because theyre great for beginners or ppl who want a relaxing game.

 

[Nanostrike]

Unless I go out of my way to search for it, I never see any servers playing Waterworks. The general consensus amongst my friends is that it looks amazing, but beyond looks, it's only an okay map.

Just because a map wins the contest doesn't mean it's instantly gonna be the most played. In all honesty, I see many, many times more KF-Doom2 and KF-Deathpit than Waterworks or Corner Market...