Teamkiller !!

[Venoml3e]

hey, I'd like to start of with my impressions so far, maybe it will make it easier to understand my POV.

Keep in mind that I'm a total RO noob I just started playing this weekend but I'm picking up the pace of the game, coming from BF made it rather hard the first couple of games. It felt like starting from scratch again. I'm shure you all know the difference between the games so i dont need to take this any further

Anyway Second day on the game I've began to see how it all does work out if you respect how you "should" play this game. I've gone trough some rage moments obviously, first that rly stood out was how I never knew where to look for enemys & almost always ended up being shot in the back or never knew where from. That has improved a lot now that i know how the game works (spawn/obj/progression)

I still find it verry hard to tell the difference between friend/foe at times and sadly it seems that some have way more problems with this then I do.

Anyhow I get seriously pissed off from the teamkilling, I actually ragequit due to it a couple times allready in the short time i've played RO (I'm not a ragequitter normaly, only bad team stacking or strange rules make me hit disconnect)

so Teamkillers;
Mistakes happen, I think we all experience it first hand at one or another point but in some situations it's pure lazyness of players that causes it.

Skins of teams should be a good start, in some situations this just is not enough to be shure & then I open my map to verify what I'm looking at.
(you can also do this in advance; just before entering an area quickly look on the map if there are no friendlys around)

Now for some reason players manage to teamkill in a 50m range of the friendly spawn.
Same thing when you try to use the flanks, I find myself being killed by friendlys a lot more often then by enemys when taking a flank route. I seriously do not understand this and again this makes the rage meter go way up in the red as you take time to move up and then BLAMO TEAMKILLER .... lolnope try again all over

So the idea i have, how about some sort of method to make players Respect their friendlys somewhat more.

*Shared damage is one idea that is verry effective (9/10 times it would mean having both players killed, call me a *tuut* but i could live with that )
*Demoting the class options for the player. Let's say an assault goes FUBAR to much, he get's kicked back to rifleman and can't swap to anything else then that for the round. (I think this would fit realism, i dont think any person in the right mind would give an MG to a person that can't tell friend from foe)

The idea I had myself is to make the teamkiller die instead of the friendly he just killed (but only if you do it more then 1x) so basicly you swap possition with the TKer(or he simply dies) & He gets to wait for the next spawnwave, who knows in the mean while he just might adjust his playstyle somewhat.

An easy written "sry" is cheap IMO. like i said it happens that you get surprised but it feels to me that this is not the case in most situations, it's just plain stoopid lazy nub stuff & it happens to frequently (just check chat...)

Was this an issue in the previous RO ?
does it become a less frequent issue once maps/game are know better ?
IDK I'm trying to convince myself this wont make me rage as much down the road. Yesterday was rly bad, there's a saying about drivers who only get on the road on sundays ... maybe that goes for games aswell

what do you think ?

One other thing i would really like is a (SP) shooting range, targets at different distances and moving ones.
ATM I can't kill anything above 100m. I've been messing a little with the Iron sights last games i played but I still fail far to much to my likings, it is also verry hard to tell what I'm doing wrong, I'm familiar with leading/bullet drop & in most games i can get slightly above average play. In RO2 all i can do is move up close enough AND HOPE I DONT GET TK doing that (sry just had to )

 

[Lucan946]

IMO the idea with "You die instead of the teamkiller" is rather ineffective. While making it only happen if you kill the same person more than once does sound rather reasonable, in practice it could be hard. For instance, say you throw a grenade into a room that has a bunch of enemies in it and then two of your teammates rush in and both get killed by your grenade. Assuming they didn't see the grenade go in, no one is at fault here. Sometimes **** just happens. But then it still kills you instead of your teammates, which would make for some first-class raging.

I do however like your suggestion about how if someone with a MG or SMG teamkills too much he's forced to run with a bolt action rifle (a better punishment would be gluing him to the Hull MG seat of a T-34 ). That sounds perfectly fine and could work and I think the honor system in place sort've enforces something that is in the same vein as that but perhaps rather different. In my opinion though shared damage is just incredibly frustrating, since sometimes a TK happens when your teammate decides it would be a great idea to run straight through your line of fire.

 

[Bowcaster]

I think the points off for TKing should go like this. 1st time, ok everyone makes mistakes -5. 2nd time, you make a lot of mistakes... -10. 3rd time, go back to CoD BOOTED.

In RO1 it used to be that 3 TKs and you got booted, why not anymore? I am serious when I say probably 1/4th of my deaths are from TKs, and good games where I die only twice, usually one of those is a TK, that's 50%!

Players will not learn to not TK when all they get is -2. Getting booted a couple of times will teach em.

 

[markopoika]

I'd like to have optional auto-forgive feature in game.. If someone teamkills you with purpose then typing "complain" or something would penalize them.

 

[7.62Thunder]

I got Tked 4 times today in one round. First 3 were from average slow minded Tkers that walk around the corner and blast whatever moves. And the last one was from some new guy dropping a grenade in spawn.

 

[JohnKimble]

I think team kills where a single bullet or grenade hit both targets(friend,enemy) or if you kill a teammate which is overlapping an enemy in front of you it should be forgiven.

 

[Floyd]

Its all server side configurable. From damage, to number of TKs', to arty damage, etc. Too many TK's may get you kicked, session banned or banned. There will be an honor system that should handle the habitual TK'ers. There is a forgive option. FF happens in the game and on the battlefield. I would imagine that after a few weeks, things will get sorted out and server admins will tighten up the numbers if need be.

Floyd

 

[Timppaface]

What is the point if friendly fire anyways if the shooter is the one dying? At that point it would be simplier to just remove friendly fire.

IMO friendly fire is fine as it is, but the TK kick system is the way to go.

 

[Elpy]

Imo teamkilling is fine. Actually I really like the way it is. Because sometimes people fo accidentally shoot teammates because it might quickly look like it's a enemy. A few times I've accidentally shot a teammate while he has been at far distance and ran quickly past my sight so I've mistaken him for an enemy. And few times I've been aiming at some windows where I know there is an enemy and then suddenly a teammate pops his head out of the window and you know what happens .

And then sometimes it happens to me. It's war, so it's chaotic and it can sometimes be hard to tell if it's a friend or foe. Quite often I do look at the map to check for allies but sometimes I just dont have the time or I react too fast. I could imagine that there some accidents in ww2 irl as well.

But then of course there are some situations where I cant understand it, like the ones that you said where an ally comes from behind and slaughters whole squad.. Since he's close he should easily see they are friendly.
And for example yesterday I saw an ally come from behind so I targeted him and after a few seconds of looking I realized it was a friendly so I didnt shoot and put down my sight. Funny enough though he was aiming at me for the whole duration as well and just as I lowered my aim he popped my head off .

Anyway, point being that it just happens accidentally often and I think it just gives more to the game. But obviously continuous and intentional teamkilling should be punished somehow.

 

[realninja]

99% of the teamkillings are stupid ppl running into the line of fire ,and running thru you ,just becuse they can .. the other 0,9% are ppl who run into a room you just trew a grenade into .. and 0,1% are bad eyesight, becuse everything is very small in this game, unless u have a 30" monitor

 

[realninja]

and if friendly fire is removed, tell me before the release so i can cancel the preorder

 

[Vyllis]

Your system can promote future griefs too. How?
It happened to me that some idiot just discovered a new technique.

He followed me (with the squad system i presume) and clipped trough me in cover when i open fire. Until i got kick.

Let you think if he is able to punish me, demoting me or whatever.

 

[Venoml3e]

IMO the idea with "You die instead of the teamkiller" is rather ineffective.
Indeed, This would create more problems then it would fix. I thought at first it would be good because from the perspective of the one getting TKed its about the best you can get. But in the end it's ineffective I agree.
I do however like your suggestion about how if someone with a MG or SMG teamkills too much he's forced to run with a bolt action rifle (a better punishment would be gluing him to the Hull MG seat of a T-34 ). That sounds perfectly fine and could work and I think the honor system in place sort've enforces something that is in the same vein as that but perhaps rather different.
For me personally the point system works, the extra of "demotion" to Bolt user is IMO also good but has some drawbacks, It rly is annoying but we gotta keep certain players in mind and if they dont get their beloved gun for whatever reason it might actually do the opposite of what it intends to do. -_-

I think the points off for TKing should go like this. 1st time, ok everyone makes mistakes -5. 2nd time, you make a lot of mistakes... -10. 3rd time, go back to CoD BOOTED.

In RO1 it used to be that 3 TKs and you got booted, why not anymore? I am serious when I say probably 1/4th of my deaths are from TKs, and good games where I die only twice, usually one of those is a TK, that's 50%!

Players will not learn to not TK when all they get is -2. Getting booted a couple of times will teach em.
3 TK = boot sounds good to me.

Its all server side configurable. From damage, to number of TKs', to arty damage, etc. Too many TK's may get you kicked, session banned or banned. There will be an honor system that should handle the habitual TK'ers. There is a forgive option. FF happens in the game and on the battlefield. I would imagine that after a few weeks, things will get sorted out and server admins will tighten up the numbers if need be.

Floyd
It's good to hear that, I've aslo noticed on some servers the quality of play is just of a higher level and it verry rarely happens that i get TK there. If admins have influence on dealing with this it should be enough.

What is the point if friendly fire anyways if the shooter is the one dying? At that point it would be simplier to just remove friendly fire.

IMO friendly fire is fine as it is, but the TK kick system is the way to go.
The day I posted the topic it seemed problematic, i got killed more from friendly fire then from enemys, out of frustration i put forward some ideas to solve it, I agree TK kick/ban is the way to go

And for example yesterday I saw an ally come from behind so I targeted him and after a few seconds of looking I realized it was a friendly so I didnt shoot and put down my sight. Funny enough though he was aiming at me for the whole duration as well and just as I lowered my aim he popped my head off .

This was/is probably also part of the problem for me, I played mostly BF and that plays verry different combine that with me being a agressive player and I could have created the situation myself;
I run upfront(or flank) to enemy cap then turn & look back to make shure my 6 is clear .. there happens to be a friendly there on who I aim to make shure I'm safe or not, he gets spooked because I'm in a hostile zone and I have my aim on him, he decides to shoot because when it all goes so fast and it all seems to be what it isn't the TK happens.
I've adjusted how i play somewhat, if i'm in this situation i wont put my aim up directly at them, i think it gives 'em just the extra time they need to realise i'm not an enemy. "Defensive agressive play" if that makes sense lol.

and if friendly fire is removed, tell me before the release so i can cancel the preorder
Never mentioned it should be removed, even on BF i prefer playing with FF on. It adds another thing to the game that makes it interesting. Only a fool would cancel the preorder for this game !! It rly is something else for a change and I like it.

Your system can promote future griefs too. How?
It happened to me that some idiot just discovered a new technique.

He followed me (with the squad system i presume) and clipped trough me in cover when i open fire. Until i got kick.

Let you think if he is able to punish me, demoting me or whatever.
Yeah I was not thinking about griefers when i wrote this, Kick/Ban like mentioned earlier and some admin options should suffice combined with using Favo server list.

Thanks for the responses, I was still somewhat in Rage mode when i made the topic. Basicly what i get from it is that server admins have power over this & have the tools to deal with it & I need to play a bit smarter in some situations or find better servers.

 

[Starsandbars]

Ok, i agree with Venom to a degree, I Have accidently Tk'd my fair share of team mates but at like 200+ meters out everyone looks identical you cant tell who is who.. my last TK was at 128 meters out.. he looked like a damn german poking out shooting an MP40.

Can we get like a tag to pop up if we aim at a friendly?