Tanks, Quantity or Realism?

[ChaoticRambo]

So the game shipped with two tanks available for each side, the Panzer IV, and T-34. These are the most obvious tanks to pick because they were the most prevalent during the war.

However, many of the great joys I had in RO1 was being able to pick which tank I wanted to use.

I am worried that this option will never be available do to the extreme amount of time it takes to build a tank - 3 months.

So my question is, would you rather sacrifice a little bit of realism for more variety in vehicles. I honestly couldn't care less what the inside of the tank looks like, sure it is neat to look at the first time you get into a tank, but after that, never looked at it again.

I personally would be just fine with having the damage models present but 0 interior to the tanks if it got us more variety.

I would also like to ask how easy it is even going to be for these modders who are going to save the game to build vehicles. Is it going to take them just as long, are they going to be held accountable for making each vehicle just as realistic as the ones given to us by TWI?

 

[[5.SS]VonHerrmann]

RO2 killed tanking for myself. I do enjoy it but it's just so limited.

 

[Overholt]

Realism please, I am tired of having super powered light tanks or underpowered heavy tanks. The community can easily make tanks, there is a guy who just made a boat load of models while he was waiting for game to release. All we need to do is code, animate, texturize, and make interior, dont think it should be to hard, we dont need everything to be exact. I only care about the science that goes into the models as I am a massive math/physics nerd. (TAKE A LOOK AT THIS FOR THE MODELS ALREADY DONE BY COMMUNITY http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=66729 HERE IS A GOOD WORK IN PROGRESS BY COMMUNITY MEMBER http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3664395/kingtiger render.jpg)

 

[{BHC}Savage]

The tanking in RO1 was superb to the style of Ro2 tanking. I dont like using the mouse for turret controls. I prefer using WASD. The ability to swap ammo without clearing the breach is a big no no..... Cant just instantaneously switch ammo types without unloading and reloading a different shell...

For armor combat RO1 is still the cat's pajamas hands down.

 

[dogbadger]

.... All we need to do is code, animate, texturize, and make interior, dont think it should be to hard....

you're kidding - making an exterior model, like the ones that have been already been shown in the forums, is the easy bit - not least because it's the most enjoyable part.
It was already a nightmare amount of work just for RO....

 

[MikkOwl]

I would prefer less but high quality vehicles, such as done presently. I really enjoy the interiors, even though I don't get to look at them too much in the small hectic maps, singlehandedly crewing a whole tank. The few times (it was very buggy) I had a friend in the tank, I had more time to look around inside (such as when driver but tank stationary). It is cool.

If tanks behaved more realistically (armour issues versus AT rifles, reloading breech when switching ammo type, manual reloading, ability to turn turret at maximum speed with two keys instead of the bizarre mouse vs arrow keys) and respawned less frequently, they would be used with more caution and survive longer, giving more quality time inside. Larger maps, especially when having infantry, half-tracks, AT guns etc such as in "Darkest Hour", helps too.

 

[dweeb]

I think a better title for your thread would be DETAIL or quantity. Obviously everyone wants tanks with proper armor values and so on. The question is if one would rather have lots of tanks with simple or no interiors etc. Or a few ultra detailed tanks.

I was wondering about this in regards to modding as well. I almost wonder if it would be possible to basically import the ro1 vehicle system alongside the new one. Vehicles such as halftracks will almost need to work more like ro1 vehicles anyway. (for example, you need to allow a half track driver or gunner or obviously passenger to get in/out of the vehicle)

 

[Sufyan]

I don't see the point comparing RO1 content to RO2. Five years worth of content outshining Day 1 content, big surprise.

I don't think RO2 needs a large amount of tanks to be enjoyable. If RO2 remains entirely Stalingrad/late 1942 then there really shouldn't be that much variation in tanks. This is before Soviet assault guns, Tigers and panthers. If anything there would be more light tanks (T60, T70, Panzer II, Panzer III) tearing infantry apart, with main guns unsuited for tank on tank action. Equipment only got interesting in the latter half of 1943.

 

[MikkOwl]

I think a better title for your thread would be DETAIL or quantity. Obviously everyone wants tanks with proper armor values and so on. The question is if one would rather have lots of tanks with simple or no interiors etc. Or a few ultra detailed tanks.

I was wondering about this in regards to modding as well. I almost wonder if it would be possible to basically import the ro1 vehicle system alongside the new one. Vehicles such as halftracks will almost need to work more like ro1 vehicles anyway. (for example, you need to allow a half track driver or gunner or obviously passenger to get in/out of the vehicle)

Ultra-detailed is what I want, I guess.

Half-tracks (German 251 at least) has at least two positions, including great offensive weaponry (a MG34 behind a gunshield potenially). An infantry fighting vehicle. With ultra-detail a vehicle like this could include totally realistic mount & dismount animations for the passengers, which would be super awesome compared to the 'teleport in and out - behind the vehicle' stuff we have been seeing in most games. Immersive. I cannot make up my mind as to if the crew should be able to disembark. They do command an expensive and useful IFV and should not treat it as something to throw away.

On the other hand, unlike tanks, they are more likely to get too close to the action (with their infantry cargo) and get a track disabled etc, unable to go anywhere or use the MG34. I think the best solution is that these crew can disembark - but only when 'scuttling' their armored vehicle.

I really like how well defined the tank crews are currently (locked in their tank, spawning in their tank). The tanks respawning instantly and there always being two pairs of tanks I think is not so good. Perhaps disembarking only when scuttling is a good middle ground - gives them something to do while waiting for the much longer respawn time I crave. On these small maps, they hardly get to do any benny-hilling on the countryside with pistols. Rather they would appear close to the objectives and their own infantry, easily within walking distance of a respawn area or whatever.

 

[CaptHawkeye]

RO2 has the best tanking i've seen so far in a game. The presence of AI bots allows multi crew tanks to be feasible without gobbling up player counts.

That said I would have liked to see a few more vehicles on release than just two tanks. Would've been nice to maybe see the KV-1 or Panzer III on release too.

 

[captain max707]

I'm willing to wait for nice tanks.

 

[The_Pharoah]

I don't see the point comparing RO1 content to RO2. Five years worth of content outshining Day 1 content, big surprise.

I don't think RO2 needs a large amount of tanks to be enjoyable. If RO2 remains entirely Stalingrad/late 1942 then there really shouldn't be that much variation in tanks. This is before Soviet assault guns, Tigers and panthers. If anything there would be more light tanks (T60, T70, Panzer II, Panzer III) tearing infantry apart, with main guns unsuited for tank on tank action. Equipment only got interesting in the latter half of 1943.

I just watched an excellent doco on the History channel (called "Tank Battles" from memory) one of which was the Stalingrad tank battles - yes there were numerous and quite wide scale (including the real Gumrak ie. the russian attack on the airfields airlifting ammo/food/etc to the trapped 6th Army - note: IRL there were no german tanks...it was russian tanks vs A/T guns - the russian tanks ran out of ammo and just rammed the Junkers 52s that were parked there). Anyway, the doco showed how the main tank battles were between the following:

German:
PIVs
Stug IIIs (I think it was the ver III but definitely the Stug)

Russian:
T34s
KV1s

thats atleast twice as many tanks as there are now. oh, and there were quite a few large tank battles in towns.

We certainly need more tank maps. I hate seeing 64 player Gumrak only servers empty.

 

[Dr.Atkins]

Tanking;

RO1 > RO2 > DH > (RO2 + mods after a year)

I am still optimistic that RO2's huge potential in tanking will overcome the now better DH mechanics and content.

Everyone can now see from the server list how well the Gumrak and RO2 tanking is doing.

RO2 needs more tank variety, more tank maps and revised post-penetration system, + the plethora of other stuff that needs tweaking;

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=65420
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=67669
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=67730

Has there been any change/fix/whatnot for tanks after the release? (exc. the half-*** solution for vehicle voip). Has any of the devs even mentioned tanks since the release in the any of their posts? Do they care about the matter or is it just so low in the resource-allocation list that they don't bother talking about it?

 

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

The tanking in RO1 was superb to the style of Ro2 tanking. I dont like using the mouse for turret controls. I prefer using WASD. The ability to swap ammo without clearing the breach is a big no no..... Cant just instantaneously switch ammo types without unloading and reloading a different shell...

For armor combat RO1 is still the cat's pajamas hands down.

We must have been playing different games. RO had better tanking as a mod than it did for OST.

 

[Jippofin]

I find tank gameplay extremely boring. On maps like Comissars or Fallen Fighters they pretty much decide the winner of the battle by blocking infantry advance with MG's. But there are 1-2 routes by which you can drive in to battle. This means that the tank vs. tank battle is reduced to short exchange of fire from known positions. Then after few seconds of waiting the lost party drives to the same position again and the same is repeated until the end of round. Worst part is that if either side doesn't want to man the tanks, they will most likely loose.

Tank vs. tank combat is not fun. Mostly all rounds hit and the loser is the one that randomly explodes first. I've shot Pz4's from front @ 300m and got 1 shot kills, and I've shot them from the rear multiple times at 25m (zero deflection) and have not got a kill. It seems that the most efficient place to kill a T34 is to hit the gun mantlet a few times after which it explodes. On the other hand hitting the lower side armor underneath the turret, between the roadwheels, seems to have no ill effect on the tank. In the real world that would be the place where one should gain one shot kills more than anything.

Game rewards "gunnery lottery" tanking where tanks are parked facing each other, and doesn't reward manouvering to the flanks. The most important thing is to get one's gun laid first and to start reducing enemies "hit-points".

For reference on tank sims, a quick look at Steel Beasts could be considered.

Ps. I would actually reduce the number of "tank appearances" on all maps. Much like the recon plane, I would like the tanks only appear 2-3 times per battle with very long respawn times. This would actually change the tank tactics quite a bit and reward killing the tanks more by giving time to manouver with infantry until they again re-appear.

 

[defektive]

The RO2 tank model feels like little more than a hastily cobbled together afterthought with only two, admittedly very nicely made, tanks. I can understand and even accept only having two tanks if the rest of RO2's tanking game was there, but it simply isn't: the damage model is clearly very, very wrong; there are no good tank maps, nor be there any half-way decent combined arms maps; and the McRepair drive-thru bays are nothing short of insulting.

If the tank model in RO2 is to get anywhere close to the one in RO (even before you factor in the superb modded RO1 tank offerings) then there is still a massive amount of work that needs doing.

 

[Sufyan]

Do you people seriously mean to criticise RO2 tanking as if this is how it is always going to be? Just two tanks and one tank combat map? It is fine if you want to air your disappointment with how little tank content there is to the day 1 release of RO2, but it makes no sense to compare it to Ostfront or Darkest Hour which both has seen several content updates post-release.

It is very clearly still in development, so any criticism should take that into account.

 

[Verluste]

Tanking;

RO1 > RO2 > DH > (RO2 + mods after a year)

I am still optimistic that RO2's huge potential in tanking will overcome the now better DH mechanics and content.

Everyone can now see from the server list how well the Gumrak and RO2 tanking is doing.

RO2 needs more tank variety, more tank maps and revised post-penetration system, + the plethora of other stuff that needs tweaking;

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=65420http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=65420
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=67669http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=67669
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=67730http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=67730

Has there been any change/fix/whatnot for tanks after the release? (exc. the half-*** solution for vehicle voip). Has any of the devs even mentioned tanks since the release in the any of their posts? Do they care about the matter or is it just so low in the resource-allocation list that they don't bother talking about it?

Sorry but DH has the best tanking simulation of all the games. And the most variety. You should try it out. It beats RO1 tanking on all fronts.

DH team really did a great job on that. It disappointments me that TWI even decided to put tanks in RO2 looking at the current state (= very bad) of the tankcode/system/variety.

 

[ComeAndSee]

I think they should go for realism, but not total considering we only have 1 tank for each side. Both are about equal in overall power : armor ratio considering each could realistically kill each other on first shot during the war.

The Sherman was a match for the PZ4 and the T-34-85 (Korea), but anything bigger than that you had problems. :IS2:

Also, did anyone here play Forgotten Hope for BF1942? That was a pretty fun tank simulator.

 

[Dr.Atkins]

Sorry but DH has the best tanking simulation of all the games. And the most variety. You should try it out. It beats RO1 tanking on all fronts.

DH team really did a great job on that. It disappointments me that TWI even decided to put tanks in RO2 looking at the current state (= very bad) of the tankcode/system/variety.

Perhaps my presentation was somewhat bad. The comparing of the games was meant to mean that DH is above the current RO2 but I am expecting RO2 to bypass DH when RO2 gets more content and fixes and mods etc...
RO1 tanking is a joke, though still better than in most arcade whatnot shooters.

So I do agree that at the moment DH (while having its fare share of issues) is the best tanking game out there. It is kind of a shame that RO2 took most of the DH player base away and now there isn't much game going on in DH... :/