Tanking; and 'one-man-tanking' in ROHOS - hopefully with a POLL

[Calumhm]

The poll's questions are limiting.

All AFVs should be fully-crewed with AI tankers performing the crew position functions, until replaced by players.

This "hotseating" (replacing) ability should in fact become a core option for military sims/games, where gamers could choose the positions they wanted to fight from, while a battle raged, by replacing the AI troops in the game at any point during the battle.

In this way, the "shooter" game could evolve into the battle "simulator", and back and forth, as players could assume the most important/active roles, and at the most important points of the action.

But for Heroes, I'd just be happy with good tank crew AI, and with the ability for players to replace any of these respective AI crew/positions.

P.S. Isn't multi-crewing/hotseating already part of some tank sims already.....Steel Fury (Eastern Front -Kharkov 1942) comes to mind. Btw, some of us here like playing tanks sims too.

I actually really like this - I hate bots with a passion, but the thought of having tanks NEVER leave spawn with less than full crew is delicious.

I would note though, Trip would have to work hard to not make bots into AIM bots. MGs in particular have suffered from that in RO:OST, but I'm sure you all can imagine the devastation an aimbot Gunner could produce.

PS I was going to say something in favour of making the loss of a tank more impactful, but with a full crew almost all the time, a tank will cost 2/3 reinforcements!

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

With players entering and leaving the game all the time, there is no way to ensure you have the ideal # of players to man tanks fully. You could literally have players waiting in a tank for other players to join that never do for a whole round.

Do things to ENCOURAGE team tanking, don't force it.

 

[Nilsson]

This is about when, especially in maps like Arad and Orel, (if thats the huge tank map i'm thinking of) single players drive off in a tank and perform gunner, driver and even MG roles all on their own.

There usually isn't much disadvantage to this tactic, and it's annoying to have your whole tank team of two or three men killed by one guy.

So here's a poll for the devs to jot notes from.

I completly disagree.

On the battlefield were only "full" tanks so there should be the Option to fast switch between gun / mg and also autoreloading the gun without the need to stay at the gun position. With this changes the tank will become more realistic.

 

[EvilAmericanMan]

With players entering and leaving the game all the time, there is no way to ensure you have the ideal # of players to man tanks fully. You could literally have players waiting in a tank for other players to join that never do for a whole round.

Do things to ENCOURAGE team tanking, don't force it.

Like switching compartments taking time. Nevermind that a driver probably couldn't be a gunner (especially in the Red Army) but this is a matter of fun v realism, and I think having some sort of animation for moving around in the tank (as well as getting in and out) is the perfect way to do this. So that team tankers have an advantage.

 

[Ralfst3r]

With players entering and leaving the game all the time, there is no way to ensure you have the ideal # of players to man tanks fully. You could literally have players waiting in a tank for other players to join that never do for a whole round.

Do things to ENCOURAGE team tanking, don't force it.

Couldn't agree more. It should still be possible, but a team will be more efficient obviously.

 

[Blue Crab of PAIN!!!]

To me personally it really depends on the AI. I'm more of a single-player person, and it is almost impossible to use a tank in Ost with AI as either the gunner (who never seems to shoot) or the driver (who always points the rear armor towards the enemy). IMO there should actually be a server option to allow either single-player tanking or force team cooperation.

 

[Mormegil]

I still think forced / encouraged team tanking in combined arms maps, where there are only one or two tanks. On tank heavy maps, I think single players should control fully manned tanks with quick switching. If a crew station is hit, you loose that position.

 

[Rak]

To me this is not a question of realism, but rather a gameplay one (about poll options).

IMO it should be the third option if not the second. I don't want to have a random jerk who has no idea about tank combat jumping into my tank and ruining all the fun. Heck, devs can even implement "locking up the tanks" so that we won't have a random pub jumping in the tank and start spraying that MG and giving our position away when playing with friends.

Though I agree with Mr. Moe about encouraging teamwork in tanks. TWI can make a decent mandatory tutorial about tanks and tactics so that overall pub player will know what to do when. Also other motivating things like collecting more rank points when there are more people in your tank. e.g. if you have 4 people in your tank you earn 4x exp. points from kills.

 

[Nezzer]

IMO there should be a basic and required training for new players (just for the ones that want to play the tank role) teaching all a tankist should know. If they don't complete the training and try to select a tank crewman role in the game, a message should be shown in the screen telling the player to do the training. I think the same thing should apply for the ones looking for the squad leader role (this one using that command system we've seen in the shakey cam vid).

 

[LJFHutch]

I really hate Bad Company 2/Modern Warfare 2 point of view where one guy can operate tank, plant bomb and win whole match by self.

That's 100% necessary in Bad Company at least, otherwise the 2 players who actually try to take objectives instead of sniping each other from the ends of the map in order to preserve their K/D ratios wouldn't be able to do anything at all

 

[Tiger2]

Leave tanking as it was in RO:OST. There should not be any delays in switching from one position to the other in a tank, the multitasking alone puts a one-man tank at a great disadvantage.

Forcing full crews will make public MP unplayable and will make small private matches (i.e. 3v3) frustrating to play.

 

[Zetsumei]

Leave tanking as it was in RO:OST. There should not be any delays in switching from one position to the other in a tank, the multitasking alone puts a one-man tank at a great disadvantage.

Forcing full crews will make public MP unplayable and will make small private matches (i.e. 3v3) frustrating to play.

A one man tank is at a slight disadvantage over a 2 man tank indeed. However you cannot really shoot while driving, due to the suspension and lack of a gyroscope. Meaning that someone can pretty much multi task without any loss.

Especially when you look at 2 tanks filled with one person each, against a tank filled with 2 persons. Even if the tanks are the same the 1 man tanks, will win. The advantage of teaming up is too small currently. Which adds to the problem of needing enough tanks for every individual person, as otherwise they will be out in the spawn without any.

A delay in switching won't force anyone to team tank. It just makes it worth doing.

 

[Major_Day]

Leave tanking as it was in RO:OST. There should not be any delays in switching from one position to the other in a tank, the multitasking alone puts a one-man tank at a great disadvantage.

Forcing full crews will make public MP unplayable and will make small private matches (i.e. 3v3) frustrating to play.

Agreed +1 Leave the tanks as they are.

 

[Susi]

Well i usually get much more done with noobs, because with them
you can work together. Oki maybe they dont shoot so well, but then
you need to do more work as a driver. Or they dont drive so well
but then you need to work more as a gunner.

But if you get to same tank with a "PRO" he will tell you that there is
just one way to play this map and if you dont exactly do what he
says. Then he is just screaming every 10 second "Get out of my tank"
Rest of the time he is writeing to chat how poor his driver is.
And finally he jumps out of tank and shoot you, if your head is out from tank.

And i saw allready that some one posted that "if i command to stop
they dont stop and that is just frustrating"

Like wtf its called team work. Humans are not machines they dont do
exactly like you want, because they have their own opinion.

I i think learning team work with guys you dont know is best part
on tanking. Sometimes it needs more time with same dude on
public server. Sometimes it works allready when you get to same
tank with somebody.

You should just take relax, and enjoy about team work. Not about scores.

 

[Oldih]

Like wtf its called team work. Humans are not machines they dont do exactly like you want, because they have their own opinion.

The line between teamwork and coordination can become highly blurred one, and especially regarding the latter I find the common suicidal CHAERG tanker syndrome to be the complete opposite of teamwork and coordination. Let's say K

 

[Yono]

I think the problem is, the players unwillingness to at least try to get in to some one else's tank, and try to work together.
Don't get me wrong, I know what it's like to be driving a tank when some one gets in to the gunners slot and has no idea what to do with it.

 

[Floyd]

Well i usually get much more done with noobs, because with them
you can work together. Oki maybe they dont shoot so well, but then
you need to do more work as a driver. Or they dont drive so well
but then you need to work more as a gunner.

But if you get to same tank with a "PRO" he will tell you that there is
just one way to play this map and if you dont exactly do what he
says. Then he is just screaming every 10 second "Get out of my tank"
Rest of the time he is writeing to chat how poor his driver is.
And finally he jumps out of tank and shoot you, if your head is out from tank.

And i saw allready that some one posted that "if i command to stop
they dont stop and that is just frustrating"

Like wtf its called team work. Humans are not machines they dont do
exactly like you want, because they have their own opinion.

I i think learning team work with guys you dont know is best part
on tanking. Sometimes it needs more time with same dude on
public server. Sometimes it works allready when you get to same
tank with somebody.

You should just take relax, and enjoy about team work. Not about scores.

I like this guy

 

[Tiger2]

My call to leave everything as it is has nothing to do with poor coordination. I play big tank maps with 3-4 players. 1 man tanks are essential there as you only have one team mate.

If you force full crews, and add annoying and irritating delays for switching positions in a tank, there will not be any more teamplay. Players won't bother waiting for someone to get into their tank or trying to communicate. Tanks will just lose their popularity.

 

[Zetsumei]

Having an animation aka delay in opening the hatch of a tank never stopped people from opening their hatches.

Having a slight delay will only become annoying if you try to continuously change position, like continuously try to open up the hatch and close it.

 

[echonian]

Personally, I think leaving tanks the way they are, without even a delay for switching positions...would be foolish at best. Solo-tanking I think should stay, but I'm also a firm believer in a fully crewed tank being more effective than a solo tank.

The arguments for keeping tanks the same as they are that I've seen consist of either -

A. People are noobs, and are incompetent.

or

B. There aren't enough people in games.

A is something you'll get in any game, and most noobs CAN be talked to and worked together with if you actually try to communicate with them.

B I hope is not a problem, but that all depends on how well the game sells and how actively it is played.