Tanking; and 'one-man-tanking' in ROHOS - hopefully with a POLL
- Thread starter Calumhm
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Agreed 100%
It's the best solution not only for realism but for gameplay. The tanking system is awkward enough without slowing transitions.
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Im a big believer that people will learn what they HAVE to learn. There will always be those who are no good at tanks, but why accomodate them by creating a system designed so that you the good tankers can single man tank.
I would much rather see tanking require watching some training videos (community made), going through a small ingame instruction and show-how; all together taking no more then ~15 minutes tops.
When players join a server and select team, if they select a tank position they see a layout of all tanks and can try to 'join' into any tank they want, the layout shows who is currently in each tank. Higher ranking players can bump players who have lower skill ( lets face it the tank aces got the tigers, even whitman was in a pz3 for a while in the war!). Players will then spawn INSIDE that tank. This layout will also display which players have microphones.
(that above suggestion is a re iteration of a suggestion not made by myself)
OR an idea could be spun out of the old Team Tankers idea. When players team tank with other players they get (either by player or by player giving) some team tank (think rep basically) points, these points are visible to other tankers, so they can see if you are a reputable teamtanker and gladly hop in a tank with you.
The benefit of suggestion A is that it's more realistic, tank drivers/gunners/loaders dident all just randomly get in tanks, they had crews and stuck with that crew. It would also make coordination and getting a group of buddies into a tank much much easier. To top that off it forces players so learn to team tank, and many players never learned because they never had to do so.
Suggestion B is more of a simplistic solution where getting into tanks is almost exactly the same as it is in RO.
tl;dr? RO is a niche game that fits its niche perfectly, why bring tanks to the people who are no good at them, fit the tank niche by creating a tanking system specialised towards giving the best players the tools they need to get together and team tank!
I would much rather see tanking require watching some training videos (community made), going through a small ingame instruction and show-how; all together taking no more then ~15 minutes tops.
When players join a server and select team, if they select a tank position they see a layout of all tanks and can try to 'join' into any tank they want, the layout shows who is currently in each tank. Higher ranking players can bump players who have lower skill ( lets face it the tank aces got the tigers, even whitman was in a pz3 for a while in the war!). Players will then spawn INSIDE that tank. This layout will also display which players have microphones.
(that above suggestion is a re iteration of a suggestion not made by myself)
OR an idea could be spun out of the old Team Tankers idea. When players team tank with other players they get (either by player or by player giving) some team tank (think rep basically) points, these points are visible to other tankers, so they can see if you are a reputable teamtanker and gladly hop in a tank with you.
The benefit of suggestion A is that it's more realistic, tank drivers/gunners/loaders dident all just randomly get in tanks, they had crews and stuck with that crew. It would also make coordination and getting a group of buddies into a tank much much easier. To top that off it forces players so learn to team tank, and many players never learned because they never had to do so.
Suggestion B is more of a simplistic solution where getting into tanks is almost exactly the same as it is in RO.
tl;dr? RO is a niche game that fits its niche perfectly, why bring tanks to the people who are no good at them, fit the tank niche by creating a tanking system specialised towards giving the best players the tools they need to get together and team tank!
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Yes, Colt .45 Killer ideas in the last post, I may not agree with it all, but all in all sound much better.
Best Regards,
sdkfz181
Best Regards,
sdkfz181
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I don't because 1 man tank, even if he can teleport, is still at a disadvantage, he can't do all functions of a tank at the same time, so why giving him the disadvantage of denying positions?. Its not realistic, nor practical.
If the tank was fully crewed and the driver is killed, and they have to get out of there?, what do they do?, wait to die?, get out and get MGed?, or someone else take the driver position and get the hell out of there?.
Just add transitions, RO tanking may be awkward, but it doesn't mean RO:HoS will.
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One man tanking is never realistic, but should be allowed and indeed if a tank hits the driver compartment a one man tanker should not be able to return to the driver compartment. Until the dead body is removed at least.
But effectively I feel that 2, 1 man tanks should be somewhat similar in a way of strength to a single 2 manned tank. And I think that a small time penalty in reloading and switching positions could achieve that.
But effectively I feel that 2, 1 man tanks should be somewhat similar in a way of strength to a single 2 manned tank. And I think that a small time penalty in reloading and switching positions could achieve that.
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I'd rather have a system that you must finish offline tanking tutorial\such with positive overall marks in order to even activate crewman class online.
I might be on my own with that view, but almost every person who I bribed (so to speak
) to try out RO I always gave them small bootcamp (on private host) regarding basic features and tanks and once we went to play online all of them suddenly found appreciation as instead of being completely confused what the **** was going on they atleast knew how to avoid some of the most common ****ups I've seen some people do.
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the problem is that solo tanking is necessary and shouldn't be banned, most times someone will just get in the tank to grief and ruin your day, no matter if they know how to use them or not, most of the time is on purpose.
What I'd like is a system that ensures that you can use a tank with your friends instead of having everyone randomly spawn and make a run for it.
for example, I have two friends that are good at tanking and we want to be in the same tank, its EXTREMELY hard to achieve that right now in a public game
What I'd like is a system that ensures that you can use a tank with your friends instead of having everyone randomly spawn and make a run for it.
for example, I have two friends that are good at tanking and we want to be in the same tank, its EXTREMELY hard to achieve that right now in a public game
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So basically my suggestion but still allow those tanks to move with a 1 man crew selected in that tank. Note my suggestion would also let you pick which tank you wanted if you could boot out the 1 man noob.
@Oldith: We are shooting for the same thing by my and your suggestion, whichever works better I really dont care..
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I enjoy both single tanking, and team-tanking (especially on CA maps).
I would like to see single-tanking enabled on large tank vs. tank maps, and disabled in combined arms maps.
No single tanking on large maps makes too few available tanks on something like Arad.
Also, I would prefer that single tanking doesn't simulate changing positions, but changing control of all the different tankers in their positions. So no delay would be necessary. That means if the driver is hit, you can't switch to driver anymore - he's dead.
While I'm on a rant, I'd like to see an available dedicated tank commander position for tanks that had a separate gunner / commander. So if you have 3 people in the tank, the commander is also gunner, but you can have a 4th person come in and be the dedicated commander for better situational awareness - and he'd be able to point out direction to go and where enemies are (using the same command system we've seen in infantry).
I would like to see single-tanking enabled on large tank vs. tank maps, and disabled in combined arms maps.
No single tanking on large maps makes too few available tanks on something like Arad.
Also, I would prefer that single tanking doesn't simulate changing positions, but changing control of all the different tankers in their positions. So no delay would be necessary. That means if the driver is hit, you can't switch to driver anymore - he's dead.
While I'm on a rant, I'd like to see an available dedicated tank commander position for tanks that had a separate gunner / commander. So if you have 3 people in the tank, the commander is also gunner, but you can have a 4th person come in and be the dedicated commander for better situational awareness - and he'd be able to point out direction to go and where enemies are (using the same command system we've seen in infantry).
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Currently 2 single manned tanks are always stronger than 1 tank controlled by 2 people (due to ability to flank). Aka the current tank system encourages solo tanking till the tanks run out. At which time pretty much you have some tankers running around in the spawn because everybody drove off alone. Because of this reason maps pretty much need to have 1 tank per tanker class available and that is crooked in my opinion.
Forcing people to wait at spawn to get someone in their tank that everybody feels will ruin it for them is only annoying. People should be wanting to go tanking with a team. Even if you simulate switching to a different person I still think there should be a delay in switching even if its not an animation or whatever.
There should be an advantage of team tanking, as the tanks don't have any gyroscopic balance resulting that firing while driving is nearly impossible with any accuracy due to road bumps. And that would pretty much be the main advantage of team tanking. Since a good driver angles his tank he won't need to really turn his turret a lot and aims by turning his tank already so any advantage of aiming in a 2 man team scenario is pretty much gone as well.
Leaving the only advantage to team tanking if someone is in it for killing infantry or scanning the horizon and a small reload bonus. It makes it simply not feasible or wanted to go team tanking.
I think that teamwork should be encouraged in this game for tanking, otherwise you might as well like in other games combine the gunner and driver into 1 class.
Forcing people to wait at spawn to get someone in their tank that everybody feels will ruin it for them is only annoying. People should be wanting to go tanking with a team. Even if you simulate switching to a different person I still think there should be a delay in switching even if its not an animation or whatever.
There should be an advantage of team tanking, as the tanks don't have any gyroscopic balance resulting that firing while driving is nearly impossible with any accuracy due to road bumps. And that would pretty much be the main advantage of team tanking. Since a good driver angles his tank he won't need to really turn his turret a lot and aims by turning his tank already so any advantage of aiming in a 2 man team scenario is pretty much gone as well.
Leaving the only advantage to team tanking if someone is in it for killing infantry or scanning the horizon and a small reload bonus. It makes it simply not feasible or wanted to go team tanking.
I think that teamwork should be encouraged in this game for tanking, otherwise you might as well like in other games combine the gunner and driver into 1 class.
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I think It should be implemented from the class selection screen.
You choose to spawn inside a tank from the beginning and with whoever you want to spawn (giving priority to friends if they apply for the same tank) For example... there is a filled tank with a friend, if you apply for the same tank, one of the tankers will then be moved to a free slot of another tank.
There should be a fixed number of tanks and a fixed number of tankers for them in each map.
This way the only way you can solo tank is if the tank is not filled because there are still free tanker slots in the server, those will spawn in your tank once they choose the class.
Solo tankers should have very slow and annoying transitions (and probably a reloading speed handicap), so those guys inside the tank don't grief the others into picking some other class to leave their tank
(and yes, add that tutorial thing)
You choose to spawn inside a tank from the beginning and with whoever you want to spawn (giving priority to friends if they apply for the same tank) For example... there is a filled tank with a friend, if you apply for the same tank, one of the tankers will then be moved to a free slot of another tank.
There should be a fixed number of tanks and a fixed number of tankers for them in each map.
This way the only way you can solo tank is if the tank is not filled because there are still free tanker slots in the server, those will spawn in your tank once they choose the class.
Solo tankers should have very slow and annoying transitions (and probably a reloading speed handicap), so those guys inside the tank don't grief the others into picking some other class to leave their tank
(and yes, add that tutorial thing)
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This thread got me thinking of tank sub-classes. So I posted a new thread: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=43098
Basically, I'm suggesting that instead of "Tanker" class you would have to select "Tank gunner" or "Tank Driver" etc... And it works best with spawn inside your tank (as Fed mentioned).
Basically, I'm suggesting that instead of "Tanker" class you would have to select "Tank gunner" or "Tank Driver" etc... And it works best with spawn inside your tank (as Fed mentioned).
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True except that the advantages are stronger. I team tanked once with a random guy who had a mic on arad in a JS2. At some points we were being engaged by 3-4 enemy tanks at once, however by counting their reloads and hoping they would fire the moment theyr gun was loaded I was able to slowly drive and turn to angle to each tank for its shot. we did not loose our js2, we drove it back to spawn when it was out of ammo and red health. We ended that map with a score of ~190, best team tank with a guy ive never met before ever.
However, in terms of perception you are very very correct. Most people see no benefit to team tanking and want everyone to get out of 'their' tank. IMO there should be a position switch time of 2 seconds for all tank positions ( and all number of occupants).
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I point out once again that easiest way to reduce singletanking is to give the driver his fair share of points. He's as important as gunner. Without him no one get anywhere and the tank is in wron angle. When MG or cannon scores a point it should be distriputed to whole team working behind that shot.
But then again the gunner is one who's carrying responssibility of getting hits. However, good driver can save the crew from lousy gunner with his perfect angle of by retreating from situation. I'm getting confused here, but refer the first paragraph for my point.
PS. I hold thumbs for option 3 and forced tanking in combined maps. Or maybe forced tanking should be enabled only in HArd core realism maps?
But then again the gunner is one who's carrying responssibility of getting hits. However, good driver can save the crew from lousy gunner with his perfect angle of by retreating from situation. I'm getting confused here, but refer the first paragraph for my point.
PS. I hold thumbs for option 3 and forced tanking in combined maps. Or maybe forced tanking should be enabled only in HArd core realism maps?
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Every crewmember inside the tank will gain score if E.G. the gunner KO's enemy tank or turkeyshoots infantry in RO:Ost. Same applies if the bow-MG guy shoots some infantry guys hopping around everyone in the same tank will get points from it.
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Something that should also help:
1) dynamically adjust the amount of tanks depending on the number of (tank) players
2) losing a tank should have a higher impact. In ROOST, you only lose supply if people die, but not if tanks die. If a losing a tank would have impact on the supply pool + longer respawn of tank, people would be more inclined to team tank
1) dynamically adjust the amount of tanks depending on the number of (tank) players
2) losing a tank should have a higher impact. In ROOST, you only lose supply if people die, but not if tanks die. If a losing a tank would have impact on the supply pool + longer respawn of tank, people would be more inclined to team tank
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It destroy spirit of RO itself if there will be "single player tanks" ...
I am against puting together 2 or more roles. World ofr warcraft is that way ==>
I am against puting together 2 or more roles. World ofr warcraft is that way ==>
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The poll's questions are limiting.
All AFVs should be fully-crewed with AI tankers performing the crew position functions, until replaced by players.
This "hotseating" (replacing) ability should in fact become a core option for military sims/games, where gamers could choose the positions they wanted to fight from, while a battle raged, by replacing the AI troops in the game at any point during the battle.
In this way, the "shooter" game could evolve into the battle "simulator", and back and forth, as players could assume the most important/active roles, and at the most important points of the action.
But for Heroes, I'd just be happy with good tank crew AI, and with the ability for players to replace any of these respective AI crew/positions.
P.S. Isn't multi-crewing/hotseating already part of some tank sims already.....Steel Fury (Eastern Front -Kharkov 1942) comes to mind. Btw, some of us here like playing tanks sims too.
All AFVs should be fully-crewed with AI tankers performing the crew position functions, until replaced by players.
This "hotseating" (replacing) ability should in fact become a core option for military sims/games, where gamers could choose the positions they wanted to fight from, while a battle raged, by replacing the AI troops in the game at any point during the battle.
In this way, the "shooter" game could evolve into the battle "simulator", and back and forth, as players could assume the most important/active roles, and at the most important points of the action.
But for Heroes, I'd just be happy with good tank crew AI, and with the ability for players to replace any of these respective AI crew/positions.
P.S. Isn't multi-crewing/hotseating already part of some tank sims already.....Steel Fury (Eastern Front -Kharkov 1942) comes to mind. Btw, some of us here like playing tanks sims too.
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