Tank/panzer crews

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sdkfz181

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 20, 2009
24
0
0
Sorry, if you want realism, as many players have asked for (though it seem most are on the Germans side and in German heavy tanks at the time) then you need the loader(s) to have different time rates to load the gun for the same tank. As loader(s), just like the humans we have in RO now some are bad, or ok, good, etc. at playing RO, so the loader(s) need to have different rates for loading for the same tank. Thus if two players have M4 Sherman then each should have a various times for loader to load the gun, i.e. one tank could have the loader load the gun in 7 seconds for one tank and other M4 could load the 9 seconds.

Also, the loader now never dies unless the whole tank is Knock Out (KO), and yet in WW2 loaders could be kill and the tank not KO. For example, a AT Rifle round could go through the armor where the loader sits and could kill or wounded him, thus making the loader not be able to load the gun any more.


Again if we need to have a computer to be doing the loading for tanks, which I agree with, then why not computer doing tasks for other positions in the tank.

And if I have to go with other human, then I will not play, I will then be looking for another tank game to buy. Right now we can not even get players on my team to tell me what is happening where the are with one guy in a tank, let alone the infantry guys, or sighting of tanks, infantry, etc. If team will not help in the supply of information when they are in another tanks by themselves, how am I going to obtain help from them when they are in my tank. If we force people to share a tank then I want and need the game to force the players to report what is happen in the game where they are. Are people going to have to then force them to stay at spawn because they do not report what is happen since we are suggesting to force people to stay at spawn until a tank is full with players/bots.

Which is going to put many players off from the game, if they can only go out with a full tank of people or bots, I have seen many player leave a game when the get to spawn and there are no tanks, thus how many are going to sit in spawn to wait for the players to get in the tank with them, talk about boring. Not to mention those players on the big tank maps who leave because the have a long drive to the objective or where the fighting is, are they going to hang around waiting for full tank.

What about the maps with only one tank, then the infantry guys have a tougher time because only one person is playing the tank commander say and he sits the whole game in a tank waiting for others to join him, but no one does, fun. I know guys in RO who will not even sit in an ambush position and ambush happen a lot in WW 2.


These players who want realism in the game, which is fine by me, but thees other players only seem to want the good things. Thus, how can you force full tank rule on them, this is not good, them waiting around for a tank to become full. Then, lets get real realism, why does the game not have the tanks throw a track, which happen many, many times (to the point the some tanks had some changes to design to reduce this problem, though it still happen). Then, player can be half way to the other side of map and throw a track and thus he has to walk all the way back to the spawn or sit there hoping enemy may come by or not.

Also, could have the tanks bog down, as this happen to many times to, do players want to sit around because they got stuck in the ground/mud/marsh, etc.

What about the tanks breaking down with engine problems which happen, and the German had even more problems with the tiger and panther engine. etc. Never hear the guys on the German side who complain that the tigers have to weak armor or the guns are not as powerful as the should be, yet they do say my tiger or Panther should have broken down now as of the engine troubles they both had. Guderian had in his drive through Russia in 1941 600 tanks at the start and was down to 50 tanks, which most of that was because of break downs, only little was from enemy fire. Are we going to have a repair shop to fix and/or repair the tanks and have recover vehicles to get the tanks and put them in the repair shop for more realism.

Why not have the have more realism in the tank damage from enemy fire. Many times the tanks had the turret get stuck in one position as shell fragments got stuck in the turret ring of a tank and the turret would not move after this damage. Not to mention tanks that had damage in the engine and could not get the tank to full speed. Or the engine damage makes the engine over heat and have to make many stops. What about damage from hitting builds because of moving the turret in a city and the gun hit
 

Tiger2

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 13, 2008
501
144
0
I would say a max crew of 2 for each tank. Gunner who shoots and the commander who commands the driver and guides the gunner. Everything else is just eye candy, like bots loading shells in and TWI should only do it at the end if they have the time.
 

LemoN

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 26, 2006
6,293
2,346
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Prussotroll's Bridge
I would say a max crew of 2 for each tank. Gunner who shoots and the commander who commands the driver and guides the gunner. Everything else is just eye candy, like bots loading shells in and TWI should only do it at the end if they have the time.

uh...

so you dont want a driver?
you dont want a bow mg gunner?
 

Tiger2

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 13, 2008
501
144
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uh...

so you dont want a driver?
you dont want a bow mg gunner?

Alright, but if I am the driver I have to follow what the commander tells me. If I am the commander, I just click anywhere on the map and my A.I. driver takes me there. Bow mg gunner is fine.
 

Tiger2

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 13, 2008
501
144
0
I enjoyed playing as driver on some occasions, but the problem was that our server never had enough players to man the tanks . We were 3 or 4 people per team and we had 5 tanks. Usually we had one man per tank and sometimes 2.
 

Ermac

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 19, 2007
591
106
0
Whatever they do, they should have something to discourage players from being one man tank rambos otherwise it will suck. Maybe we should observe in real life why tanks are not operated by 1 man and apply that to the game. Make it take the same amount of time it takes to switch positions in real life. The one make tank rambo is driving along and sees an enemy tank. The fully crewed enemy tank fires a shot at the rambo. By the time the rambo switches positions, the fully crewed enemy tank fires another shot destroying the rambo.
 

Zetsumei

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
12,458
1,433
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33
Falmouth UK
Personally i hope that by switching location within a tank you see a full animation. That allows you to tank alone but gives a tad bit more of a disadvantage by having to wait longer to switch position.

So that you cannot not instantly go and reangle your tank all the time. Or use switching position to instantly stop your tank and fire.

Although possibly when the player amount is under X players, add a bot in the driver position.
 

sdkfz181

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 20, 2009
24
0
0
Sorry again I keep reading this in the posts that one tank is not real as two men would be faster.
And man could not be do what two could do.
On both of these statements I find issues with them.
First of all, I am faster the most two or more men tanks, when I am alone in tank, many times I have KO many two men tanks in RO, in MN, in CC, in DH and in AB mods, so saying that a one tank is not fast, this one does not matched I have done in the game. And I did it again two nights go in DH and got the same players twice in a row, so I know it works. And one of players in that tank was very good, as I have encounter him many time in RO, AB, and DH over the years.

Also, in Kursk a KV-1 was shot and Germans thought they KO the tank, but minutes later the KV-1 was on the move and heading to the Germans and KV-1 was shot again and it stop. Again a few minutes later this KV-1 tank was on the move again, but this time the KV-1 crash into the German heavy tank and both tanks blow up. One man tank work in this real WW2 battle. Most likely most of the crew was kill and/or wound in the KV-1 on the first shot except for one, who decide to ram the enemy and each time the German shot it, this one man was knock out, then came to, tried to continue until he was in the end successful.
Not to mention at Prokhorovka at Kursk where the Germans and USSR tanks where so close together that many USSR tanks purposely ram the German tanks and both tanks blow up, this happen many times per the personal accounts from the battle. Do you need to do this with two men or one can man does the job in both of the above accounts from WW 2.


WW2 tanks battle is about massing tanks at a single point on a enemy defence of line and breaking through the line going into the enemy rear taking out replacements vehicles / supply, cap the enemy HQ, Also, maybe surrounding the enemy so he may give up as no point to continue the fight as no more supplies will get through. And cap objectives in the rear of enemy to help future advances or just keep advancing until the enemy findly stops them. Or any combo of the above depending on the situation and what is needed, etc. And the reason I say this is that tanks are about have as many as possible for the attack and if you have 30 players per side and only full tanks can go out, you only have 5 tanks per side and on the other hand with the same number and each one taking a tank you would have 15 tanks per side, for me a student of armor, armor tactics and armor strategy 15 tanks sounds like a mass of tanks compare to 5 tanks. And would be more real battle of tanks with the high number. I have played the Black Day in July Map with 5 tanks per side and it is boring, people start to leave and the same map is much more fun with 15 or more tanks per side and more action as well.
And think of it, one side does the full tank rule and other side does one man per tank, you will have one side shooting 15 times to 5 times, with one team having 15 chances of Knocking Out (KO) the enemy, that sounds better to me than 5 times, However, the 5 tanks are a bit better at shooting, but less chances of KO. Right there you have shown how the Germans lost the war as they though better Quality could over power Quantity, which was not the case as both allies had more than the Germans (axis) and many historians say that the USSR tankers were not as good as the German (only) tankers, but they did not have to be. USSR could over power German tanks with their numbers and Stalin had no problem loosing thousands and thousands of his soldiers in a battle, this did not bother him one bit. Also, most would agree that the German tanks were better than all the allies tanks, but being better did not win the war or even stop the enemy from advancing.




Again, I think this rule of full tanks does not match what happen in WW 2, unless we can have 200 players per side and even then if one side did the one man per tank they would have over 200 chances of a tank kill and 200 tanks to 33 tanks on the other side with the full tanks, 200 is better.



Note: Right now the U.S. is trying to develop tanks with only 2 men and even 1 man in a Main Battle Tank (MBT).







Regards,


Sdkfz181
 
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sdkfz181

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 20, 2009
24
0
0
Question: We keep talking about a full manned tank and in RO it says Awaiting additional crew members now (on the internet but not in the practice part) when one gets into a tank, why is this not the same for the infantry? The infantry do not have to waiting around until they have a full infantry squad to be able leave the spawn or even a full infantry section.

We also are not say that the Halftracks need to wait around until the halftrack is full. Many times the halftracks leave with one guy, and in a couple games infantry have complained about one guy taking the halftrack and that there no more halftracks left at spawn and how much they hate that. Which when I hear that complain and I am a tanker on a map with an M5 or Stug, etc., I will take the M5 vehicle and will offer a ride to them or stug, that is of course if I am in spawn or about to re-spawn. And Halftracks I included trucks, unverisal carriers, etc.


Question: The gentlemen(s) that want the full tanks and think that would be more real, then why do you not seek players who want join you in a tank with two or more in the tank? Then you could show us that more then one person in a tank now in RO is better than one guy in a tank, then you could prove me wrong. And who is stopping you from doing it in RO now and in RO:HOS in the future. Maybe you should also consider put a realism unit and/or clan together, I might even consider join it if you do.

Best of luck on the (computer) battlefield and/or in any endeavour.


Regards,


sdkfz181
 

-[SiN]-bswearer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 3, 2008
3,460
1,942
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remember realism still has to balance with gameplay. different rates of reload? a bit too extreme. actually idk why people keep suggesting anything at all with a loader. NOBODY IS GOING TO PLAY LOADER!it would be like saying i want to be the gas station attendant and sit in spawn refueling tanks the whole round :rolleyes: /that discussion.

3 crewable positions: driver, gunner, mg, is just fine and has worked well for ROOST. i like zet's suggestion. if the time spent to switch between the positions was more realistic then that would better simulate tanking. i'm not against 1 man tanking mostly because when pubbing, there are some idiots out there that i simply do not want to tank with. however, i do think that 2/3 man tanking is realistic and a great thing for gameplay. of course that's only if you have compitent teamplayers.
 

sdkfz181

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 20, 2009
24
0
0
Hey I agree with you we do not need a human to loader, I have never every want that.

The loader time rates that is different story and that is up to you, I was trying to point out is that realism is fine, but the idea of full crew just does not fly in my view, just like Gun jamming, tank break downs, re-fuel the tanks, driver having to change gears when drive a tank, etc. All these sound and would make the game more real, but how many need it and who would play game with these and others types of more real features, is whole other matter. Ones got to be careful not to make game to hard and to real for average Joe, or even many of the hard core to, as who wants to come home from work and/or school and have to work like a real tankman, never mind waiting around for a full tank.

On top of that if you want different loading times, which is more real, I would suggest you do what I do for RO and all the mods. Which is set your Manual Tank Shell Reload to Manual instead of it reloading automatically and this gives you the same effect as have the whole game changed and forcing all to use this method.
When you bring up RO and/or any mods go to Configuration, then Game tab, check box to have Manual Tank Shell Reload. And once you are playing the game(s) you have to remember to hit R key to re-load main gun (just like infantrymen have to press R to re-load his infantry guns / small arms) or just press the left mouse button again (or what ever you have set up as your fire button in the game, if you are left handed something like that). By doing this you get the same result, except others may not have this, and I have done this for myself for the last 2 years and I am still faster lone in my tank than ones who do not have this most times, unless I forget to hit the reload, I can not blame computer if I forget then.

However, I did changed (in same area of configuration in RO) settings to have Incremental Tank Throttle though, I can dive the tank, but I am not look for realism when I am in driver's seat (which the idea on having the tank change gears, I did suggest in here to have this and I do not want this, all I was doing is to make the point we could have a lot different things for realism, but how many would want this or would play the game if brought it in to the game, not many I think (though if in the game or not in game both would fine with me, but by no means do I need it or want it).

Thus, waiting around for a full tank, do we need this or can players hook up with other like minded players who like this more real tanking and do not have to force all to have to do it. Ask people in game if they want to this in the chat area in the game or maybe setup a realism unit with this as a main feature or Clan with this as the one of the core aspects of the clan. Infantry do not have to have wait for a full squad in infantry on a map to leave spawn so why single out tanks. Must be some way people can do this full tank or full squad of infantry without having all to use full tank, etc.


Up to you what you want to suggest or do, but full tank I think does not need to be forced on all.




Regards,


Sdkfz181
 

Ermac

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 19, 2007
591
106
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I trust that Tripwire will make better choices with tanks this time around.
 

LionbI4

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 26, 2006
273
12
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Wow so much flood.
I'm for delay for switching between tank roles. 3-5 seconds to switch from tank commander to driver, thats all.
 

Zetsumei

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
12,458
1,433
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33
Falmouth UK
I wouldnt mind if an automatic gear box would be there or whatever as an option. But in RO often when on a mountain or whatever i need more torque. Manual gear switching allows you regulate yourself how much torque to put through.
 
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Redit

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 7, 2010
261
83
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Airstrip 1
Sdkfz, a lot of the stuff you are saying is assumptions. Quite a bit of is irrelevant waffle and maybe I just don't see what you are trying to get across because of the bad grammar but why waste so much time writing a novel?

Your point is clear, you like tanking alone. That is sufficient.
 
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CopperHead

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 9, 2010
408
226
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oh yes, maps like orel were pathetic if you wanted to "climb" the hills


Yeah, no kidding.


Little tiny hill and the tiger is forced to go around rather than climb it.

Almost as absurd as the little wooden twig fence holding back the T34 flying into it.