Tank Crew bailing out!

[reconditioned]

Hello all and hi to the folks at TWI I would like to tell you I'm REALLY liking the game so far it really feels like a worthy sequel in my eyes. The increase in pace is just right and a good choice, because for me RO1 could at times also be a twitch shot run n gun meat grinder other times a slower paced snipe people from across the map with rifles all the time so I see no problem. It feels the same only with a lovely new lick off paint. I have put so many hours into it already and have enjoyed it a lot thank you TWI.

Now...

Please somehow enable a way for tank crew to enter/exit vehicles. I understand you are planning future updates with new tanks and infantry carriers so thank you and forgive me because I am sure you have heard this a million times and might be working on it already. I feel its the only thing that I miss from RO1 and I feel it is crucial to gameplay in combined arms maps. It just feels like a restriction that was not in RO1. I miss seeing the different skins of the tank crew and tank commanders.

I realise it would be difficult work and very time consuming to animate all the different positions for each crew man so I really think it wouldn't hurt so much if they did just teleport in and out of the tank. It is the only thing I feel is missing.

All the best

 

[Sgt.NightFire]

I really miss it as well, in Ro1 your tank would be almost completely shot to pieces, you jumped out and joined the infantry with capturing a objective, making jumping/entering a tank a game changer! :IS2:

 

[TheLusitanoTuga]

I dont whant the exit/enter tanks like we had on RO 1 unless they do the animation of that both exit and enter a tank,so no more teleport for those who jump out there tanks just sec before it get destroy besides you are a tank crew not a inf ,what we had on RO 1 was perhaps the most unrealist of the game,true that i do miss exit tank to scout ahead on foot but to see a emeny jump out just before you destroy his tank is in no way fun for you u fire and for the guy who jump.Darkest hour did a prety good job on tank warfare we could not kill the emeny but at least get point for destroy his tank and if he was still close we would see him burn how many time i saw my emeny try to do the coward way and jump out to get burn to death.
Now if they do all the needed animations in all for exit/enter tanks if not Hell NO i dont whant that all again.

 

[Skanvak]

Though I agree that sometime the crew is stuck in the tank able to be able to do nothing, the present system is basically good from a gameplay point of view. In RO1 a tank could get out with only one tanker and their was fight about who is what. People don't wait for the other tankers ...etc... present system seem better.

 

[jergul]

I find it entirely realistic that tank crews do not dismount and fight as infantry.

In my ideal world however, the scruttle command would spawn bots equal to number of surviving crew members with move order to closest friendly spawn point. Bots remain until next respawn point at which point they vanish in confusion of players magically appearing from thin air. The number of bots that vanish are added to re-enforcement pool.

Same principle on pure tank maps too, though abuse possibility must be considered (blowing up a tank in spawn gives more than 1 new tank).

Its important to remember that tanks are not really about tankers on combined maps. They are about how the rest of the players percieve tanks.

The chance to cut down a bailing tank crew - or for tanks destroyed watching burning crews well burn while rolling in the snow.

For reference Brits normandy. Per tank loss 50% wounded (about half return to duty wounded), 25% dead, 25% unharmed physically. In game terms 50% dead, 50% ok. But that assumes bail out is used in time.

More could be done to encourage bail out. Filling tanks with smoke is perhaps the best variant.

 

[Knochensack]

Bailing out and even fight out of the tank or carriers with firearms is absolutely necessary. There were several tanks with a "cork" in the turret, that only could be opened from the inside. It had the size of weaponry, that was carried inside the tank (MP 40, Pistols). My grandpa drove a Pz. III in Russia and while they were driving over and around trenches, a russian soldier threw at-grenades and mines. He then was shot by a tank commander that looked out of his hatch. He shot him with his pistol. Stuff like THIS would be immersive!

I really like the blowing up animations in RO2. Now imagine we would be able to bail out. Perhaps slowly, because of injuries. In DH you had to climb to a special position and open the hatch. This while the tank is burning would be really realistic.

People argue, they don't want tank crews to bail out, because of this and these reasons. But they would only carry pistols and the commander might have a MP 40. These people should complain first about the possibility to carry two primary weapons in RO2, which is absolutely nonsense. I want to see them running around with a K98 and a MG34. Most of the people here would be surprised, how hard it is to carry a K98 whole day while having to shoulder or to draw it quickly. No, I didn't experience it, but I own one and shoot it regularly. And if you thunder 50 rounds out of this beast, your shoulders and forearms know it.

Conclusion:
+ Bailing out, fighting OUT of vehicles
- Carrying two primary guns

 

[jergul]

I dont think bailing out would be hard to code.

1. Use tank as mobile deployment vehicle for its crew only.
2. Spawn on scuttle command
3. Retain abandoned tank ingame
4. Opportunity cost - new tank does not spawn until spawned player dead
5. Bail out graphics (crew spawn as open hatches)
6. Kills given for bailout - but with force to abandon tank image

Problem then would be that players would want to re-enter an abandoned tank - along with need for bot creation still.

But remember - on combined arms its more about what it looks like to the other 60 players than it is about the 4 players commonly using tanks.

 

[PvtProperty]

You guys are going to hate me, but i think the ability of bailing out would encourage the wrong sort of tank gameplay. Primarily because people wouldn't value the "life" of the tank as much, you could simply hop on the tank, drive straight into enemy lines, causing havoc and then when the tank gets damaged because of your suicidal tactics, simply hop out and do some more killing with your mp40. It may be unrealistic that you can't bail out, but i think it leads to realistic behaviour, after all, you cant model the fear of death in a game.

 

[Knochensack]

you could simply hop on the tank, drive straight into enemy lines, causing havoc and then when the tank gets damaged because of your suicidal tactics, simply hop out and do some more killing with your mp40.

In a tank battle? With large maps, many vehicles and perhaps fixed emplacements plus protected spawn ares? How many times you hopped out of your tank in combined maps in RO or DH and did some serious damage with your MP 40? It is very honorable if you do so by sneaking through bushes and enemy lines, shooting an enemy and perhaps obtain a PIAT, PTRS or AT grenade and then do some rampage.

 

[jergul]

You guys are going to hate me, but i think the ability of bailing out would encourage the wrong sort of tank gameplay. Primarily because people wouldn't value the "life" of the tank as much, you could simply hop on the tank, drive straight into enemy lines, causing havoc and then when the tank gets damaged because of your suicidal tactics, simply hop out and do some more killing with your mp40. It may be unrealistic that you can't bail out, but i think it leads to realistic behaviour, after all, you cant model the fear of death in a game.

Yah, agreed.

Its one of the reasons why you have to give kill credit to anyone forcing a tank to bail. Satisfaction denial is an important element to game. So if you want to be an idiot, then the game design could make sure the other team got double points for it.

I think it important that the bail option is available only to damaged tanks for similar reasons.

 

[PvtProperty]

In a tank battle? With large maps, many vehicles and perhaps fixed emplacements plus protected spawn ares? How many times you hopped out of your tank in combined maps in RO or DH and did some serious damage with your MP 40? It is very honorable if you do so by sneaking through bushes and enemy lines, shooting an enemy and perhaps obtain a PIAT, PTRS or AT grenade and then do some rampage.

In a large, open tank battle, i may agree, it would be cool. But in the maps as they are now and medium sized maps with plenty of closed areas an mp40 is pretty deadly, to the extent that tanks would probably be used as transports, BF style (just leaving the tank perfectly intact in the middle of nowhere). There is also another issue for me, it is the tank commander that has the sub machine gun right? A tank commander running around hiding with an smg is useless for his team, he is "wasting" a tank commander slot. You would think that most people would play sensibly but the internet can be a disappointing place

 

[Sufyan]

The number one reason this should never be implemented: You are allowing tankers to neglect their role in the team. If you hog one of the two tank commander slots on a combined arms map you should be providing armoured support every minute you are in the game. A minute not spent inside the tank is a minute you are not tearing the enemy infantry apart and protecting your own from enemy tanks.

Tripwire has also motivated the decision to not allow tank crews to exit the tank with how it was a dull anticlimax in RO1 where people would leave their tanks shortly before it explodes, cheating their victor of a legit kill and then run around with nothing to do. The way things work in RO2, losing a tank is rather costly, but there is a way to repair tanks and avoid losing reinforcements, although sometimes you are unable to drive due to combat damage and so scuttling becomes a viable option.

The only reason I would like to see tank crew being able to exit the tank is because sometimes it is easier to do reconnaissance on foot. On the current maps this isn't necessary since the fighting is so intense there is little wonder what is around the corner, but on some of the really large maps made for RO1 it was a good idea to park the tank and run up the hill to make sure you are not driving into the trained sights of a Tiger at 800m. Tank commanders did this in built up areas on all fronts of WWII as well.

While it would be epic to fight with your tank until it breaks down, bail out and join the infantry assault with a looted weapon and score a lot of kills while taking the objective, you are completely neglecting you battlefield role and not providing the support you pledged when you selected your class. If you are concerned with realism, consider not being able to exit the tank an abstraction. In the real world, when tank crews abandoned their tanks they immediately set out to leave the battlefield, their mission did not include joining other infantry units on foot for any reason. Kind of like going home when your work day is over.

 

[reconditioned]

I have not used the tanks a great deal in RO2 but I am afraid that the current mechanics actually encourage solo tanking as a better option to multi-person tanking. (who wants to be a driver of an immobilised tank?)

I think people would value the tanks more maybe if they were limited. Like the tank will spawn at certain times and once destroyed X number of times they will not return. It was the norm for many RO and DH maps I think and it worked pretty well. :IS2:

All the best.

 

[Field Marshal Rommel]

While it would be epic to fight with your tank until it breaks down, bail out and join the infantry assault with a looted weapon and score a lot of kills while taking the objective, you are completely neglecting you battlefield role.

Just give the tank crew pistols only restriction and no capping ability just like on certain maps in DH.

 

[dogbadger]

I really miss it as well, in Ro1 your tank would be almost completely shot to pieces, you jumped out and joined the infantry with capturing a objective, making jumping/entering a tank a game changer! :IS2:

you know this kind of thing might have contributed to the demise of tank exiting.

 

[hishnik]

I wouldn't care much if Scuttle would result in humans bailing the tank, after all, that's your personal decision, and you could get out of the tank, you dont need to die with it.
BUT!!! only with following conditions
a. you only have a pistol (regardless whether you're the loader or Squad Lead)
b. the action can be performed only by the person who is the acting tank commander, and results in everyone exiting the tank
c. you cannot jump back into the tank
d. tank is completely out of commission after that (doesn't matter if it's destroyed, or not, it's a useless metal scrap)

I dont see why you cant cap with a tank crew, they should be able to help, just perhaps at 1/3 of rate of other team members

 

[Larbo]

I like the idea of being able to bail out of the tank. But I second the notion of not making it possible to dismount and remount tanks at will and it should take at least the equivalent amount of time that it take to switch position between driver-gunner when crew members are dead.
In effect it would give the tanker the ability to abandon a tank that's critically damaged. For example having no functioning main gun and a disabled engine, effectively leaving you a sitting duck with a hull MG pointing into nothingness, leave you just waiting for the merciful kill shot. There's supposedly the option to Scuttle your tank, but whether or not you get to do it is decided by the game and not the commander which is frustrating.

Giving you the option to make the critical and extremely dangerous decision of bailing out would add some sense of self-preservation. As we already have weapon skill and suppression implemented in the game, it wouldn't be too hard to make tank crew more susceptible to suppression with less endurance and having poor aim.
I'm not trying to say that tank crews had poor health and abysmal firearms training. But you've already had the air knocked out of you a few times before you make the decision to bail.

The purpose of bailing out would then be to either make you're way back to you're lines to a point where you can somehow get a new tank (respawn or any other method) without counting as a full loss/kill). Perhaps giving you limited time to get back or count as full kill (reserves point loss) to encourage crews to get back instead of attempting to act as infantry. But also giving the option for that last ditch zone capture assistance.

I don't see it unbalancing the game as it'll be quite easy to kill a retreating tanker. The effect is removing irritation of having to wait (sometimes a rather long time) for the mercy of the finishing shot and adds an air of realism.