Tank battles in RO are Garbage.

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Hans_klempner

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 8, 2006
272
66
0
Hi!

I've held this rant off for a while now, saying that-naw its not gonna be a major problem with RO.

But today I experienced things that made my nerves crack, and get me extremely angry.

First things that pisses the living soul out of me was those little BA b******s and killing tanks with Charges.
I had a panther tank, took up a battle with 4 T34's.
Took out 3 when a little rat threw a charge on me, out from nowhere.

Than I saw one come again, but I managed to traverse my turret (tiger I) and get a shot off (100 meter). To my amazment the 88 millimeter shell simply bounce off the BA's rear-right armor plate. To my knowledge that shell travels at around 900 Meter per second.
HOW COME IT CANT PENETRATE A F******ng BA?


The other battle involved my Tiger I and IJ 2.
We had a LOOOONG battle. I fired at least 9 88 AP rounds at the Ij2.
ALl bounced off, and I gotta note this was at between 300-400 meters.
The IJ2 is too well armoured in the game.
THe IJ2 was hvly armoured indeed, but the quality of steel was not as great.

Wherever I fired, tracks, under the front hull plate using the ground to let the shell bounce up to the belly of the vehicle, between the turret and the superstructure, side armour. Trust me I tried everything and that bloody thing
refused to take damage.

These thins made me mad, and quit the game.
Maybe I just worked too much today and my temper is short, but a game won't piss me off, ill just stop playing.


End of rant, facts rather.

Please try and get some problems solved, so we can really enjoy this game at its fullest, because besides this Armoured warfare screw up the rest of the game is Great.

Thank You!
Hans
 

XXX

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 2, 2006
48
0
0
I just blew a BA to Workers' Paradise with a Pz III AT 200 meters. First shot set him to smoking, second was complete demolition (very convincing, I should add). :)
 

Munkie

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 17, 2006
643
7
0
35
usa
The BA should've blown up.
It was probably lag. Even if you saw the shell hit the BA, it might not have registered server-side.
 

Byte Me

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 9, 2006
909
0
0
Virginia, USA
Munk Polkadot
The BA should've blown up.
It was probably lag. Even if you saw the shell hit the BA, it might not have registered server-side.
Impossible, all bullets/shells are actual physical objects and are done server side, if you see hit its a hit (unless of course it was a glitch caused by the graphics card, highly doubt it because I've seen and heard of shots richocheting off of BA-64's). Though the OP shouldn't worry to much, some much needed bug fixes (albeit many a tank one) will probably be fixed in the next big patch (which I hear is very soon). Just stay away from maps with tanks if you can't stand some of the BS that happens all to often.
 

Drude

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 1, 2006
569
3
0
Finland, Helsinki
www.kt-va.org
Hans_klempner said:
Hi!

I've held this rant off for a while now, saying that-naw its not gonna be a major problem with RO.

But today I experienced things that made my nerves crack, and get me extremely angry.

First things that pisses the living soul out of me was those little BA b******s and killing tanks with Charges.
I had a panther tank, took up a battle with 4 T34's.
Took out 3 when a little rat threw a charge on me, out from nowhere.

Than I saw one come again, but I managed to traverse my turret (tiger I) and get a shot off (100 meter). To my amazment the 88 millimeter shell simply bounce off the BA's rear-right armor plate. To my knowledge that shell travels at around 900 Meter per second.
HOW COME IT CANT PENETRATE A F******ng BA?


The other battle involved my Tiger I and IJ 2.
We had a LOOOONG battle. I fired at least 9 88 AP rounds at the Ij2.
ALl bounced off, and I gotta note this was at between 300-400 meters.
The IJ2 is too well armoured in the game.
THe IJ2 was hvly armoured indeed, but the quality of steel was not as great.

Wherever I fired, tracks, under the front hull plate using the ground to let the shell bounce up to the belly of the vehicle, between the turret and the superstructure, side armour. Trust me I tried everything and that bloody thing
refused to take damage.

These thins made me mad, and quit the game.
Maybe I just worked too much today and my temper is short, but a game won't piss me off, ill just stop playing.


End of rant, facts rather.

Please try and get some problems solved, so we can really enjoy this game at its fullest, because besides this Armoured warfare screw up the rest of the game is Great.

Thank You!
Hans

You have a single "bad day" and "all tank battles are garbage" and then you tell how things should be (your way).
 

[-project.rattus-]

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
3,036
371
0
38
Austria
www.youtube.com
Allthough I disagree with the point that tank battles are "garbage", as I have not seen better tank battles in any combined arms game, I have to somewhat agree that right now the ricochets, penetration and damage are not perfect.
Things I think that miss to make the tank really impressive:

-Real critical hits that take out a tank with one shot (In RO, the only weapon I managed to get one hit kills with are the PTRD and the Panzerfaust).
-Tweaked penetration and ricochet for all tank and anti-tank weapons.
-Penetrating shots taking out crew.
-No ricocheting off the tracks without damaging them.
-Engine damage that catually stops the tank.
-More "special" hitzones, like being able to destroy the turret traverse, the optics, and any of the three crew positions.
-time delay (or better: animations) when changing positions
-time delay (or better: animations) when exiting and entering a tank
-Chosing which position to man by "aiming" at it from outside. This would make it possible to disable position change for the KV1, so the tanker would have to get out and get back in into the other position.

But as I said, I still have yet to see better tanks ;)
 

[TW]Wilsonam

VP, Tripwire Int.
Oct 17, 2005
4,061
2,618
0
62
Roswell, GA
www.tripwireinteractive.com
Hope the venting helped ;)

Actually, one of the pieces we are doing at the moment is to gather "anecdotal" evidence for a full look through the armour penetration model and see (now that we have volume play going on daily) what needs tweaking/improving...
 

spraduke

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
1,522
4
0
35
wiltshire
www.spraduke.co.uk
I hit a ba 64 twice in the rear half with a tiger both times with richoets!! At times the tank battles can be excellent but when shots disappear through tanks at close range and dodgey ricochets it can become frustrating. I love the is2 an awful lot but i have to agree its overpowered atm (or over represented) It should be limited to one a map or much lower numbers than now. Simply because the tiger isnt up to the job (the panther is 10 times better!)
 

Drude

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 1, 2006
569
3
0
Finland, Helsinki
www.kt-va.org
This is kinda offtopic but week ago I was playing SPWAW and I shot BA-64 from 400 meters with Jagdtiger's 128mm KwK, dunno if it was AP or HE round but all I got was a ricochet. (I wonder why crew deserted the vehicle, lol)
 

Oleg

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 16, 2006
450
0
0
I am not great fan of tank maps anyway, but for those that do love them, this is what should be done to make tank battles better/more realistic:

- Realistic transition times (like 10 seconds to switch from driver to gunner) that would discourage solo tanking
- PTRD has to go, on every map except Bondarevo, perhaps to be replaced with Lend Leased Bazookas to give Sov infantry some chance of taking German armor late in war
- Remove sappers on tank maps
- Limit the number of BA armored Toyotas, gamey vehicles on most tank maps, to one
- And to make things REAL interesting, make AT guns, that are now scattered over tank maps as decoration, operable

I don't think IS-2 is overpowered, it is, IMO, if anything underpowered (too easy to destroy). Most of my suggestions above are "pro German" and if implemented would make IS-2, and Russians in general, feel less powerfull on tank maps overall.

Having said this, I must also add that IMO tank battles in RO already work better than in any other game I can remember, except perhaps Panzer Elite (rather old, largely ignored gem).

Oleg
 

Johnny555

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 25, 2006
95
0
0
Lancaster UK
Well I've always destroyed the BA64 with one shot. Whether it was a PzIII or Tiger that I was using. So I can't say I have had that annoying experience.

Infantry sneeking up and planting a satchel charge or using a panzerfaust is all part of the game. It keeps a bit of doubt in the tankers mind to watch out for infantry as well as tanks.

The penetration system does need to be looked at. There does seem to be too many instances of shells not doing the damage they should given the circumstances of range and penetration. The T60 being a fine example. Too powerful IMO.

I'm still unsure about penalising solo tankers any more. Quite often I find myself on a map with three or four other players and we need to man a tank solo, just to give the game some volume.
I say make bots easier to command in tanks. When I tell them to stop, make them stay stopped until I tell them otherwise. That's not too much to ask.
 

Theodrake

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 21, 2006
404
0
0
I've just started reading Otto Carius' memoirs. His comment about how important the batteries where to the operation of the Tiger was interesting. The point being minor damage to the batteries/engine could make it more difficult to aim or fire. I'm sure other tanks all had similiar problems.

You should also read his comments on the T-34 and T-43 (I don't know to which tank he was refering, maybe the T-34/85). He said when they first inencountered this tank the only way they could stop it with their Pak 37 was to get a lucky shot between the turret and the hull which might jam the turret.
 

Johnny555

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 25, 2006
95
0
0
Lancaster UK
Theodrake said:
I've just started reading Otto Carius' memoirs. His comment about how important the batteries where to the operation of the Tiger was interesting. The point being minor damage to the batteries/engine could make it more difficult to aim or fire. I'm sure other tanks all had similiar problems.

You should also read his comments on the T-34 and T-43 (I don't know to which tank he was refering, maybe the T-34/85). He said when they first inencountered this tank the only way they could stop it with their Pak 37 was to get a lucky shot between the turret and the hull which might jam the turret.

The Pak 37 would have trouble opening a tin of beans from 30 yards :D
 

[TW]Ramm-Jaeger

Tripwire Interactive President
Oct 11, 2005
1,884
3,097
0
www.redorchestragame.com
No tank shell should ever richochet off of a BA, there isn't even deflection code for the BA, as its armor is too weak to deflect tank shells. With that said, we've recently discovered some bugs with the tank shell/AT Rifle/Panzerfaust projectile penetration system. Essentially it seems that the internal component damage part of the system isn't working properly due to a bug. We'll definitely have this fixed in the next patch.
 

Theodrake

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 21, 2006
404
0
0
[RO]Ramm-Jaeger said:
No tank shell should ever richochet off of a BA, there isn't even deflection code for the BA, as its armor is too weak to deflect tank shells. With that said, we've recently discovered some bugs with the tank shell/AT Rifle/Panzerfaust projectile penetration system. Essentially it seems that the internal component damage part of the system isn't working properly due to a bug. We'll definitely have this fixed in the next patch.

Please squash that damn bug ASAP :D

Will this fix the uber T-60???
 

Byte Me

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 9, 2006
909
0
0
Virginia, USA
[RO]Ramm-Jaeger
We'll definitely have this fixed in the next patch.
Glad to hear, I just love it when devs are all over a annoying bug :). Of course what I hope for is for damage when getting out of a fast moving vehicle, I think its a bug because wasn't it in the mod?
 

Witzig

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 16, 2006
2,189
52
0
Germany
Theodrake said:
Please squash that damn bug ASAP :D

Will this fix the uber T-60???


[RO]Ramm-Jaeger said:
.ssnip...
With that said, we've recently discovered some bugs with the tank shell/AT Rifle/Panzerfaust projectile penetration system. Essentially it seems that the internal component damage part of the system isn't working properly due to a bug.
snap...

Well i guess the 20mm falls in the Realm of tank Shells, though it seems the Engine Damage Box is working sometimes, though i have only been immobilized once due to an Engine Hit (yes it did happen).