tank armor system

[Kashash]

I would like to see not only more realistc tanks penetration data and armor values but it would be nice if armor was not only 1 value, but armor with angle included too, Cause some guns were better on vertical armors but less effective on very sloped armors like 60deg. So this would affect smaller calibers like PzIII long 50mm which was better in penetrating vertical armor than PzIV short 75mm, but less effective on sloped armors and longer distances. So there would be different counting of penetration when hit on armor sloped on 0deg or 60 deg

Also it would be nice if weather was affecting the accuracy of tank guns beacuse of the wind, with the stronger wind on the map, the more missed shots would be occuring. And with this feature also would be nice if the front of turret which in soviet tanks were very often round shape was finally modelled as it looks like cause in RO1 is just modelled as a vertical armor. So this would affect especially engagements T34/76 vs PzIII long 50mm cause 50mm couldn't penetrate T34 hull but yes it could the front turret but if the wind would be strong on the map wouldn't be so easy to hit the middle of turret as you could hit the edge of the turret which is on angle.
Also anything what was previously suggested about tanking.

Post your ideas!

 

[LogisticEarth]

Er, RO1 DID take armor angle into account, sometimes too much so, to the point where every tank angled itself at 11 or 1 o'clock or so to the enemy. I'm sure it will be in RO2.

Now what I'd REALLY like to see is better calculations on armor penetration, seperate armor ratings for the turret, and lots more potential damage. Ie. jammed turret rings, damage optics, main gun damage, etc.

 

[Tank!]

What really bothered me in RO 1 is that the Panzer IV equipped with the long 75 mm cannon has trouble penetrating a T-34 frontally unless the T-34 is exactly frontally perpendicular to the incoming round (in other words a slightly angled T-34 in RO 1 would unrealistically deflect long 75 mm rounds [even occasional 88 mm rounds] at rediculously short ranges). Combat accounts claim the exact opposite stating that the Panzer IV equipped with the 75 mm KwK 40 L/43 (Panzer IV F2) could penetrate the T-34 tank at ranges of up to 1,200 metres at any angle (slightly farther for the KwK 40 L/48 [Panzer IV G, H, J]).

Now what I'd REALLY like to see is better calculations on armor penetration, seperate armor ratings for the turret, and lots more potential damage. Ie. jammed turret rings, damage optics, main gun damage, etc

I would go farther and say that they should have a seperate turret and hull armor modeled as well as roof or top armor and floor armor modeled in order to facilitate the implementation of anti tank weapons that are thrown on top or under a tank.

One more thing what is up with the rediculous T 60 in RO 1? Hopefully its weapon penetrative performance will be toned down in RO 2?

 

[Kashash]

Er, RO1 DID take armor angle into account, sometimes too much so, to the point where every tank angled itself at 11 or 1 o'clock or so to the enemy. I'm sure it will be in RO2.

No, I'm not talking about oblique angle that enemy tank stands to you, I agree this has to be changed too but I'm talking about angle of armor plate. If front of T34 is 45mm sloped on 60 deg in RO is counted as a 1 value - for example 100mm of armor thickness. So if you got APCR ammo which had much better penetrating ability than standart AP, but poor on very sloped armors (60deg) you cannot then make it more effective on vertical armor and less on very sloped ones beacuse in RO1 you can set only 1 value of a tank gun penetration. So what I'm meant is to have 2-3 different counting values when shell is hit on 0deg, 30deg or 60deg
For example:
PzIV long 75mm
110mm on 500m, 0 deg
58mm on 500m, 60 deg

PzIII long 50mm APCR ammo
140mm on 500m, 0 deg
40mm, on 500m, 60 deg

So despite better penetrating results of APCR against 0deg plate, is less effective on 60deg plate, so it wouldn't be able to penetrate front hull of T34

 

[LemoN]

just copy and paste Combat Missions Penetration caltulations to Ro2 and turn it into a Wego system strategy game

id like to see at last half of the stuff that is calculated in the Combat Mission games (that would be my dream for RO2 if it has armor ^^)

and please no abstract armor anymore, just hard facts in mm(ie also in the code)

anyone who played CM will probably agree with me that this is a game that shows how to do armor penetration calculations right

 

[Apos]

I very like Theatre of War armor penetration system and damage system. It will be amazing if tripwire implement something like that or similar to Armor Beast mod. BUT it is still a FPS game and for me balance and gameplay is more important than 100% historical accuracy.

 

[Kashash]

Shouldn't be a problem with a balance if tanks will be coded 100% correctly. Back in the days of playing combat mission BB in the league 4-5 years ago everyone was playing only 1942 and 1944 cause only these were balanced, you had certain amount of points of which by you could choose your forces and most of the players were selecting a stug with front armor 80mm, umpenetratable for t34/76 but it was still pretty even as those stugs were incredible easy to get outflanked cause they slow in rotating. That's the another thing in RO I think tank should be rotating much slower, how many times I failed killing a Tiger with and T34/76 beacuse he managed to rotate his tank quick enough and shoot me. But germans didn't have much of the stugs with front armor 80mm and mostly had pziv and stugs with thinner 50mm so actualy russians should be superior for their KV1 and T34 although there are some sloped parts in stug front which is on 45degrees, so if the armor was modeled exactly as it looks like (not just as a vertical plate), sometimes the t34 shell might surprisingly bounce off.

 

[LemoN]

I very like Theatre of War armor penetration system and damage system. It will be amazing if tripwire implement something like that or similar to Armor Beast mod. BUT it is still a FPS game and for me balance and gameplay is more important than 100% historical accuracy.

ToW has a incredibly bad penetration system
it starts out good, but then leaves half of the calculation on the side of the road

such as at what angle the armor is sloped

you really should play Combat Mission BB or AK

@ Cashash some punctuation and fullstops might help...

 

[Apos]

ToW has a incredibly bad penetration system
it starts out good, but then leaves half of the calculation on the side of the road

such as at what angle the armor is sloped

Are you sure you are talking about ToW after uberpatch? Retail version wasn't so good and patch has done good changes in gameplay.

you really should play Combat Mission BB or AK

I will

Anyway, imho Tripwire should go for AB or DH (is it the same armor system?, isn't it?) and imprement it to RO2. It will be better than bouncing-everything angled tanks.

 

[Xendance]

Are you sure you are talking about ToW after uberpatch? Retail version wasn't so good and patch has done good changes in gameplay.




I will

Anyway, imho Tripwire should go for AB or DH (is it the same armor system?, isn't it?) and imprement it to RO2. It will be better than bouncing-everything angled tanks.

I think that TWI can do a better job with their new engine than the DH team (I just mean that you, or DH team, know what is possible with the new engine)

 

[Kashash]

Also it would be great if would be implemented that if you'll be shooting at front T34 from the hill, the front plate of T34 won't be angled on 60degrees for PzIII standing on the hill like on picture below so it'll be much easier to penetrate it perhaps even possible for short 75mm, after all the T34 armor it's only 45mm thick, only that slopeness gives it such a good protection.

Also I wish there was fixed something with tank movement, if you'll get on a obstacle it should ride over it but even if some obstacle is too heavy like another tank, what it happens in RO, affter collision with another tank it keeps moving with the same speed, it drives like an sport car you don't feel that weight of the tank, and any terrain slopes should slow the tank down, also if tank will drive on a vehicle like BA64 it should drive over it and wreck it.

By the way if we are talking about balance, it should be never done by tweaking the tank gun penetration data and armor values, cause you can easily balance it with plenty of other ways like increasing the time of respawn of other team, moving initial spawn farther so it takes longer to get to the capzone or give more tanks to the other team which is the best I think and I hope that in RO2 there will be option of team ratio limits like for example 6:10 so when in a team is 6 players you cannot join it cause it's full and by this you could make numerical advantage on the certain map so there would be no shouting on the server no more like "HEEY GUYS EVEN THE TEAMS!!!!!!!!". This would be especially on the maps that one team is defending so beacuse they have easier cause they can do ambushes and stuff so there should be less players than in attacking team.