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Tactics Tactical Organizations In RO:Ost

Ike

Grizzled Veteran
Feb 17, 2006
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U.S.A.
I'm not sure that this is the right Forum, but if it's the wrong place, move it please to wherever it goes.

I understand from reading the post - haven't played the RO Mod or any other UT games - that the way the games are played is that someone makes up a "map", which includes both a map and the battle specifications. That is, whether the battle is pure infantry, pure tank, or combined arms; what the objectives are, what the number of players assigned to each side are, any limitations of weapons choices (no King Tigers in a pure infantry map), and others of which I am not aware. Also there are "clans" - more or less permanent player organizations - in TO:O and in the various mods. Also, that each side is limited to a maximum of 16 players per battle and it is possible to have some spawning limitations in the battle depending on what the mapper wanted the battle to be.

So, has any thought been given to what organization would work best, given the basic limitations? There can't be more than 16 soldiers in the battle on our side at once. There are limitations, generally, of pure infantry (I take it that means no AFVs, but are halftracks or assault guns permitted?), pure armor (no infantry; right?), and combined arms (in whatever combination or mix the mapper wants to be played; right?). Are there any other limitations that aren't options chosen by the map maker? Or, ones that would affect organizational choices? I'm a complete noobie to this stuff in TO:O.

Should we use historical rifle squad organizations? Should we make up our own? Should we organize as an infantry platoon limited to a total of 16? A single squad with supporting weapons? I'm going to look up the Soviet and German squad compositions and post something that resembles those organizations through most of the war in the East Front. While I'm looking that up, what has worked best in the RO Mod? I understand that's been in play for some time now.
 
Well if you want to know what Basic Setup to use for Clanwars, i can tell you that you need a different Setup for every Map, since most Maps have different Limitations on the avaible Classes.

Fire-Teams (either modern or WWII Composition) are the best way to start as Wilsonam said. Those assigned to take a building should choose Classes with automatic Weapons. In most Maps its wise to assign a Rifleman to an MG Gunner for backup, and protecting the Flanks.
Working in Pairs also allows leapfrogging to Targets/Objectives.
 
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Okay. Thanks for the input! So, fire teams, co-operating under the guidance and/or control of the Commander. Smallest fire-team that is useful (IRL) is 3 folks. If only 2, when one is killed, no team left; if 3, one killed and you still have a team; if 4, you have two teams of 2 each - back to first problem.

So, 3-man fire teams. Needs base of fire team or teams. Two rifles teamed with one LMG should work there. Assault fire team or teams, three SMG. Support Teams and Headquarters Team, the one with the Commander in it. Well, what's left to choose from? Sniper, ATR, a semiauto rifle if no sniper ... I think that is the list. Let me check.
[edit] I left off Engineer/Sapper and the ATR is actually an AT infantryman and .. oh pooh. I have to go back. Okay. Tank Crew and Tank Commander.

HQ Teams can be Commander plus three others maybe SMG, maybe rifles, maybe another LMG; depends on the map. Support Teams can be: Tank Hunter Team 1 Engineer, 2 AT Infantrymen; Sniper Team 1 Sniper 2 Rifles; Demolition Team 1-2 Engineer, 2-1 SMG. Those are for infantry organizations, of course, and maybe for infantry in a combined arms battle. So you could have four 3-man teams plus the 4-man HQ team for a total of 16. At least one team should be a Base of Fire team, one an assault team; other two would depend on the mission same as the Hq Team.

For pure armor, Soviet side, you can have two-man crew per tank and function so that gives 8 tanks for a full map. IRL, tank company was three platoons of 3 tanks with 2 tank HQ. Four platoons of two tanks each or three platoons one with two tanks two with three tanks. German organization was different IRL, with 5 tanks each in four platoons for a company with 2 tank Company HQ. So maybe 2 tanks each in four platoons.

For combined arms, some mix of tanks and infantry. Say, three tanks and ten infantry. With 2-man tank crews, using this fireteam structure, that gives two 3-man teams and one 4-man Hq Team. One fire, one assault, and the 3 men in Hq team are a Tank Killer team.

What do you think, generally?
 
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Every Map has different Limitations, on a normal Early War Infantry-Only Map, you usually got 1/2 MGs, 3 SMGs, 1 Commander and unlimited Rifles.

Clan matches are usually played with 8+ (up to 12, but this is usually up to the League/Clans).

So i'd say we have to wait what Class restrictions are on which Map, to really think about it. You'll need different Team Setups for different Maps, i guess the toughest will be the choices Made on a Combined Arms Maps, where you loose 2 Player for a Tank (or 3).

Also keep in mind that some Infantry only Maps might feature Troop Transports, which usually come with an LMG. so this is another Tool to be used against the Enemy.
 
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Witzig: Thanks for the additional details. Not on-topic, but are clan matches the most common way the game is played?

I agree, based on the information you all have posted, that it looks like detailed organizational planning has to wait for the game to come out and we see what's what. However :) - we can have some basic organizational ideas; yes?

We want to get players working together in-game on a regular basis, in the same teams as often as possible, because it makes for better play by the teams as they get used to each other's ways. Makes the Commander's job easier, because the teams steady down to some persistent level of competence; not necessarily Imperial Guard level, but something consistent that a Commander can depend upon. For those reasons, a clan should have a more or less permanent internal organization, very basic, that gets the same folks playing on the same teams each time. I know that is a goal, not the reality in game play, but if we try for that goal, the clan wins more battles.

First, the 3-man fireteam is the basis of the infantry organization. The 2-man tank crew is the basis of the tank organization. So, three tanks in a combined arms game uses up 6 folks or two fireteams. That's a minimum for combined arms maps, because 2 tanks is a fragile team; see my post on infantry teams. So we already know we want the clan organized into teams of 3 players each, with two of those teams designated as the "tank teams" for combined arms maps.

What else? Let's see .... what are we going to have on every map? For Tank Maps, easy: everyone's a tanker and we have eight of them or less depending on the League or Clan rules. For combined arms, we'll have 3 tanks and the rest infantry. The details of CA maps would depend on the map limitations, but we know generally what we're going to deal with and so would want as many AT infantry as we are allowed in the map, etc. Any Map with infantry will allow at least one LMG (maybe two) and 3 SMGs, so we can establish an Assault Team of 3 SMGs and a Fire Support Team of two rifles and one LMG (or one rifle and 2 LMGs if the Map allows 2). A Scout Team is always a good idea, so 3 rifles into a Scout Team. Scout Team's job is .. well, scouting.:p Find the enemy and tell the Commander, don't let him find us, and watch our flanks or rear once the fighting starts. Also they are the infantry unit's reserve.

Let's look at what we can usefully plan for, then. Tanks only? Easy-peasy. Everyone's a tanker: nothing more to say. Infantry Maps? Fire Team of at least 1 LMG and 2 rifles; Assault Team of 3 SMGs; Scout Team of 3 rifles; 1 Commander. That's ten folks right there who have a more or less permanent assignment, both in terms of weapons and who they team with. That completes the roster for a combined arms map: 10 infantry organized like that with 3 tanks; that's maximum. Adjust downward for your League's rules. That's also a basis for future planning about infantry only maps.

Maybe these ideas on team composition don't work in RO:Ost. Consider the functions that we need on the battlefield: base of fire, assault, scouting, anti-tank; plus any mission-specific functions like demolitions. Using those, I bet a clan could work up some basic organization that would improve their won/loss record by increasing battlefield effectiveness.

:)
 
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I didn't mean to discourage you from Planning ahead :) Its actually a bright thing to do.

If you play mostly in Clan Matches or mostly on Public Servers is up to each individual Clan/Player. I guess most people spend the majority of their online Hours on public Servers, though i might be wrong :), but this seems logical.

About Combined Arms Maps, i don't know how the Maps will look like, but the Majority of Combined Arms Maps in the Mod (this may be different with the Retail Game), had mostly 1 Tank and 1 or 2 IFVs, and with Players who are used to play together i recommend crewing a Tank with 3 Players on a Combined Arms Map, since you usually will need the MG manned on these Maps, even with Infantry Support.

Well the "pure" Tank Maps in RO, still allow for Infantry to take part in the Battle, but they should focus to support the Tanks, or support them with spotting enemy Tanks capping Objectives etc. Though one surely can also work with a pure Tanker Team, though this could provide dangerous if the Enemy has a lot of Anti-Tank Troops (if avaible on the Map), then it would be smart to have at least 1 or 2 Infanterists per 2 Tanks.
 
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I'd just like to mention an alternative to Clan matches and straight pub play would be a tournament like "Battle for Europe" ( http://www.bfero.com )

We typically play 16v16 games. There are only two teams in BFE, one Allied and one Axis. Much like the Harlem Globe Trotters and Washington Generals, we only play each other.

We often split up into several smaller groups, even going into separate voice channels when the need arises.

I can't directly compare it to clan play, since I suck too much to be in a clan, but we have plenty of clan players (yes you can do both).

As more players join upon ROOSTs release, we're expecting to run several simultaenous matches at a time.


I've come to understand that teamwork is a lot stronger in ROOST as far as Pub Playing goes. So you may not have to go to a Clan or BFE to get teamwork, but I'm sure the comraderie will be better.
 
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I see. Well, I wan't trying to write a "Ten Commandments of RO:Ost" - heh :rolleyes: - just some ideas for players or clans or Leagues to use. I've found out in different OL multiplayer games I've been in that the clans which are better organized win more often than those which are not as well organized. Some of it, of course, takes players playing together in the game, but some comes from actual organization and doctrine, and that's what I'm working on here.

So, "pure" Tank Maps aren't and Combined Arms are. Are there tanks or other armored vehicles in the "pure" Infantry Maps? ;)

That's all good to know. As more details are learned about the game and of course once it's out and we're playing it, we can do more brainstorming about clan organization. Thanks for your help and information!
 
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Well since i am neither a DEV nor a Tester, i can just tell from my Experience in the Mod :)

Sometimes (as in Hedgehog) there are Infantry Maps with Transports, this would the SdKfz. 251 for the Germans (Halftrack) and the BA-64 (or something other) for the Russians.

Well the "pure" Tank Maps get only called pure Tank Maps, cause they are VERY Vehicle centric, with Maps being the size of several square Kilometers, thus if your Infantry Transport Vehicle gets blown up...

Though it will be pretty easy to change suchs things in the official Maps, since they are not locked, as said on the After Hourz boards every Map that comes from the Game, can be looked on, modified and parts taken out of them for use in other Maps.

And in RO OST teamplay pays off, and if people know what to do, without needing to talk about that in the middle of the fight (thats what your planning to achieve?) will certainly have advantages.

May i ask which clan you do belong to ?
 
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Mormegil: I think they have that in the RO mods, and they call it League play or something like that. I haven't played this game yet even in mods. That sounds like fun.

Witzig: That's exactly what I'm trying to achieve! *hands Witzig a cigar* The more we work out before the battles, the better we do in the battles, I think. I don't belong to any clan. I just "got into town", so to speak, about this past Thursday or Wednesday.

I am really looking forward to playing RO:Ost, however the games get organized.
 
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It all sounds good, although I have never played the mod.... but anxiously awaiting the game :D....

Ike::rolleyes: If you want to start a clan with me- I'd be honored, lol, and any other of you guys too, it would be awesome.... Some of my friends might buy the game then, well, we'd have a "happening clan" :cool:

Witzing, etc.: same as above, we could all start a clan if you guys want to.

This may be off-topic, but what class will you guys most likely be playing? I'm keeping my eyes on SMG and Rifleman (because I love the Assualt class in DoDS, and because pretty much you can always be rifleman)

Cool.... thanks Wilsoman
 
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CptRio: In some circles, that Soviet tactic is called the "poker player's tactic": when you believe you have the best hand, just go all in and let them call you.

I think that being in a clan or squad would be fun; I was in several in WW2 Online and it was all good. But, I want to see how the play on the public servers works out first and how the game play actually turns out to be. Oh, I think I'd like to be either a rifleman or an ATR gunner on the Soviet side. Probably rifle or AT infantryman on German side, as well.

:D
 
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I can't possibly wait until the "poker player's tactic" becomes popular.... easy kills for the german hiding behind the sandbag with a MG42.... AWESOME.... but I'll be playing a lot of rifleman, due to the fact that they're the "average" soldier. SMG will be appealing as well, the PPSh especially.

@Ike, Witzig: Clan seems kewl, what about a name? How about the "Evil Smiley Swastikas"? lol, just kidding, but whatever. Or the "Mac Hating Albino Penguins"? Or the "Flaming Active Recon Troopers (FART)"?

Just kidding, but whatever....
 
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I think that a clan whose first members include me and Witzig (among others who post here :p ) ought to be named, "The Wheezin' Geezers". ;)

Just a thought, ya know, since we'd be planning on playing in Leagues where we'd have to play both German and Russian teams and like that. Somehow, a clan name like "1st Brandenburg Guards Panzergrenadiers Orel Brigade" just doesn't sound quite right; does it? :D
 
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Sounds Good, I don't really like the clans that are so tough and call themselves actual divisions-- WAY too complicated and hard-ass for me.

Sounds Good "The Wheezin' Geezers", I don't have much free time-- but on the weekends I can scrim... If we want to ;););) Personnaly, I'm just gonna tes RO:O out for probable a few weeks... but I'd gladly make a clan with you and Witzig (or You and Ike, If Witzig is reading this).

Kewl, bye
 
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My only problem is time, like everyone else, I guess! In particular, I'm going to be out of touch from next Saturday until the following Thursday. I'd tell ya where I'm going and what I'm gonna do, but it's Top Secret! That means, I have to kill ya then I can tell ya!:D

So, if RO:Ost comes out that first week in March, I'm out of the picture. But I'll run twice as fast as I can to catch up when I get back home.
 
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