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T60 is getting on my nerves

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#21
I blow up the T-60 with panzerfausts all the time. It only takes one hit from a faust, even from the dead front when you're less than 30 meters or so.

I can't say I've had much experience with them in tank-to-tank battles. Every now and then I'll come across one on Ogledow, but they don't really stand out to me as a big threat. I can remember a time or two that they destroyed a tank I was in from about head on or angled, but I'm not an expert on tank balistics so I won't comment about this...
 
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#22
I just wonder how many of these encounters genuinely are taking place at decent range... because the maps where I've seen the T-60 (Hedgehog and the one with the farm and the village) generally tend to end up in very close range fights. Keep the T60 at a good distance and the Panzers eat them for breakfast.

People need to learn range estimation.
 
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#24
The End said:
I just wonder how many of these encounters genuinely are taking place at decent range... because the maps where I've seen the T-60 (Hedgehog and the one with the farm and the village) generally tend to end up in very close range fights. Keep the T60 at a good distance and the Panzers eat them for breakfast.

People need to learn range estimation.
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...and others need to learn to recognize the cause of a problem instead of coming up with BS pseudo-solutions for the obvious symptoms while declaring everyone else recognizing the cause in the first place basically a moron.

When the T60 is right up ones butt (such as on Bondarevo, you know, farm and village), there is no need for range estimation on a grand scale once you have reached West Farm what with being kinda close to the russian spawns in general as well as overmatching of german AP rounds of T60's armor in particular.
 
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#25
Either you are unbelievably unlucky, or then you just haven't been in right angles, or the T-60 has hit your bottom plate (there's a small bit of it visible when the Pz-III is on flat / nose up).

I have several times destroyed one in Hedgehog with a single shot to the root of the turret, or the bottom plate / the exhaust vents behind the tower with the Pz-III, and very rarely one has destroyed me. It's all about having the perfect angle or hiding your hull ;)

Well, it might also be that I'm a lucky bastard.. :p
 
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#26
On Hedgehog I can kill the 60 with the III but almost always takes two shots, very seldom get him with a single shot.
The key IMO is to standoff a ways so after you hit the little bastard the first time you can track him in the sights while reloading (which is pretty fast in the III) and then put another one in him to kill the little prick.
Try setting up out a little ways from the West or East farm to mow down the grunts and when you see the 60 coming, get that first shot in him quick.
I know this is more on the tactics and I agree the 60 can take and dish out way too much punishment, but untill the devs.............
 
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#27
Yeah I love taking the t-60 against the Pz-III. It must be at least 5:1 in my favor. When the Axis players finally get smart and start grenading me then the Pz-III can usually take me in 1 shot.

Of course what I hate is the idiot using the 20mm instead of the MG on infantry. I always take the MG first and if they stop then mix it up between the two. It really is a great anti-infantry vehicle.

The allies just need to get a smart PF guy to hunt the T-60.
 
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#29
It seems not only the armor-calculations are not correct (25mm Steel Plate should not stop a 50mm shot at that angle) but if you read the details about the gun, it shouldn't even be able to crack a PzIIIL from the front. I do think this is the same problem as many grenades taking out a T-34 or IS-2...damage is accumulated like "hit points" and when you run out of hit points your tank dies.
 
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#30
I am just irritated that Ramm is calling all this a "few, rare" cases. That is ridiculous, this is anything but rare: it is the norm.


If anyone wants to see how it should really be, load up CMBB and do a Quick Mission with T-60s against Panzer IIIs, IVs, or pretty much anything, and see how well you do: you will be slaughtered.

If 20mm's were this effective in real life the Germans would have stuck with the Panzer II and the Sturmovik never would have been upgunned to 37mm, and the PaK 36 would have ruled over the PaK 43....I mean seriously lets use common sense.
 
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#31
Well written, Jack. Well, what else did I expect from a fellow CMBB player ;)

I guess in real life, every single 20mm shot that didn't penetrate did not do any persistant damage on the enemy tank. It didn't matter if you fired 5 non-penetrating shots or 50, the enemy tank would never die.

But here, suddenly, 5 non-penetrating shots are as good as two 50mm rounds penetrating. Sadly the five 20mm shots can be fired faster.

The game, in large areas, is really good and realistic - but this joke on Hedgehog yesterday evening was one of these moments when I had to shut it down before punching trough my Acer 20" TFT (which would be a shame really).
 
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#33
I think the whole armor system is extremely flawed, the T-60 and SU-76 only being the tip of the iceberg. Why are there no one shot kills? The only time I've been killed by the first shot, is by PTRD while in Panzer 4 :rolleyes:

Why is Tiger AP ammunition bouncing off the sides and rear of a T-34? All in all, why on earth do tanks use an incredibly arcadish hit point based system in otherwise realistic game?

I personally think the whole armour system needs a complete overhaul. Afterall, this isn't Battlefield 1942: Ostfront.
 
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#34
Helmut_AUT said:
Sorry, but my history books didn't tell me T60 was a mighty heavy super tank. But from the performance in this game, you wonder why Sovjets ever built T-34.
Tonight at hedgehog, I often landed the first hit with my 50mm AP ammo. But the T60, everytime, shrugged it off and with two or three 20mm shots, kills the PzIII. Before you can even reload.
In the end no one on german team was playing Tank crew anymore because it was pointless. T60 can't be killed but can kill PzIII with just three to four shots?
I'm not a bad tanker...even back in the mod me and my teammate would often be top scoring tank crew. But this is absolutly unreal.
Oh please, fix this thing. This is unbelivable.
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agreed. I've read so much WWII stuff it's not funny, and I do not recall one single "Gee that t-60 kicked ass" story. :D

I only recall seeing photos of them smoking along the Smolensk-Moscow highway, and in the aftermath of the Kiev pocket. :cool:

EDIT: with the tank charts we were given, showing the vulnerable spots on the tanks, you'd figure there *should* be some one-shot kills. The only time I get them with anything approaching consistency, is when I'm in a JS-2 and I am facing off against a Pz 4. then I can "brew" them in one shot at roughly 70% of the time. wierd.
 
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#35
EvilAmericanMan said:
The SU-76 is also wayyyy buggy. I've seen one get shot about 10 times from a Tiger and all of the Tiger's shots bounced off. The SU wasn't even angled. That's bull****! In real life, well the crews often called it "Little *****" or "Naked-ass Ferdinand." You can see that in real life it was cheaply made, but pretty crappy.
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Yes, and almost never used in a AT-direct fire mode as a result. Almost always used as mobile artillery instead. Not a very good weapon, but a decent artillery piece.
 
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#36
The t60 was never intended to mix it up as a main battle tank. The Russians were forced to use it that way due to the excessive losses of battle tanks in the first weeks of the war. Unfortunately, this game does not model its real deficencies. Mainly being the small one man turret and the lack of a radio. The t-60 and SU76 should be death traps against German PzIIIs.
 
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#40
Helmut_AUT said:
Well written, Jack. Well, what else did I expect from a fellow CMBB player ;)
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Well from what I gather the research findings of TW are not in total agreement with that of the team who created CMBB. I could be wrong but that is what it seems like to me. It seems obvious that you guys take CMBB as the bible of WWII tanks and you are entitled to that take. I'm not going to argue with you about it. I'm also not going to argue with a WWII historian like Alan Wilson(Wilsonam) either. You can check the sources they used in making the game and maybe compare with what the CMBB team used. The list of sources are here: http://www.redorchestragame.com/index.php?categoryid=3&p13_sectionid=5&p13_fileid=19

It may also be important to take note of what Alan has to say in this post here: http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?p=74900#post74900
 
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