Sway

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SingeDebile

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
325
34
0
This really MUST be changed for the final release!

and I am worried if it is not it will likely never change as it would significantly affect stats and progression.

The ranges people are getting kills is crazy, I remember someone having posted a piece with interviews on the TOP German snipers of WW2 and these are ranges they in all their experience would have hesitated with.. not too mention a LV1 raw recruit (stats wise) with a unscoped Kar!

please please, :IS2:

(if there is only ONE thing to be adjusted this is the greatest game breaker)
 
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Maizel

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 21, 2011
973
372
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This really MUST be changed for the final release!

and I am worried if it is not it will likely never change as it would significantly affect stats and progression.

The ranges people are getting kills is crazy, I remember someone having posted a piece with interviews on the TOP German snipers of WW2 and these are ranges they in all their experience would have hesitated with.. not too mention a LV1 raw recruit (stats wise) with a unscoped Kar!

please please, :IS2:

(if there is only ONE thing to be adjusted this is the greatest game breaker)

I totally agree.

On the very least it should be increased for hardcore.

Between the (lack of) sway and zoom, pretty much every shot is a 100% kill on any range. The fact that depleted stamina has a negligible impact on sway don;t help matters much either.


This is my biggest gripe with the game as well. Increasing the sway will improve the game for people that want a more RO1 like experience more than any other single change and simply must be increased for hardcore mode, or at the very least be changeable in custom settings.
 
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SingeDebile

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
325
34
0
precisely, if we have to keep the zoom.. please atleast bring back the Sway for ROOST for the "hardcore" servers
 

Hesgad

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 6, 2011
446
130
0
Germany
I agree for sway after sprinting but when fully rested and gun rested on ground ect no then its just fine how it is weapons dont sway around in your arms in real life so im fine with it
 
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Maizel

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 21, 2011
973
372
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I agree for sway after sprinting but when fully rested and gun rested on ground ect no then its just fine how it is weapons dont sway around in your arms in real life so im fine with it

I could even settle for this at the very least. AT least it would mean a tradeoff between sprinting often and having accuracy.

But for the rest I stand by my previous post.
 

nebsif

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 12, 2011
371
298
0
precisely, if we have to keep the zoom.. please atleast bring back the Sway for ROOST for the "hardcore" servers
Why do people want to be less accurate than they would be IRL (Ro1), it was explained bazillion times that with the zoom you see people in the same (big) proportions you would IRL.

Agree on stamina sway, but overall i'd like it to stay more or less the same. I disliked the "exaggerated" and frustrating realism of RO1 just as much as I hate run and gun LMGs in BC2.
Plus with the realistic recoil we have now, a general sway increase would gimp bolt action rifles even more since semi's and SMGs can just spam and dont rely on single all-or-nothing shots like bolts do.
 

negocromn

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 23, 2011
66
39
0
Yes to more sway, specially after sprinting.

As it is right now, I can hit 10 targets in 10 secs at 200m range, a tiny bit of sway would make things more interesting and help gameplay yes.
 

Maizel

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 21, 2011
973
372
0
Why do people want to be less accurate than they would be IRL (Ro1), it was explained bazillion times that with the zoom you see people in the same (big) proportions you would IRL.

Agree on stamina sway, but overall i'd like it to stay more or less the same. I disliked the "exaggerated" and frustrating realism of RO1 just as much as I hate run and gun LMGs in BC2.
Plus with the realistic recoil we have now, a general sway increase would gimp bolt action rifles even more since semi's and SMGs can just spam and dont rely on single all-or-nothing shots like bolts do.

I respect that, but that;s why they included 2 different , and a custom mode.

It's definitely something that should be alterable.
 

nebsif

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 12, 2011
371
298
0
I respect that, but that;s why they included 2 different , and a custom mode.

It's definitely something that should be alterable.

Meh, what I like about current modes is that its the same game.
Only that in relaxed realism you have more nametags or w/e, but the mechanics, damage and all that are the same which is why I can just join any server instead of nitpicking for the one with X turned on, Y off, Z on, Q and W increased etc.

I dont care about minimap, nametags and all that HUD stuff but I do care about damage/accuracy/health changing from mode to mode or server to server. Dont want to end up playing the same server every day just because all others have wierdo settings and/or high ping, might not seem like a problem now but when the mods come out..
 

aop

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 28, 2006
242
67
0
Why do people want to be less accurate than they would be IRL (Ro1), it was explained bazillion times that with the zoom you see people in the same (big) proportions you would IRL.

Agree on stamina sway, but overall i'd like it to stay more or less the same. I disliked the "exaggerated" and frustrating realism of RO1 just as much as I hate run and gun LMGs in BC2.
Plus with the realistic recoil we have now, a general sway increase would gimp bolt action rifles even more since semi's and SMGs can just spam and dont rely on single all-or-nothing shots like bolts do.
This!

How many of you actually own guns and go to range regurarly? If you have no experience of real firearms you shouldn't be demanding "realism" because you most likely don't have any idea how real firearms handle. Sometimes when I go to range with friends we put up 20cm by 20cm metal plates at 50m range and then shoot them from standing position. It's fun and hitting them isn't hard (ridiculously easy with AK + red dot, somewhat harder with Mosin-Nagants and no optics).

IRL one big factor is trigger pull (up to 3kg on MN rifles) which can't be modelled in games unless you want to delay every shot...

Longest ranges the beta infantry maps have are around 200m and most firefights take place at 20-100m range where hitting a man sized target is easy IRL.

RO1 sway was unrealistic. If you want that you can go play RO1.
 

Maizel

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 21, 2011
973
372
0
Meh, what I like about current modes is that its the same game.
Only that in relaxed realism you have more nametags or w/e, but the mechanics, damage and all that are the same which is why I can just join any server instead of nitpicking for the one with X turned on, Y off, Z on, Q and W increased etc.

I dont care about minimap, nametags and all that HUD stuff but I do care about damage/accuracy/health changing from mode to mode or server to server. Dont want to end up playing the same server every day just because all others have wierdo settings and/or high ping, might not seem like a problem now but when the mods come out..

You can filter alot of the stuff out. I can understand the individual player feeling this way, but I would hope TWI doesn;t choose to omit us having a wide array of options, because it might inconvenience some players who might not know how to work server filters effectively.


RO1 sway was unrealistic. If you want that you can go play RO1.


How is this helpful? Having a ~100% steady aim, after sprinting across half the map 10 times is not very realistic either. Realism aside, I also feel it takes away from the general experience, and I think a sufficient number of people feel this way to at least have the option to alter it, or let it have more impact on hardcore. Isn't that why they put the relaxed mode in? To have a hardcore mode?
 
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negocromn

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 23, 2011
66
39
0
"OMG I HAVE ALMOST NO SWAY ON MY SUNDAY TARGET PRACTICE AT THE RANGE, THE WW2 SOLDIER PEAKING HIS HEAD OFF COVER FOR A SEC ON THE MIDDLE OF THE BATTLE OF STALINGRAD SHOULD HAVE A PERFECT SHOT TOO"

no one is asking to make your screen shake, just a small tiny thing so you take a second more or something to fire on someone across the map.
 
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prowokator

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 1, 2006
123
16
0
Finland
Sway is fine IMO as it is now, but it STAMINA should have a lot more effect to it. Heavy breathing makes your aim ****, no matter what pose you're in. OFC when prone the breathing is the main thing swaying your gun, mostly up and down.
 
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Black Valor

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 1, 2011
46
18
0
The ranges people are getting kills is crazy, I remember someone having posted a piece with interviews on the TOP German snipers of WW2 and these are ranges they in all their experience would have hesitated with..

200 meters
Fell out of my chair laughing, thanks for that.

"OMG I HAVE ALMOST NO SWAY ON MY SUNDAY TARGET PRACTICE AT THE RANGE, THE WW2 SOLDIER PEAKING HIS HEAD OFF COVER FOR A SEC ON THE MIDDLE OF THE BATTLE OF STALINGRAD SHOULD HAVE A PERFECT SHOT TOO"

no one is asking to make your screen shake, just a small tiny thing so you take a second more or something to fire on someone across the map.

What would a random element like this add to the game? Realism? Debatable.

All random crap like this does is make the gameplay experience more irritating for the user.
 
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Oook!

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 31, 2011
131
11
0
This is true, however people do like assume the role of the definitive authority of what a WW2 soldier could and could not do.

That said having a mechanic where you randomly spawn as a soldier too scared to even pull the trigger would not be enjoyable at all. Even if it would arguably be realistic :p
 

SingeDebile

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
325
34
0
this is exatly why I brought up the reference from the TOP WW2 german snipers.........

"The ranges people are getting kills is crazy, I remember someone having posted a piece with interviews on the TOP German snipers of WW2 and these are ranges they in all their experience would have hesitated with.. not too mention a LV1 raw recruit (stats wise) with a unscoped Kar!"


if someone can find and link this post it would be helpful,

as it stands now there is essentially NO sway (even standing un supported after sprinting to exhaustion), and the accuracy this allows is just too great.. .its beyond simply being unrealistic
 
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Disarray

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 2, 2011
23
0
0
The sway over all is good when standing still. There should be perhaps a little when resting a weapon on a ledge or wall or what have you; I know from first hand experiance that they do move a fair bit just from breathing and what not. When movinging the sway seems a bout right, maybe a little less than it should be; a rifle, even as long as they were back then, is fairly easy to keep under control even while walking and you would have little to no problem with a shorted SMG. After sprinting the weapon should move a fair ammount, heavy breathing and all.

The simple fact is that these weapons aren't all that heavy: The Kar98 only weigs about 8 lbs, 3ish kilos. The modern M16A4 is about as heavy as that and it is very easy to hold on target once you get the hang of it. The explanation of the long shot being easly made in the game have little to do with rifle sway or zoom. In my opinion it comes down to missing bulet mechanincs. As far as I can tell the minute of angle isn't factored into the bullet trajectories. To break it down for those that don't know the minute of angle is the balistic error of a bulet after it is fired and can be calculated for any bulet fire from any weapon based on a number of chericteristcs. For example a 5.56mm round fired out of an M16 serise rifle will any were with in a 1m diamiter of the point of aim at 300m; basicaly you can aim dead center on a man's chest, adjusting for bulet drop will put the point of aim about his coller bone though, and the bulet may well miss him entierly even if you do everything right. This circle gets smaller the closer you are to the beral of the gun and wider the further you get from it; effectively creating a cone. As I understand things this cone isn't in the game, at least not as signifigantly as it should be at longer ranges.

This is why all those sniper's shots are from closer range than in game, at the game ranges the chance to miss goes up fairly sharply and they didn't want to risk a shot if it was unlikely to hit.

As for the zoom effect making it easyer to see targets at range. It simply dosen't. I have shot with iorn sights a lot, and at man sized and shaped targets. What you see in game is a lot like what you see down range. You can even range your shots by sight if you have an eye trained for distance based soley off of how big the target is. My eye is trained for a rugh estamate and I have yet to be far enuf off on my guess that it would cause to over or under shoot the target.
 

aop

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 28, 2006
242
67
0
as it stands now there is essentially NO sway (even standing un supported after sprinting to exhaustion), and the accuracy this allows is just too great.. .its beyond simply being unrealistic
Aim down your sights and don't move the mouse. I think the sights are wandering a bit but not nearly as bad as in RO1.

I agree that sprinting should cause some additional sway but remember that the maps are small and the sprinting distances are short.
 

derknorf

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 19, 2011
45
3
0
The current system seems fine. What makes it difficult for soldiers to hit their targets isn't the fact that the gun is all over the place, but because some other people are trying to shoot them too. That is how RO2 seems to be working right now. On Fallen Fighters I can hit targets 150 meters away solidly if I can spot them and line up the shot without being killed, but very often I only can catch a glimpse of a target darting between cover or I suddenly find myself underfire while trying to line up a shot.


However, I agree that sway needs to be increased after running. Especially if you deplete your stamina and continue to run. Currently I can run from one side of a map to the other and at the end have negligible problems from exhaustion.
 

Maizel

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 21, 2011
973
372
0
Aim down your sights and don't move the mouse. I think the sights are wandering a bit but not nearly as bad as in RO1.

I agree that sprinting should cause some additional sway but remember that the maps are small and the sprinting distances are short.

True, they are shotr, but I only ever see people sprinting, 24/7, stopping only to shoot people or when they reach the spot they're going to defend or camp.

I spend 90% of my round running, to no ill short or longterm effect on my aim.