Sway is WAY too small

[brain]

I absolutely agree, it is absurd to think that anyone could sprint for 30 seconds then be able to hit a head-sized target at 200yards within a second or two.


The "hold breath" feature with the shift zoom is also very unrealistic. As a shooter, I can tell you that there is no way to magically cancel out every variable that makes shooting difficult, even for a second. In fact, the harder you try, the worse they get - strain all your muscles to hold the gun perfectly still, and you'll just tremble more. Hold your breath and your aim gets even more unstable. And I'm talking about relaxed range shooting, not "holy **** that guy just got blown up and I had to run a mile with bullets kicking up dirt all around me" conditions.

The way to shoot accurately is to study the way your sights move when you steady your gun. Then learn to "go with the flow" and time your shots with your natural movement. For example, a good friend of mine always tries to breath steadily and fire as his sight passes from the top of its "swing" to the bottom, pulling the trigger just as it passes over the target.

There is absolutely no debate as to whether adding sway would be realistic - it clearly would be. I think it'd also add another element of skill to the game, as bolts would be a little harder to master. In addition MGs would be better since they wouldn't get insta-sniped the second they popped up in a window - you'd actually have a second to suppress enemy riflemen as they aimed at you.


TL;DR: A moderate amount of sway in ironsights would be realistic and good for gameplay. Like in RO1, it should increase drastically when you're exhausted.

 

[mechanicalDR]

So far RO2 is closer to Darkest Hour then it is RO1, and for that I love it. It needs a little bit of initial sway after exhausting your sprint bar, but not overboard like it is in RO1.

HEY GUYS IN THE THREAD, DON'T BE DICKS. No point in being one.

 

[NoxNoctum]

Whatever, insert weapon of choice. That wasn't the point of the post at all.

That won't work, only noobs "brace their gun" because it takes forever and is only going to get you shot if the guy on the other side is anything above utterly worthless. The only way to kill campers is by taking quick pop up shots, and you can't "brace your gun" when doing that. Too much sway will only hurt the dynamics, favoring skill-less camping even further than it already is in this game.

Yes you can, cover system. Pop up and you're supported instantly. I don't use it most of the time but it's useful for that situation you're describing.

Stop calling everyone who disagrees with you a "noob" btw, it's really childish.

 

[Deek]

Having sway be directly proportionate to the amount of stamina you have remaining would be brilliant. If you come out of a full sprint into iron sights with a depleted stamina bar, there should be noticeable sway. As it refills, less sway. That said, there should never be zero sway.

 

[kalle]

I aslo agree! I was looking forward to the new cover sytem to easier be able to brace the weapon, but it turns out that bracing isn't needed at all anymore. I'm not saying that is should be as hard to fire standing as it was in RO:O, just that there should be enough sway to make bracing useful again.

 

[THD]

Your post was BS tbh, it has nothing to do with not being able to kill people while attacking. You really think you could run for 20-30 seconds at top speed, bring up your rifle and while unsupported pick someone off at 100 meters without even catching a breath?

And what the hell was wikipedia about? You just throw out these random things I didn't even mention...

You missed the point completely, first of all it is not about realism, it is about gameplay. This game as opposed to ro1 is already leaning heavily towards camping, since you've got zoom, superior accuracy, inferior hip shooting accuracy, better smg/mg, suppression, reduced visibility etc. And people are still asking for changes to make camping even more effective! It doesn't matter how realistic it is, if the gameplay sucks, and it will if everyone camps (you should see fallen fighters in earlier closed betas, when everyone was sitting in the buildings around the square, it was terrible), the only people who will play this will be those who dreamed of joining the army but were too fat to be allowed.

 

[easton1234]

We need more sway!

 

[Maizel]

You missed the point completely, first of all it is not about realism, it is about gameplay. This game as opposed to ro1 is already leaning heavily towards camping, since you've got zoom, superior accuracy, inferior hip shooting accuracy, better smg/mg, suppression, reduced visibility etc. And people are still asking for changes to make camping even more effective! It doesn't matter how realistic it is, if the gameplay sucks, and it will if everyone camps (you should see fallen fighters in earlier closed betas, when everyone was sitting in the buildings around the square, it was terrible), the only people who will play this will be those who dreamed of joining the army but were too fat to be allowed.

There are better way to deal with campers than to just take sway away as a relevant factor in the game.

Common sense is one. Checking rooms carefully before storming in and getting killed by campers is two, Smoke and grenades, number three and four. Many options.

 

[THD]

Yes you can, cover system. Pop up and you're supported instantly. I don't use it most of the time but it's useful for that situation you're describing.

Stop calling everyone who disagrees with you a "noob" btw, it's really childish.

That is exactly what I meant when I said it was utterly useless because it is too slow. If you don't believe me, we can go on an empty server and ill pop you a headshot exactly every time you try to hit me from your cover, and I'll do that before you even see me at all, let alone are ready to shoot.

 

[Paas]

I absolutely agree, it is absurd to think that anyone could sprint for 30 seconds then be able to hit a head-sized target at 200yards within a second or two.


The "hold breath" feature with the shift zoom is also very unrealistic. As a shooter, I can tell you that there is no way to magically cancel out every variable that makes shooting difficult, even for a second. In fact, the harder you try, the worse they get - strain all your muscles to hold the gun perfectly still, and you'll just tremble more. Hold your breath and your aim gets even more unstable. And I'm talking about relaxed range shooting, not "holy **** that guy just got blown up and I had to run a mile with bullets kicking up dirt all around me" conditions.

The way to shoot accurately is to study the way your sights move when you steady your gun. Then learn to "go with the flow" and time your shots with your natural movement. For example, a good friend of mine always tries to breath steadily and fire as his sight passes from the top of its "swing" to the bottom, pulling the trigger just as it passes over the target.

There is absolutely no debate as to whether adding sway would be realistic - it clearly would be. I think it'd also add another element of skill to the game, as bolts would be a little harder to master. In addition MGs would be better since they wouldn't get insta-sniped the second they popped up in a window - you'd actually have a second to suppress enemy riflemen as they aimed at you.


TL;DR: A moderate amount of sway in ironsights would be realistic and good for gameplay. Like in RO1, it should increase drastically when you're exhausted.

Actually, it's not absurd at all. You can control your breathing, thus sight picture, while you regaining your breath.

More sporadic breathing pattern while being suppressed actually makes some kind of sense. Maybe even making your stamina come back much slower if you decide to sight in/control your breathing after sprinting? Maybe slow down the meter to a 1/4 of the recharge rate? Really, it takes about 1 second to regain your composure after shouldering your weapon. So while controlling your breathing you're looking at maybe 8 seconds until you're good to run again, but nowhere near the same distance as your initial burst. NBA2k11 actually has a pretty good system that simulates the affect of stamina. You have your initial lung capacity that if exceeded begins to dig into your fatigue bar. Every sprint to failure would become shorter than the last until you gave yourself ample time (minutes) to fully recover.

I don't think anything good would come of making the sight picture unrealistically wild at short ranges though(300m and under). The current sway I see in game, standing and unsupported, makes it pretty difficult to hit a shot at 200+ meters if you don't shoot in between breaths. It's not hard to keep a weapon under control when winded, it just becomes a matter of timing and trigger control.

-Paas

 

[mechanicalDR]

You missed the point completely, first of all it is not about realism, it is about gameplay. This game as opposed to ro1 is already leaning heavily towards camping, since you've got zoom, superior accuracy, inferior hip shooting accuracy, better smg/mg, suppression, reduced visibility etc. And people are still asking for changes to make camping even more effective! It doesn't matter how realistic it is, if the gameplay sucks, and it will if everyone camps (you should see fallen fighters in earlier closed betas, when everyone was sitting in the buildings around the square, it was terrible), the only people who will play this will be those who dreamed of joining the army but were too fat to be allowed.

I hope you don't go out into society acting like such a prick. You'll only be frowned upon in the Red Orchestra community acting like this.

People camp because they are new to Red Orchestra and don't know that they should*n't* be camping. If you had a full team of players who knew what to do, there would be no problem. The mechanics would therefore not be a problem, they are after all, trying to reflect realistic gun play. That is what a lot of people came here for.

 

[ruduvuc]

Since my first post is still in the maws of quick reply moderation and i can't take it, ill post.


No, at least not overdone as i imagine many people here would like. I like that you can pull a quick shot at a subpar/asleep defender who takes seconds to slowly reel his crosshair to a target as you spot him. He has a serious edge anyway, and tough **** if he can't capitalize.

You could just destroy mouse feel like ArmA if you want your realism.

 

[THD]

There are better way to deal with campers than to just take sway away as a relevant factor in the game.

Common sense is one. Checking rooms carefully before storming in and getting killed by campers is two, Smoke and grenades, number three and four. Many options.

This is abstract stuff which really is useless in reality. Suppose I'm sitting behind sandbags with an mg and know exactly where you are. Please describe how your common sense will help you to defeat me.

 

[Empty Box]

You missed the point completely, first of all it is not about realism, it is about gameplay. This game as opposed to ro1 is already leaning heavily towards camping, since you've got zoom, superior accuracy, inferior hip shooting accuracy, better smg/mg, suppression, reduced visibility etc. And people are still asking for changes to make camping even more effective! It doesn't matter how realistic it is, if the gameplay sucks, and it will if everyone camps (you should see fallen fighters in earlier closed betas, when everyone was sitting in the buildings around the square, it was terrible), the only people who will play this will be those who dreamed of joining the army but were too fat to be allowed.

...Or people who enjoy realism.

Given this is more towards the sim end of the spectrum, the game should reflect that. If you have an issue with people behaving in a realistic manner, I suggest you go play CoD2. It's a pretty fine game, honestly.

This isn't Quake, it isn't CoD, it isn't ARMA II. Seems the common cry is "ZOMG This is CoD!", yet then they complain about camping and features that are realistic - thus perpetuating their cycle of whining.

 

[mechanicalDR]

This is abstract stuff which really is useless in reality. Suppose I'm sitting behind sandbags with an mg and know exactly where you are. Please describe how your common sense will help you to defeat me.

Smoke grenades, the marksman or anyone of our riflemen can take you out if you have yourself exposed to a 180 degree firing angle.

 

[WiFiDi]

when exasusted sway is way to small. personally its fine the rest of the time.

 

[THD]

Smoke grenades, the marksman or anyone of our riflemen can take you out if you have yourself exposed to a 180 degree firing angle.

But I don't, I can only be shot from where I can shoot myself, so I will shoot your marksman and all of your riflemen in the head (because they will have lots of sway and thus spend ages trying to rest their guns), which is beside the point anyway, because I wasn't talking about letting your team deal with me, calling artillery on me or a tactical nuclear strike, an H-bomb etc. If you are the rifleman, and you need to get rid of me, what exactly are you going to do?

 

[Deek]

If someone is braced behind cover, focused (zoomed) AND has my location, or at least knows where I am likely to approach from, he should end up victorious more often than not. 1-on-1, I'm toast. That's just how it is. He has the advantage in every possible way. At that point, I either abort my assault and find another avenue of approach or I throw smoke and a bunch of warm bodies and pray for luck and target saturation. Seems fine to me.

 

[mechanicalDR]

But I don't, I can only be shot from where I can shoot myself, so I will shoot your marksman and all of your riflemen in the head (because they will have lots of sway and thus spend ages trying to rest their guns), which is beside the point anyway, because I wasn't talking about letting your team deal with me, calling artillery on me or a tactical nuclear strike, an H-bomb etc. If you are the rifleman, and you need to get rid of me, what exactly are you going to do?

Yes because you can instantly zap a whole team of people who know what their doing while making yourself the biggest targets on the entire map with your mg lighting up. This was never a problem in darkest hour. MG's did what they were supposed to. When mg's were in overlapping fields of fire and people couldn't advance because of it, smoke got you up to the mg'ers and you kept pushing further. This isn't about 1v1 riflemen on mg'er. It all depends on the situation. If the riflemen is in an open field and the mg'er is in cover, of course he gonna get cut down. If hes got cover to advance on, he way as well shoot you when you don't see him. All depends.

 

[Dr. Pierre Chang]

I would like a more pronounced sway when standing unsupported. As it is I see no real reason for crouching or resting a weapon except to lessen the size of the target you make for the enemy.