Suppression

[THE_An0mOLy!]

I'll put it bluntly; suppression, as it stands, Does Not Work in RO2.

Why?

Because the colour/sound fading out around you 'slightly' is no reason to hide. It is in fact more reason to get up and start shooting because that way you're a lot less likely to die then simply hiding behind a wall.

Suppression should work like it does in the battlefield 2 mod - Project Reality (imo)

Suppression in that game means the colour doesn't just drain slightly - BUT THAT YOU CANNOT AIM/SEE ANYTHING AT ALL meaning that return fire is essentially blind fire.



This enables MG to be a Useful class ( as it stands its only useful for an assault wweapon replacement and rushing into buildings)

1vs 1 MG will lose 9 times out of 10 vs a rifleman because the rifleman can aim perfectly while the MG's accuracy means it is going to have a real tough tim hitting the Rifleman.

Realistically suppression should *make* you do your best to take cover when under distant/heavy weapons fire - not merely help you find targets.



A bit extreme in my examples I know but my point still stands - suppression should be a dramatic change. Not merely a tonal annoyance.

 

[Raneman]

The way soldiers react to suppression in this game makes the Space Marines of the Imperium look like cowards. I support this.

 

[captain max707]

The suppression is the first RO was near perfect. There was only a split second of screen interference, which it made it feel like your soldier was flinching. If an MG was firing at you, the effect would last longer because of more impacts.

The bullet sounds were more pronounced over the visual effect, and this (to me) made it feel more realistic. My aiming and awareness weren't artificially being tampered with, I was hitting the deck because I didn't want to lose my head.

I think suppression should be more subtle visually, but very pronounced audibly.


I could be remembering DH instead of Ostfront. Either way, I preferred those to the current system.

 

[Frostedfire]

thanks for making it a public poll; I can smell the downvote vendettas being formed now...

one problem is that suppression is tied to the morale bar, which includes, among other things, tank engines. I had this problem once where I was in one of the tunnels in fallenheroes, and couldn't hide on one side of the t-junction because a tank had fallen into the crater and was suppressing me. I wouldn't want to be blinded because I walked slightly close to a vehicle and had my morale drained, and a similar situation if someone walked into the far side of a room while there was artillery landing outside.

the other problem is that "distant" fire is usually 50-100m, where it isn't too hard to put shots in their direction. I'd first like to see how effective it works at longer ranges like in ogledow where you're spamming a lot more @ 200+ m, maybe nudge the victim's aim a little more but nothing too drastic

 

[Nikita]

Hm... your example is indeed extreme--it's not as if bullets passing by you cause you to go blind...

The problem isn't suppression--it's not enough sway and too much zoom. The suppression does a fine job of disturbing your aim when the bullets are flying by, but you press shift and presto: the extra sway is gone, you can see who's shooting at you, and you just need to re-center the sights a tiny bit, which is simple with fine control.

Now, if sway were increased and zoom were decreased, let's say you were perfectly lined up on that enemy machine gunner when he opened fire on you. In defiance of common sense, you rise out from cover and try to return fire.

Your aim gets thrown off by a centimenter from your instinctive flinch, and now re-aquiring that perfect shot becomes difficult, because the higher base sway makes lining up a shot harder to begin with and the target is now smaller, but now you're breathing faster, shaking, etc... your sights are wandering away from the enemy constantly, and you're trying to compensate using the mouse, and before long, THWACK--you're dead.:IS2:

I'm not sure if what I'm trying to say is clear or not, but basically, if sway is increased, then the aiming disturbances brought about by suppression will matter more, since aquiring a target is now more difficult to begin with.

It's not as if bullets passing by someone will actually elicit a massive bodily reaction--the current effects of blurring, desaturation, increased heartbeat, breathing, and slightly increased sway are quite adequate for their own part, and I don't think the effect itself should be changed.

Two suppression changes would be nice, though--individual shots should suppress more, as currently they barely make an enemy blink. Also, getting hit by a bullet physically should logically deal full suppression and throw off one's aim considerably. Other than that though, I'd say the issue is the sway, not the suppression mechanics themselves.

 

[Raneman]

For those of you that think suppression is fine as it is- please go get shot at and test how effective it is to return fire.

Come back and report the results.

 

[ro_sauce]

the suppression in darkest hour was pretty good.

the suppression in this game is like, where am i getting shot from, oh, thank you suppression overlay.

 

[Golf33]

First a quick disclaimer. Ex-army but I've never been in combat and never been shot at. I have worked in 'butts detail' on the firing range so have had bullets pass nearby. People (there are some on this forum) who have been in combat are better placed to talk about what it's like to be shot at by someone who means it.

There's a few changes I'd like to see to suppression though, to better match up with what I was taught about effective fire and what I recall from range practices.

1. Suppression effects need to be split into mild and severe. Mild suppression would mean greyscale vision, increased heartrate (leading to slightly increased sway), and maybe slight blurring. Severe suppression would mean a sharp involuntary move in the point of aim, greatly increased heartrate (leading to greatly increased sway), severe blurring and brief blanking of the player's screen.

2. Supersonic bullets (all or nearly all of RO2's weapons at close range, and all the rifles / LMGs / assault rifles at any range) passing nearby make a lot of noise. There is a loud, sharp 'crack' as the bullet passes overhead, then a slightly less loud 'thump' from the weapon as you hear the bullet being fired. The time lag between these sounds tells you how far away the firer is. The bigger the bullet, the louder these sounds (especially the 'crack') are.

3. Bullets that impact nearby make noise and kick up a lot of dust, stone / brick / wood chips. That spalling should cause involuntary flinching and blinking plus adrenalin dump. In game that would be represented by brief, severe suppression: a sharp shift in the point of aim, brief blanking of the screen, and increased sway as adrenalin makes the hands shake and interferes with fine motor control.

4. Bullets that pass further away have little or no effect. On battle innoculation ranges we had live MG fire going about 12 feet overhead and I wasn't even aware of it. Severe suppression effects should be limited to rounds that pass or impact within 1m of the player. Rounds that pass within 2 or 3 metres could cause mild suppression only, along with seeing a friendly get hit on-screen or having it happen within your peripheral vision.

5. Suppression by small-arms is supposedly a pretty short-lived affair. Severe suppression effects from a nearby bullet strike or passage should wear off after a second. Subsequent shots should renew the effect. Mild suppression could last a bit longer but not be enough to prevent the player from returning fire reasonably effectively.

6. Suppression by artillery (and to a lesser extent grenades) should be more severe and longer-lasting than severe suppression by small-arms fire. There should be longer screen blanking (~1 second) when shells explode nearby, sway and blurring should be very greatly increased, all sound should be decreased for ~10 seconds as the blasts cause temporary deafness. If a player is snapped to cover and an artillery shell lands on the other side of cover, I'd even consider forcing the player to crouch briefly behind the cover.

 

[Dr.Phibles]

the suppresion in DH is perfect doesnt really mess up your vision so you can still take cover easily but jolts your aim off making it very difficult to return fire accurately

 

[_Dariuszek_]

When you set "DepthOfField False" suppression effect is even weaker.

 

[Kleist]

When you set "DepthOfField False" suppression effect is even weaker.

For RO2?

Nice to know... why can people change all this settings... that

 

[Vyllis]

I support this.

 

[Apos]

I'll put it bluntly; suppression, as it stands, Does Not Work in RO2.

Why?

Because the colour/sound fading out around you 'slightly' is no reason to hide. It is in fact more reason to get up and start shooting because that way you're a lot less likely to die then simply hiding behind a wall.

Suppression should work like it does in the battlefield 2 mod - Project Reality (imo)

Suppression in that game means the colour doesn't just drain slightly - BUT THAT YOU CANNOT AIM/SEE ANYTHING AT ALL meaning that return fire is essentially blind fire.



This enables MG to be a Useful class ( as it stands its only useful for an assault wweapon replacement and rushing into buildings)

1vs 1 MG will lose 9 times out of 10 vs a rifleman because the rifleman can aim perfectly while the MG's accuracy means it is going to have a real tough tim hitting the Rifleman.

Realistically suppression should *make* you do your best to take cover when under distant/heavy weapons fire - not merely help you find targets.



A bit extreme in my examples I know but my point still stands - suppression should be a dramatic change. Not merely a tonal annoyance.

RO:O had better idea of suppression, it kept you down when MG was firing. Darkest Hour mod improved it and made it nearly perfect.

In RO2 suppression doesn't do much to keep you pinned. It only gives you notification where is enemy MG (and then you stop, raise your weapon, take an accurate shot, kill poor MG gunner in less then 1 second and run again).

 

[Colt .45 killer]

The suppression is the first RO was near perfect. There was only a split second of screen interference, which it made it feel like your soldier was flinching. If an MG was firing at you, the effect would last longer because of more impacts.

The bullet sounds were more pronounced over the visual effect, and this (to me) made it feel more realistic. My aiming and awareness weren't artificially being tampered with, I was hitting the deck because I didn't want to lose my head.

I think suppression should be more subtle visually, but very pronounced audibly.

Near perfect, which is why if you search on the old RO forums section you wont find anyone complaining about how much it sucked, or how prevalent popup riflemen were and how easy it was to pick off a MG even if he was trying his hardest to surpress & kill you.

 

[LordKhaine]

RO:O had better idea of suppression, it kept you down when MG was firing. Darkest Hour mod improved it and made it nearly perfect.

I personally found the suppression in RO1 to be so weak as to be useless. It didn't at all keep mg's down, it just made them very easy targets. I find suppression in RO2 does more than it does in RO1. Though that doesn't mean much really.

Now DH, that is an entirely different beast. I do love the suppression in that. As you say, it's pretty spot on.

 

[Marxman]

Project Reality's suppression is way too much IMO. Something akin to DH suppression would be perfect. The current suppression system is broken as all hell. I can friggin lay on the trigger of an MG at a single target, emptying my entire drum at him, and halfway through a burst he'll pop up and one shot me. It works both ways. When people are sending bullets my way I usually lean out of cover ever so lightly and shoot them, despite the torrential downpour of lead.

 

[LugNut]

I'm not a fan of blurring vision = suppression at all.

I much prefer increased heartrate/breathing and sway like in ARMA. You can see the enemy if you poke your head out, but you have a hard time lining up on them. It pretty much removes the "pop up and one shot kill the mg" hero play and replaces it with "this is pretty desperate, but I'm going to throw a lot of lead down range and either suppress them, get lucky or die trying."

That, plus the fact that impacts around you throw up dust and bullet sounds are more accurate are enough to make you hunker down and get your real heart rate up.

 

[Tenko]

Ghost Recon : Future Soldier , does what RO2 does, but the screen shakes VIOLENTLY and your vison dims to a point, thatd be best

 

[teemu92]

I agree, there should be more of a effect!

 

[_Dariuszek_]

For RO2?

Nice to know... why can people change all this settings... that