suppression

[ceacar99]

So, i'm curious. how is it that a bullet passing by a person causes a complete shift in the iron sights? this gameplay "addition" makes it practically impossible to take down an smg or another automatic weapon troop with a bolt action rifle. even though the smg trooper cant hit anything past twelve feet it doesnt seem to matter considering that the rifleman apparently shivers like a retarded epileptic plagued by parkasins when under fire.

This is highly unrealistic in every sense, more than that it further undermines the importance of the rifleman in gameplay. Please come up with another idea for "suppression" to take effect, such as fog in the effected players vision.

 

[SunSlayer]

i like the way suppression is handeled in this game, even though its unrealistic. i think the real problem is being suppressed by teammates. how are you supposed to help an mg-guy when he screws your aiming completely with every shot?

 

[pepihoh]

Adrenalin rushes screw up your fine motor skills,making your aim jump. I would really like to see how efficient in aiming you would be when bullets start landing around you. I would say that they should actually increase the suppression effects like adding more blur or blackening your screen like project reality does.

 

[DesiQ]

I think everyone on this forum except OP wants suppression to have MORE effect.

 

[ceacar99]

well see i HAVE been shot at.... i am a former marine(2nd tank bn baby). In ro when shot at the player's in game character jumps like he actually was shot. I didnt do that and i dont know a damn marine that was the case either.

in game terms how the current suppression mechanic works out is that the bolt action rifle is relegated to uselessness. A smg troop doesnt actually need to hit the rifleman first. He can begin popping off rounds at the rifleman and the rifleman is so shaken that he cant possibly shoot the smg troop even though he has as much as five seconds to sight in and aim (before the smg troop actually hits the rifleman). so what we have created is a game where accuracy often doesnt matter. both gameplay wise and realism wise its foolishness.

irl example: why do you think the iraqi insurgency went to roadside bombs and such? they couldnt aim! sure they put out a lot of rounds but they'd be gunned down quite easily by soldiers and marines who are actually accurate and proficient with their weapons.

if the laws of red orchestra 2 held true in that real world situation the iraqi insurgents would have actually been effective in firefights. the sheer amount of automatic fire that they spat out would have shaken the marines and soldiers so much they couldnt aim back just like what happens in red orchestra right now. of course ro2 suppression isnt realistic and as such the soldiers and marines just popped the stupid ammo wasting iraqi insurgency.

clearly from a realism view and a gameplay view the current red orchestra 2 system just is a detriment to the game.

 

[jinnwarior]

ever had something really loud pass by your head? you twitch. its just an instinctual reaction. now i'm sure modern troops are trained to avoid this, but probably not in WW2.

 

[ceacar99]

ever had something really loud pass by your head? you twitch. its just an instinctual reaction. now i'm sure modern troops are trained to avoid this, but probably not in WW2.

issue is that mentioned by someone else you are more or less in an adrenaline fueled chemical cocktail at that point. your senses are sort of in a tunnel and the same things dont effect you much.

suppression irl is not that the enemy is unable to aim and shoot back. its that the enemy feels that if he pokes his head out to do so he will be shot. good example of this in red orchestra is when your picking people off from a window. all of the sudden a MASSIVE wave of fire comes in and you narrowly survive the first few shots and you duck out of the window. you just have been suppressed, you technically were able to shoot back but you feel you will die if you try to do so. thats real world suppression at work in the game.

the unrealistic suppression is when your faced off at forty yards against an inaccurate smg player. he cant seem to actually hit you even though your standing still. the problem is that you cannot seem to hit him because he is popping off a round every quarter second and it jiggles the sights around the screen as if he were physically slapping you. the smg wins in this case simply because as the rifleman you have ONE shot and you cannot even aim the weapon under fire.

that is HIGHLY unrealistic. i tell ya if someone keeps shooting at me and missing irl i'll just aim and shoot the moron. the more misses he makes the less afraid i am.

 

[captain max707]

I recently went back to RO1 just to check in on it (it's so sad ) and I think that suppression could be changed very simply and be more effective.

At it's simplest, it could be something like this:

A louder or clearer sound when bullets whiz by. It may be unrealistic (I've never been shot at) but having it louder would make it more alarming. While it's far from awful now, it does feel a little quiet to me.

Less artificial jumping and screen desaturation,and a much shorter, more intense screen distortion. Anyone who played Ostfront should know what I mean.It's hard to describe, but when explosives or shots landed near you, the screen would lose focus for a split second. The longer you were fired at, the longer the effect lasted. This system makes me feel like things are actually impacting near me, and that they are very dangerous.

This is the best video I could find. It's a little over the top compared to what I'm thinking, but it definitely makes you want to hit the ground.

Darkest Hour Suppression Effect - YouTube

As stated by many, many people before me in other threads, suppression at its core is making someone hide because they don't want to get killed. I'd rather have a more intense, if unrealistic effect to make me want to hide rather than one that just disrupts my aiming and vision.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

i think everyone on this forum except op wants suppression to have more effect.

this.


Im sick of the fact that I can lean out and quick snipe a MG who is trying to surpress my position or me in particular. And I dislike it happening to me. It should be difficult to kill a MG who is actively trying to surpress/kill you.

 

[DesiQ]

I really like that suppression effect in DH. It's kind of like time stops for a split second from the stress and shock of having a bullet narrowly miss you. It doesn't make your character flinch so much as it makes him go, "Oh sh—!"

I agree that giving bullets a very loud sonic crack and having more and louder impacts would do a lot to make people feel more vulnerable.

 

[2Lt.Horvath [6th AB]]

I've complained about the suppression since day one. I think a mjor part of it is the sound effects and what's happening around you. More bullet whizs and cracks as well as a general emphasis on bullets landing close to you. The sound of them smashing into concrete and creating lots of dust.

And obviously this has an effect on the player which should be a huge increase in 'shaking' like in ArmA or Resistance and Liberation (HL2 Mod), in the latter the MGs really made you get your head down.

 

[MarioBava]

Two questions

Two questions

about the way the suppression bar works in this game:

1) Does the suppression effect go down when you attach to cover?

2) Does the breath-control key, in addition to being a temporary aiming enhancement affect suppression in any way?

If the answer to either of these is no, it might be something to consider in light of the OP's point.

For 1) if suppression realistically is all about the sense that if you poke your head out of cover you will get shot, this point goes some significant way to encouraging that. Since you can aim and shoot from cover, that's like the OP is saying about being able to aim and shoot back as well.

Regarding 2) I ask about because it would be about what is called "tactical breathing" which is a real technique to calm and control to some extent autonomic stress reactions which affect performance in combat (and other stressful situations) through conscious, measured breathing.

In addition to these I do know the game models inexperience vs. experience in terms of suppression affects. As you level your soldier, he is less affected by suppression (not sure exactly what decreases, but it's there on the profile stats page).

I'm not a soldier so I have no experience with being near-missed by enemy fire. It seemed reasonable, if exaggerated for the purposes of the game, to flinch a bit when bullets fly nearby you. If the OP has a quite valid point, I think the 2 points I mentioned may offer some reasonable compromise to make a rifleman more effect when encountering auto and semi-auto weapons, in addition to the effect of leveling your soldier to decrease the overall suppression.

 

[ceacar99]

Im sick of the fact that I can lean out and quick snipe a MG who is trying to surpress my position or me in particular. And I dislike it happening to me. It should be difficult to kill a MG who is actively trying to surpress/kill you.

realistically machineguns are not close range weapons and most of the fights in red orchestra ARE close range, 50-100m is damn close. in the real world mg does two things well. 1 it lays the smack down on anyone caught in the open(and it does this in ro2 very well) and 2 it hammers targets before they come into effective range of the riflemen. At long ranges it does a very good job of forcing an advancing enemy down into the dirt and slowing enemy forward progress (suppressing).

Further, machineguns have a poor time with individual targets. as demonstrated by the case of sergeant alvin york's story, having personally taken on 35 machinegunners, killing as many as twenty and forcing 130 men to surrender.
http://www.firstworldwar.com/bio/york.htm

sounds to me like you just dont know what each weapon was designed for and actually good at so you want this suppression crap.

i got no problem with screen blur, or darkening effects for suppression. However MY problem is that for each round fired by the enemy, the player's sights jiggle randomly in one direction. So when someone is spitting out rapid semi automatic fire or full automatic fire the sights literally dont stay still and wiggle all over the screen making it pointless to even TRY to fight back.

so a question for all of you here, how many here actually prefer to play as bolt action rifle most of the time? for those who played in the original red orchestra was it the same? i'm betting most of you scramble for automatic weapons at every chance and as such you dont see the terrible things that have been done to the most basic class of the game in the name of "suppression".

 

[maxtt]

Will be good if this unrealistic supression can be disabled or enabled as option.

 

[NikolaiLev]

I like the game's suppression effects. If it's preventing people from returning fire by automatics, then it's doing its job. I don't often see people sniping me back when I give suppression fire.

 

[maxtt]

I like the game's suppression effects. If it's preventing people from returning fire by automatics, then it's doing its job. I don't often see people sniping me back when I give suppression fire.

Not different what you like,this effect is unrealistic.You already have advantage
- semi or fullauto weapon,why need this unrealistic effect?

 

[jackrabbitslim7]

I RO1 the sound was enough I think to make up for the lack of a suppression system. I play almost only as an MG, and if you keep firing and aim well the enemy is suppressed not because of a blurry screen but because he knows he is being shot at and he have a small chance of surviving if he tries to kill you.

The cracking supersonic sound is a good idea, in Arma 2 there is no suppression system but when you hear this sound you just try to find cover asap!

I think that the main problems comes from the fact that people don't fear dying in RO because dying doesn't affect your score negatively and it should (severely) this way you would be forced to stay alive longer, and the re spawn time could be increased too. Kills shouldn't be rewarded as much as survivability I think. Lots of people are bashing the realism of the game, but to me the problem lies most in player's behavior, and I don't think you really need to implement unrealistic tweaks to force realistic game-play but a whole new system of scoring where playing as a team, trying to survive have a close shave and a nice perfume should be rewarding because you're is worth it.

Some examples:


- losing a cap zone = negative points
- dying = negative points (and maybe lower the reinforcement on maps generally)
- staying close to teammates = points (unless you are a sniper or an other class which is not supposed to stick with the rest of the team)
- killing an MG/sniper = more points than killing a starving child
- killing a teammate = - 10 points (ouch!)
- staying out of cap zones = slow loss of score (maybe need to re-size the cap-zones, and adjust the system for some classes)



The introduction of a negative scoring could have a good impact on the player. Actually the only way to really suck like a pro in RO2 is slaughtering all your teammates and you can't suck for long because you'll soon end up being kicked out of the server, while with the new scoring system just doing nothing can have a negative impact on you, pretty cool no?

Just some random ideas.



Best: real mod, if you die you have to buy the game again.

Please feel free to correct my English, insult me if needed.

 

[Cwivey]

ArmA doesn't have a surpression effect? In ArmA, if an enemy shoots the ground near your feet or the wall next to you, you suddenly start breathing like an asmatic horse and can't aim for poop, that and your screen goes a little blury (If you have post processing effects on).

But yes, louder sounds would certainly help in making people not wanna poke their heads out.

 

[jackrabbitslim7]

Ok sorry I've never noticed it and I play almost daily, something is definitely wrong with me ^^.