Suggestions to improve the Patriarch

[Nekronaium]

Hi, I'm kinda new to the game with just 300+ hrs but I feel like the Patriarch is really weak compared to other bosses and I wanted to gave a few suggestions:

1) Improve missiles attack
When the Patriarch shoots someone with his missiles, he shoots in your direction (even through walls). That could be improved by making him to shoot where you were last seen by him. Which is something a normal person would do irl and would make a lot of sense.

2) Improve tentacle grapple
Currently it's really short and it's only helped by the fact that is kinda quick. Make it larger just like Matriarch.

3) Improve escape when he needs to heal
It's really easy to spot him by just throwing an EMP, burning him, posioning him, shoot him with the Hemogobling, etc. I would like to see smokes grenades (like Hans) but just a few or stun the players maybe(?) but I don't know if people would like it.

4) Health buff
He is the weakest of all the bosses and I know that's because he can regen 3 times but since freezing or blocking him with a Berserker is so effective, giving him a bit more health would be better IMO.

5) Improve mortar attack
It's really easy to dodge, maybe change the huge missiles with something like cluster or micro missiles? Something hard to dodge but not impossible, it can have a pattern so it's learnable and improves the skill barrier.

That's all I have to say, honestly I see potential in it's design and that's why I feel this changes could improve him and hope it helped in something.
If you disagree with me, I want to know why and I'll happy to read your replies, thanks

 

[MrtPsr]

Hi, I'm kinda new to the game with just 300+ hrs but I feel like the Patriarch is really weak compared to other bosses and I wanted to gave a few suggestions:

1) Improve missiles attack
When the Patriarch shoots someone with his missiles, he shoots in your direction (even through walls). That could be improved by making him to shoot where you were last seen by him. Which is something a normal person would do irl and would make a lot of sense.

2) Improve tentacle grapple
Currently it's really short and it's only helped by the fact that is kinda quick. Make it larger just like Matriarch.

3) Improve escape when he needs to heal
It's really easy to spot him by just throwing an EMP, burning him, posioning him, shoot him with the Hemogobling, etc. I would like to see smokes grenades (like Hans) but just a few or stun the players maybe(?) but I don't know if people would like it.

4) Health buff
He is the weakest of all the bosses and I know that's because he can regen 3 times but since freezing or blocking him with a Berserker is so effective, giving him a bit more health would be better IMO.

5) Improve mortar attack
It's really easy to dodge, maybe change the huge missiles with something like cluster or micro missiles? Something hard to dodge but not impossible, it can have a pattern so it's learnable and improves the skill barrier.

That's all I have to say, honestly I see potential in it's design and that's why I feel this changes could improve him and hope it helped in something.
If you disagree with me, I want to know why and I'll happy to read your replies, thanks

Patriarch is hard boss for solo&2p&3p but very easy for 5p&6p teams. Our team kills him easily while he is escaping at the first fleeing phase most of the time (especially if we have a sharpsooter with freezing nades).

I suggest to change mechanic as "Flee begin when HP at 35%, ZED summoning begin when HP at 55%." instead of already existing "Flee begin when HP at 35%, ZED summoning begin when HP at 42.5%." at least for suicidal&hoe games.

More importantly, abomination also hard for solo&2p but very very easy for 4p&5p&6p teams. You have a guarantee to finish with armor and no risk.

Obviously matriarch on hard mode (6p) is harder than abomination on hoe mode (6p). Most of hoe players are veteran and when they see the abomination boss, text "ez" to the chat on screen.

 

[Aleflippy]

"Really easy compared to the other bosses"

... It's the one I have the most troubles with, but sure...The "easiest boss".

I do have to say that I agree with @MrtPsr above : it's only truly easy when you got a bigger team. Because then, not only does the Patriarch struggle to pick one specific target, but you can quickly harass him before he goes back to heal. Obviously, it's even easier when you got either a commando or a nuker (sharp/demo) on your team. But playing solo? Man... Patty ruined perfectly good runs quite a few times. Mostly in his critical stage, when he begins shooting while running at you.

Then again, I agree with pretty much everything you propose, mainly for two reasons. The first being that it wouldn't drastically change the Patty fight. He wouldn't become a completely new boss or a blatantly overpowered one. The second (and most obvious) would be to provide a new challenge to the veterans. The ones who accumulated so many Patriarch skulls as trophies they lost count.

The only two elements I wouldn't want in the game are the missiles going through walls (the **** man?) and the Patriarch escapes being made harder to counter (it's actually one of the few truly "strategic" elements of KF2, let's keep it that way). But he could be a bigger threat, yeah.

 

[MrtPsr]

"Really easy compared to the other bosses"

... It's the one I have the most troubles with, but sure...The "easiest boss".

I do have to say that I agree with @MrtPsr above : it's only truly easy when you got a bigger team. Because then, not only does the Patriarch struggle to pick one specific target, but you can quickly harass him before he goes back to heal. Obviously, it's even easier when you got either a commando or a nuker (sharp/demo) on your team. But playing solo? Man... Patty ruined perfectly good runs quite a few times. Mostly in his critical stage, when he begins shooting while running at you.

Then again, I agree with pretty much everything you propose, mainly for two reasons. The first being that it wouldn't drastically change the Patty fight. He wouldn't become a completely new boss or a blatantly overpowered one. The second (and most obvious) would be to provide a new challenge to the veterans. The ones who accumulated so many Patriarch skulls as trophies they lost count.

The only two elements I wouldn't want in the game are the missiles going through walls (the **** man?) and the Patriarch escapes being made harder to counter (it's actually one of the few truly "strategic" elements of KF2, let's keep it that way). But he could be a bigger threat, yeah.

To elaborate a little more, the expression I want to say about Patriarch:

My suggestion for (HEll on Earth) solo/2p/3p: same as before ✓, (hardest boss on solo especially for slow perks)
4p: "Flee begin when HP at 35%, ZED summoning begin when HP at 45%. + %5 more zeds that is summoned"
5p: "Flee begin when HP at 35% with %5 extra sprint speed, ZED summoning begin when HP at 50%. + %10 more zeds that is summoned"
6p: "Flee begin when HP at 35% with %10 extra sprint speed, ZED summoning begin when HP at 55%. + %15 more zeds that is summoned"

To elaborate a little more, the expression I want to say about Abomination:

My suggestion for (HEll on Earth) solo/2p/3p: same as before ✓ (this is already running tank)
4p: "İncrease number of zeds spawned by % 50 including elite crawlers, bloats."
5p: "İncrease number of zeds spawned by % 150 including elite crawlers, bloats."
6p: "İncrease number of zeds spawned by % 200 including elite crawlers, bloats."
In addition to these, new boss attacks should be added like throwing the axes on Suicidal & HEll on Earth.

Otherwise Abomination & Patriarch are a nightmare on solo while thay are defenseless bird on 6P for the experienced players.

 

[OnionBubs]

Hi, I'm kinda new to the game with just 300+ hrs but I feel like the Patriarch is really weak compared to other bosses and I wanted to gave a few suggestions:

So I'm starting this with the question: are you talking from a 6P HoE perspective? Patty is a slow boss that hits hard and forces teams to use cover throughout the whole fight. He's not exactly a tank because he does have weaknesses and can be bursted down if the team knows what they're doing. He dies quickly to coordinated efforts but is more than capable of wiping bad or uncoordinated teams...which I'd say isn't a bad thing, as the boss design rewards good teamwork. I wouldn't say he's quite as good at it as Matriarch is, but that's power creep for you.

Besides, it's nice to have a boss that can be spiked down once in a while without having to whittle down the equivalent of 4 boss health bars. So let's see what you have to offer...

1) Improve missiles attack
When the Patriarch shoots someone with his missiles, he shoots in your direction (even through walls). That could be improved by making him to shoot where you were last seen by him. Which is something a normal person would do irl and would make a lot of sense.

On HoE, his missiles are already capable of one-shotting multiple players who do not take appropriate cover upon hearing the audio cue, which is exactly what they're designed to do. Unless maybe making them slightly faster is an option, I don't know about giving them other buffs.

So upon re-reading this, I can take this one of two ways:
#1 is a suggestion that the Patriarch should be able to track someone running behind walls when he fires. He in fact does, and frequently does shoot where someone is going to be if they're not too far behind cover. I don't know what the threshold is for not shooting altogether, but you can test this on a number of maps by picking a faster class, running behind cover on one side when he starts priming rockets or bullets, and coming out on the other side before he finishes shooting (the trucks and hay bales on Farmhouse are a good tester for this).

#2 is a suggestion that his missiles should go through walls, in which case:
What the actual fresh hell?
The instant-kill missiles on HoE being able to go through walls? Are you serious? So taking cover--the main strategy you're supposed to use against his very deadly distance weaponry--is now something that the boss can hard-counter by randomly picking a target to instantly kill? (Possibly more than one if they're grouped up.)

If #2 is the case, then I seriously want you to think about this suggestion. Like, really think about it. That it would come up in the first place is a bad sign already, but I have hope.

5) Improve mortar attack
It's really easy to dodge, maybe change the huge missiles with something like cluster or micro missiles? Something hard to dodge but not impossible, it can have a pattern so it's learnable and improves the skill barrier.

Are we playing the same game on the same difficulty and maps? Honestly, the mortar barrage is his most frustrating attack to begin with, because on HoE it feels like the game randomly picking someone to screw over.

The mortar attack is situationally dependent. On maps like Farmhouse you can kite Patty indoors around a truck and you'll never see it to begin with. If he does use it but you're playing something like Zerk or Medic (or you have the Medic's speed buffs, I guess) then you could get nicked by it, or you could never get hit because the run speed allows you to scarper from the entire area. If you're a slow class kiting outdoors and he uses it, then it can just randomly kill you even from being untouched on HoE because you got unlucky. Half the time it feels like I don't dodge the mortar, he just misses.

That's exceptionally fun when I'm playing Commando for the extra tracking and trash disposal + free extends off said trash, but then I die instantly from the mortar attack because screw you, that's why.

2) Improve tentacle grapple
Currently it's really short and it's only helped by the fact that is kinda quick. Make it larger just like Matriarch.

The tentacle is there to punish players out of cover (the main strategy against Patty, mind), which is why it's quick rather than long. If you're playing Zerker tank against patty then it's basically free license for everyone to shoot him while you block it. I don't think this would really accomplish anything new, but whatever.

4) Health buff
He is the weakest of all the bosses and I know that's because he can regen 3 times but since freezing or blocking him with a Berserker is so effective, giving him a bit more health would be better IMO.

This sounds like "counter to his counter," which I don't really like on principle since being able to dunk on him fast is one of the few things rewarding a coordinated assault. Maybe a bit extra on his first health bar wouldn't hurt, I guess?

3) Improve escape when he needs to heal
It's really easy to spot him by just throwing an EMP, burning him, posioning him, shoot him with the Hemogobling, etc. I would like to see smokes grenades (like Hans) but just a few or stun the players maybe(?) but I don't know if people would like it.

I think one of the things that might be acceptable for this would be giving his "get off me" melee spin more damage so you can't just slap one Berserker in front of him and guarantee that they'll live without having to at least block that.

 

[Agent Pickles]

I haven't done this in a while so maybe things have changed, but a Demo with upgraded C4 and Seal Squeal can go a long way with the Patriarch in solo or team play. With full health and armor, the demo can take a hit while plopping C4 all over the boss. Then run, heal, and help teammates lower his health. Between the Seal Squeal's delayed explosions and the ability to detonate the C4 immediately after he starts crying out for his babies and he won't get a chance to heal himself.

A special move that disables C4, drops C4 when he goes invisible, allows him to throw it back at teammates after being stuck to him for XX seconds or the C4 explodes when another explosion occurs nearby might even the odds. (again, I haven't used C4 on a boss in a long, long time, so maybe this already exists)

I wouldn't mind seeing his meat shields start showing up as soon as he hits 45-50% health to help cover his escape, as well as him having an ability to just charge his way through players offensively or as part of the escape.

When the Patriarch shoots someone with his missiles, he shoots in your direction (even through walls).

I don't think @Nekronaium is suggesting that the Patriarch should have an ability to shoot through walls. I think he is pointing out that it is unrealistic for the Patriarch to track a player's exact position. He is noticing that if you take cover behind a wall that the Patriarch will shoot directly at you, even though he has no idea if you ran 1 foot into the room or 12 feet in the room. He magically knows where you are, and if the wall is thin enough, his missiles can cause splash damage, because video game physics.

 

[MrtPsr]

"Really easy compared to the other bosses"

... It's the one I have the most troubles with, but sure...The "easiest boss".

I do have to say that I agree with @MrtPsr above : it's only truly easy when you got a bigger team. Because then, not only does the Patriarch struggle to pick one specific target, but you can quickly harass him before he goes back to heal. Obviously, it's even easier when you got either a commando or a nuker (sharp/demo) on your team. But playing solo? Man... Patty ruined perfectly good runs quite a few times. Mostly in his critical stage, when he begins shooting while running at you.

Then again, I agree with pretty much everything you propose, mainly for two reasons. The first being that it wouldn't drastically change the Patty fight. He wouldn't become a completely new boss or a blatantly overpowered one. The second (and most obvious) would be to provide a new challenge to the veterans. The ones who accumulated so many Patriarch skulls as trophies they lost count.

The only two elements I wouldn't want in the game are the missiles going through walls (the **** man?) and the Patriarch escapes being made harder to counter (it's actually one of the few truly "strategic" elements of KF2, let's keep it that way). But he could be a bigger threat, yeah.

In 6p HOE, we have a 90% chance to kill Patriarch before his first heal. We don't need coordinated&good team to do it, this is very easy. He can't escape among 6 players, he stucks (is blocked), so, Patriarch needs more spawn, speed buff and so on. Interestingly, Patriarch and Abomination are hard bosses until you will be 4p team. 5p and 6p multiplayer boss scale should be changed.

In addition to, if these bosses are buffed with more spawns, trash clearer perks will have more important role at boss wave. Otherwise most of the players want to pick big zed killer perks at boss waves. It may increase synergy&perk balances of the game.

Abomination also shouldn't be piece of cake at least in suicidal&hoe. Veteran players get bored and want new difficulty, instead of bringing new difficulty you can regulate all of this.

 

[ChotaH]

Would delete Abomination and keep him for Weekly only as it was meant to be, it is so budget it even hurts, no quality content, cheap slackery.