Suggestion: Panzer III in the first DLC pack

[Fafnir_6]

Hello,

I have enjoyed RO2 tremendously since the DDE beta and I'm looking forward to the release of the first DLC pack containing the Pz III J & T-70. I was reading about the Panzer III J on wikipedia (oh yes, I realize it is a hugely trustworthy site LOL). One thing that caught my eye was the fact that there were 2 versions of the Pz III J, the first with the 50mm KwK38 L/42 and the later version equipped with the more-effective 50mm KwK39 L/60 cannon. The fact thread in the RO2 general discussion lists the Pz III J "first version" as being the one included with the DLC pack. I assume that this indicates the Pz III J variant with the less-effective gun. My suggestion is that when a player levels up as a tank commander in the Pz III J there could be an upgrade (like the drum mag for the PPSH) to the more effective cannon in this tank. Apparently the newer gun could penetrate the front of a T-34 under 500m whereas the earlier gun couldn't. Wiki says over 1000 Pz III J's with the better gun were produced from late 1941 to mid 1942 so they would be available in quantity and in time for the battle. For balance the T-70 could graduate from the early conical turret to the welded one found on later machines. What do you think? Anyway, I look forward to the DLC (there isn't a tentative release date set for that is there?).

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

 

[Jammybee]

Only if the t-70 transforms into a KV-1e.

 

[Fafnir_6]

Haha. That's not really fair . KV-1e should be added at some point though. Along with the Stug III and the Russian TD (SU76?). I'm not sure how we could balance out the KV-1e (maybe a different PzIV variant)

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

 

[Dr.Phibes]

Haha. That's not really fair . KV-1e should be added at some point though. Along with the Stug III and the Russian TD (SU76?). I'm not sure how we could balance out the KV-1e (maybe a different PzIV variant)

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

Well, the revised, final production version of the SU-76 entered service mid 1943, so I don't think any of them made it to Stalingrad in time. StuG III F/8 and a KV-1 variant would make a nice update imho

 

[Listingbadly]

Historically there were T-60s, T-70s and KVs at Stalingrad. There were also T-26s and interstingly M3 Lees ( the coffin for 7 brothers as the Sovs called it)and Stuarts.

In the future of RO2 maybe a tanker could start in the t-60 and upgrade to t-70? All the other options would be interesting.

 

[neonmodder]

Historically there were T-60s, T-70s and KVs at Stalingrad. There were also T-26s and interstingly M3 Lees ( the coffin for 7 brothers as the Sovs called it)and Stuarts.

In the future of RO2 maybe a tanker could start in the t-60 and upgrade to t-70? All the other options would be interesting.

Rather odd the Soviets would refer to the Lee as a Coffin, during the Battle of Stalingrad the Lee was more or less an even match for the Panzer IV and certainly more then a match for the Panzer III, and there were far more Panzer IIIs then long barreled Panzer IVs in service during the Battle of Stalingrad.

 

[FBOTheLiuetenant]

Throw in a few KVs, why the Hell not. Just give the Germans a few captured ones on specific maps. Anyone know if there were BT-7s at Stalingrad, I just think those things are so darn cute!

 

[Listingbadly]

Don't think there were any BT-7s as I haven't seen any listed on the Orders of battle of the unit s there but one might of snuck in.

Weirdly there were probably Italian tanks as the Italian 8th Army was part of the battle (And largely destroyed in it )

Also the Romanian 1st Armoured Div with Renault -35 tanks ( Remember Carpathian Crosses in RO1)

 

[Jammybee]

I'm a bit wary of tanks. TWI's choice of match ups seems a bit off.

PzIV vs T34. P4 has better gun, optics, vision, slightly less armour. P4 wins

PzIIIj vs T-70. PzIIIj has better gun (a loader helps ), optics, vision, slightly less armour. P3 wins

Hanomag vs Universal Clown car. Sdkfz251 has better armour, MG, passenger protection and capacity. The UC might (unlikely) have an ATR. UC does get bonus points for looking awesome. Hanomag wins.

So I hope Soviets like going up against Tanks and APCs with Tankettes and glorified tractors.

 

[theta123]

Rather odd the Soviets would refer to the Lee as a Coffin, during the Battle of Stalingrad the Lee was more or less an even match for the Panzer IV and certainly more then a match for the Panzer III, and there were far more Panzer IIIs then long barreled Panzer IVs in service during the Battle of Stalingrad.

For allied tanks, historians only bring the negative nicknames. The M3 lee was well liked. Its 75mm gun was very powerfull and could easily defeat any german tank then in service. Russian crews also loved the 37mm gun for its Canister shell

 

[Field Marshal Rommel]

The choice of match ups seems a bit off.

Should have been:

T70 vs Pz 38(t) Ausf. G
T34/76 M1941 vs Panzer III Ausf. L
KV1 M1942 vs Panzer IV Ausf. G (80mm, APCR perhaps)
ZiS truck/Lend Lease HT vs Sdkfz 251 Ausf. C

 

[theta123]

Thats not balanced, you put the best german tanks wich where in the fewest numbers against the worst soviet models.

The most common PZIV in stalingrad was the ausf F1....Followed by the Ausf F2 and the Ausf G actually not much appearing in stalingrad itself.
The first Ausf F2's arrived in spring 1942(wich where only a few) and by the time of the invasion of stalingrad, only 143 where in service!
Only at the very end of the battle did a FEW ausf G's arrived

The most common PZIII was the Ausf J and rearmed older PZIII models with the short 5CM gun. Ausf J1's first appeared late spring 1942. With not much avaible,just like the PZIV Ausf F2, by the time of the battle of stalingrad.

The main reason for this, is because these tanks where also hard needed on the North africa front.

Just like the Auf G, the ausf L only appeared in very limited numbers on the last battle. If these are added, then the KV1 model 1942 should also appear, with frontal armor immune to these tanks!

 

[gimpy117]

so Russians get a light tank with a 35mm gun...but Germans get another medium tank with an effective gun?

no thanks. but it would make sense given the current balance of things.

 

[Gevorex]

Actually the T-70 had a 45 mm gun, but only a crew of 2. While the Panzer III had 5 crewmen.

 

[Fafnir_6]

Thats not balanced, you put the best german tanks wich where in the fewest numbers against the worst soviet models.

The most common PZIV in stalingrad was the ausf F1....Followed by the Ausf F2 and the Ausf G actually not much appearing in stalingrad itself.
The first Ausf F2's arrived in spring 1942(wich where only a few) and by the time of the invasion of stalingrad, only 143 where in service!
Only at the very end of the battle did a FEW ausf G's arrived

The most common PZIII was the Ausf J and rearmed older PZIII models with the short 5CM gun. Ausf J1's first appeared late spring 1942. With not much avaible,just like the PZIV Ausf F2, by the time of the battle of stalingrad.

The main reason for this, is because these tanks where also hard needed on the North africa front.

Just like the Auf G, the ausf L only appeared in very limited numbers on the last battle. If these are added, then the KV1 model 1942 should also appear, with frontal armor immune to these tanks!

So both the PzIII Aus J and Aus J1 were present in the battle with the latter in small numbers. Would not the addition of a Pz III J1 unlock at veteran or hero level accurately represent the Panzer III in RO2? I'm assuming they fix the the stats system first, of course. Alternatively, they could limit the proportion of Pz III J1s on any given map.

As another side note, how hard would it be for TWI to make the Pz IV F1? Aside from the different cannon, the differences between it and the Aus G are not very significant. Just model a new gun stick it in the existing Pz IV G hull with a few graphical tweaks and off we go. Variation is the spice of life and is the reason I still play RO1 Arad Real Forests every once in a while.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

 

[Field Marshal Rommel]

So both the PzIII Aus J and Aus J1 were present in the battle with the latter in small numbers.

I don't know where you are getting small numbers from but look here:

Would not the addition of a Pz III J1 unlock at veteran or hero level accurately represent the Panzer III in RO2? I'm assuming they fix the the stats system first, of course. Alternatively, they could limit the proportion of Pz III J1s on any given map. As another side note, how hard would it be for TWI to make the Pz IV F1?

Search is your friend. Look here:



[url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=54456&highlight=tank+unlock[/URL]

 

[bayonet boy]

For allied tanks, historians only bring the negative nicknames. The M3 lee was well liked. Its 75mm gun was very powerfull and could easily defeat any german tank then in service. Russian crews also loved the 37mm gun for its Canister shell

While that's true, it did actually have some huge flaws:

• Its high profile made it an easy target.
• The turret housed the lower callibre 37 mm as apose to the 75mm gun making it less effective against enemy tanks unless in an ambushing role due to a lack of traverse. This also made the tank unable to deploy in a hull down position for added protection.
• The rivvets and joints had a habbit of peppering the crew with shrapnall in non penetrating hits on their tank.
• The tank took extra crew members compared to other soviet medium tanks, which required training and if a hit happened -- more dead bodies than the other soviet tanks.
• The Lee also used gassoline as apose to diesel which a lot of the Soviet tanks used and had a habbit of bursting into flames (This was an issue for allied troops in Africa which is where it gets a bad reputation from too). But the Lee's that were given to the Soviets had diesel engines and did not suffer from this problem at least.

It was very reliable, able to climb steep inclines, had a decent gun for the period and sufficient armor with added firepower from the 37mm gun -- It was as well free afterall too!

I'd say as an armoured vehicle it would have been more effective in an infantry support role than the conventional tank on tank role of other medium tanks.

(but on topic, KVII + Stug Auf F should be the next DLC after the pzr III and the T-70 )

 

[Fafnir_6]

I guess what I am essentially trying to argue is that the Pz III J1 is a viable addition to RO2 along with the Pz III J. It would be HISTORICALLY ACCURATE to have both the J and J1 in game. Whether it comes as an unlock or as a separate type of tank that can be chosen (why would anyone choose the old one then?) I don't really care. I agree that Pz III J (and especially a Pz III J1) in a DLC pack with a T-70 for the Russians is not a fair trade (Germans win big time). Then again, the Germans don't really have a counter to the KV-1 until the tiger comes along (outside of RO2's timeline). So the Russians will get the advantage when that one comes out (I'm sure it will some day). Also, whoever suggested the addition of the Pz 38(t) Aus G, I whole-heartedly support its addition as well (same with the Stug III F).

Cheers,

Fafnir_6