Suggestion for sharpshooter tier changes

[bstm300]

Table A1


Most Figures for Table A1 are Taken from:
http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Killing_Floor/Weapons

Firing time- time between shots.
Notable changes-made the m14 slightly weaker and increased total clips carried, introduced Glock18C, introduced L115A3 sniper rifle.

Table A2


Damage, health, and speed relate to increases in those variables for Zed's while the decreases in bounty relate to decreases in how much money you get back from killing ZED's.

Notable changes-A new nightmare mod is introduced. There is a 15% increase for all variables rounded to the nearest tenth when jumping from suicide to nightmare mode. The maximum perk level will have to be raised to 7 with the necessary changes made to bonuses, discounts, and movement speeds.

Most figures for Table A2 are taken from:
http://kf-wiki.com/wiki/Difficulty

Picture B1


B1: The L115A3 Long Range Sniper Rifle - based on a weapon used by the British Olympic shooting team - weighs 15lbs, fires 8.59mm rounds and has a range of 1,100-1,500 yards.


Let me know if any of my figures are wrong, especially the damage per second. I did some very rough D.P.S. estimates for a few of them. I also didn't know how to calculate D.P.S. for the new sniper.

 

[CandleJack]

A fully-automatic 9mm machine pistol? For Sharpshooter? And less damage than the 9mm pistol which has roughly the same everything?

L115A3 (AWM / AWSM), you've pretty much done what i did with the AS50. Pretty much exactly but with a different gun.

Additional searching of YoYoBatty's "Post all ideas here" thread would have been nice.

 

[Salad Snake]

A G18 would fit Commando better imo. Or even Medic.

 

[bstm300]

A fully-automatic 9mm machine pistol? For Sharpshooter? And less damage than the 9mm pistol which has roughly the same everything?

I had to weaken the damage of the G18c in order to make it's dps reasonable while still still keeping a high rate of fire. It wouldn't make sense to up the damage and lower the firing rate, would it? Then, you would have a super slow-firing G18 which is no fun at all. The key is keeping the D.P.S. reasonable while still making it a fun weapon. Unfortunately, you can't have it be fast-shooting and extremely powerful :*(

I appreciate the input, though. Maybe the G18C would be a weapon better suited for a class like the commando. I also have to apologize for not looking through more posts to find the one Candlejack made about the AS50 sniper. Still, did you actually compute figures for the AS50 and put them into a table?

Lol, nobody thought the 15% increase in movement speed for Zed's in nightmare mode was frightening? Regular movement speed for a flesh-pound could be very similar to the movement speed of a raged FP in beginner mode. OH MY GAWD!!! Ok, I'll admit it-I'm exaggerating just a little bit.

 

[bstm300]

L115A3 (AWM / AWSM), you've pretty much done what i did with the AS50. Pretty much exactly but with a different gun.

Additional searching of YoYoBatty's "Post all ideas here" thread would have been nice.

Ok, I saw four other snipers (AS50, L96 .50 cal, M99, and the NTW-20) mentioned on CandleJack’s post found here: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...highlight=AS50

BOTTOM LINE: The .50 caliber sniper doesn't have a name designation and isn't even worth mentioning. Just for the fun of it, I researched the other snipers Candlejack and other’s mentioned. You’ll find my research below. The bottom line is the sniper I suggest (L115A3), as compared to the ones above (all higher caliber), has significantly lower weight (making the sniper more portable, and it has lighter bullets with less force (making them cheaper while reducing recoil). Thus, these traits make the L115A3 a more ideal candidate for a sharpshooter sniper in KF than a higher caliber sniper rifle because the higher the caliber, the larger and more cumbersome they become.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_International_AWM
The AWM rifle is a variant of the British Accuracy International Arctic Warfare (AW). Compared to the AW, the AWM has a longer bolt to accommodate larger magnum-length cartridges such as the.300 Winchester Magnum and the .338 Lapua Magnum. The AWM (Arctic Warfare Magnum) is a sniper rifle manufactured by Accuracy International. It is also known as the AWSM (Arctic Warfare Super Magnum). The British Armed Forces adopted the AWSM rifle chambered in .338 Lapua Magnum as the L115A1 Long Range Rifle. The AWM was deemed the artic warfare magnum (AWM) by it's manufacturer Accuracy International, not to be confused with it's brother, the L96, which was deemed the Artic Warfare Rifle or AW.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.338_Lapua_Magnum
The .338 Lapua Magnum (8.6x70mm or 8.58x70mm) is a specialized rimless bottlenecked centerfire cartridge developed for military long-range sniper rifles. The Afghanistan War and Iraq War made it a combat-proven round with ready and substantial ammunition availability. The .338 Lapua is a dual-purpose anti-personnel and anti-materiel round; however, its anti-materiel potential is limited, due to the bullet's lower kinetic energy compared with that of the .50 BMG's 35.64-to-55.08-gram (550.0 to 850.0 gr) projectiles

On L115A3 Long-Range Sniper from
http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/sup...pons/1459.aspx and
http://www.mod.uk/defenceinternet/fa...rangerifle.htm

Weight: 15 lb (6.8 KG ) [Lower weight*]
Length: 51” (1,300 mm) [Nearly the same barrel length*]
Caliber/Cartridge: 3.38 Lupa Caliber 8.59 mm [Smaller bullets = less force*]
Effective Range: 1,100 m plus [Less range*]
Feed: 5-Round box

“Designed to achieve a first-round hit at 600 metres and harassing fire out to 1,100 metres”
“The L115A3 Long Range Rifle fires an 8.59mm bullet, heavier than the 7.62mm round of the L96, and less likely to be deflected over extremely long ranges”

More on AS50 from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accurac...national_AS50:
Weight: 27 1b (12.2 kg) (no scope/sight, empty mag)
Length: 53.9”
Cartridge: 12.7 x 99 mm NATO
Caliber/Cartridge: .50 BMG 12.7mm
Rate of Fire: Semi-automatic, estimated at 5 round/1.3 seconds
Effective Range: 1,500 m
Feed: 5 or 10 round detachable box magazine

More on Burret M99 Sniper-Rifle from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_M99
Weight: 25 lbs.
Length: 47 or 50 inches
Caliber/Cartridge: .50 BMG (12.7x99mm NATO) and.416 Barrett
Effective Range: 2,600
Feed: 10-round detachable box magazine

More on the NTW-20 Sniper-Rifle from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denel_NTW-20
Weight: 68 1bs. (31 KG)
Length: 71” (1,795 mm)
Caliber/Cartridge: Couldn’t find caliber/ 20 X 82 mm and 14.5 X 114 mm
Effective Range: 1,300 m for longer bullet and 1,750 for the shorter
Feed: 3-Round box magazine

Modern 20 mm round (NTW-20 Sniper) next to more common high caliber rounds: http://www.vincelewis.net/20mm.html
"Left to right: .223 - .338 Lapua Magnum - .50 cal - and the awesome 20mm"




Conclusion: The AS50 is not the same compared to the L115A3 sniper. Either you didn't do your research, or you're potentially trolling me.

 

[CandleJack]

Ok, I saw four other snipers (AS50, L96 .50 cal, M99, and the NTW-20) mentioned on CandleJack

 

[Salad Snake]

Lol, nobody thought the 15% increase in movement speed for Zed's in nightmare mode was frightening? Regular movement speed for a flesh-pound could be very similar to the movement speed of a raged FP in beginner mode. OH MY GAWD!!! Ok, I'll admit it-I'm exaggerating just a little bit.

While everyone else gets all gun-nerdy, I'll discuss the gameplay reasons why your suggestion is poor. First off, a 15% increase in speed brings gameplay to the point where you literally cannot reload fast enough in many situations. Challenge due to impossibility makes for frustrating gameplay.

Also, at that speed ping and lag compensation becomes more of a factor. Believe it or not, there are players that simply cannot get an under-100 ping from their location in the world, and this would potentially ruin gameplay for them.


Also, Sharpshooter already has one of the largest weapon arrays in the game. Adding more is unnecessary, and the time and memory space would be better spent adding one or two weapons to each perk that has less weapons then Sharp (Medic, Demo, Firebug, Commando). If you're going to make a weapon's suggestion, make it for one of those perks.

 

[CandleJack]

While everyone else gets all gun-nerdy, I'll discuss the gameplay reasons why your suggestion is poor. First off, a 15% increase in speed brings gameplay to the point where you literally cannot reload fast enough in many situations. Challenge due to impossibility makes for frustrating gameplay.

Also, at that speed ping and lag compensation becomes more of a factor. Believe it or not, there are players that simply cannot get an under-100 ping from their location in the world, and this would potentially ruin gameplay for them.


Also, Sharpshooter already has one of the largest weapon arrays in the game. Adding more is unnecessary, and the time and memory space would be better spent adding one or two weapons to each perk that has less weapons then Sharp (Medic, Demo, Firebug, Commando). If you're going to make a weapon's suggestion, make it for one of those perks.

You hit the nail on the head there mate

If i was to see a 15% speed increase on the Beta servers (where they test all the new changes) i would not be able to hold my own at all.

And, like you said, Sharpie has the most weapons. We need to get the Mk23 and M7A3 made official. Perhaps even a M202 for sh!ts and giggles.

 

[bstm300]

You hit the nail on the head there mate

If i was to see a 15% speed increase on the Beta servers (where they test all the new changes) i would not be able to hold my own at all.

And, like you said, Sharpie has the most weapons. We need to get the Mk23 and M7A3 made official. Perhaps even a M202 for sh!ts and giggles.

Umm, I did say that the GLock 18 might be a better weapon for the the Commando. The same stats that I used could be used as a template for that. Also, just because one ZED variables of my nightmare mode, "movement speed," doesn't make sense, doesn't mean the damage and health going up doesn't either. Also,what standard are you applying to decide on whether or not one class or another has too many weapons? Wasn't the firebug (1 class weapon until the UZi) unbalanced not too long ago compared to other classes like the commando (3 class weapons) and the sharpshooter (4)? It all seems pretty relative from my point of view. None of you seem to be understanding the larger point. I'm going to have to ask you read through some of the older topics before criticizing me or bringing up suggestions. Like this one: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=47703&page=2. In it, I discuss the need to change the tier system to allow more weapons to be added. Once tier 5 weapons are beta-tested, then the developers can move towards creating the nightmare mode which I talked about. The end goal is not disrupting the balance between current perk bonuses and perceived difficulty of the current modes, possibly making programming all of it easier. In other words, if tier 5 weapon damage ratios aren't significantly higher than their tier 4 counter-parts, adding another difficulty mode would force Tripwire to re-balance all the weapons stats and perk bonuses. This happens because, taking current perk bonuses into account, tier 1 and tier 2 weapons become 10-15% weaker against nightmare mode enemies. By becoming weaker, I mean the time it takes to kill an enemy with each weapon goes up. So, to compensate, you'd have to up the damage of tier 4 weapons (and the lower tiers) or add a 5th tier like I suggest.

One more thing. If the G18c does become a commando weapon, that makes the commando even in terms of class weapons with the sharpshooter, 4-4, if we aren't counting the 9mm pistol.

 

[HaTeMe]

What, a machine pistol for sharpshooter?

Somebody's missing the entire point of this perk.

 

[Salad Snake]

Also,what standard are you applying to decide on whether or not one class or another has too many weapons? Wasn't the firebug (1 class weapon until the UZi) unbalanced not too long ago compared to other classes like the commando (3 class weapons) and the sharpshooter (4)? It all seems pretty relative from my point of view

I'm using the standard called common sense. In a class-based game you don't give one class all the weapons and toys while having the other classes suffer from a slim choice of weapons, that just screams favoritism. We need to balance out the number of weapons as it is.

In it, I discuss the need to change the tier system to allow more weapons to be added. Once tier 5 weapons are beta-tested, then the developers can move towards creating the nightmare mode which I talked about. The end goal is not disrupting the balance between current perk bonuses and perceived difficulty of the current modes, possibly making programming all of it easier. In other words, if tier 5 weapon damage ratios aren't significantly higher than their tier 4 counter-parts, adding another difficulty mode would force Tripwire to re-balance all the weapons stats and perk bonuses.

This sounds like it's more a problem with nightmare mode then no? Going so far as to add tier-5 weapons just so nightmare mode would be balanced seems a**-backwards, like buffing all the other weapons to match the OP Crossbow would have been. Not to mention the issue of power creep....

One more thing. If the G18c does become a commando weapon, that makes the commando even in terms of class weapons with the sharpshooter, 4-4, if we aren't counting the 9mm pistol.

Which still leaves Medic, Firebug, and Demo with the short end of the stick when it comes to weapon variety....Sharpshooter has enough weapons already, we don't want to further his reputation for being the "favorite" class.

 

[EonSeig]

Want variety for all perks?

Commando: HK21E and Stun Grenades

Medic: MAC11 or the M1A3 that Jack and that other dude are working on.

Firebug: Butane Blowtorch

Demolitions: The RPG-76 Komar or the AA12 with airburst grenade rounds.

Support: Slugs or a revolver shotgun like the МЦ 255.

 

[bstm300]

We need to balance out the number of weapons as it is.

This sounds like it's more a problem with nightmare mode then no? Going so far as to add tier-5 weapons just so nightmare mode would be balanced seems a**-backwards, like buffing all the other weapons to match the OP Crossbow would have been. Not to mention the issue of power creep....

Which still leaves Medic, Firebug, and Demo with the short end of the stick when it comes to weapon variety....Sharpshooter has enough weapons already, we don't want to further his reputation for being the "favorite" class.

Ok, I'm going to agree with you but only because you're being reasonable. Still, let's get some more weapons in the game, sheesh. Isn't it about time the commando, medic, firebug, and demoman got new weapons? Listen, I have an idea here. God help me if this has already been suggested. Let's take all of the aggregates of best weapons suggestions, consolidate them, AND FOR GOD SAKES, VOTE ON THEM!!!! Let's vote on them in the actual game, too. Polls could go up on the actual killing floor menu or in the game lobbies. What do you think?

Also, whatever happened to the sterling and mp5A5 that we voted on back in June? Was Tripwire just too busy with Red Orchestra 2 to put them in? I have the link below. Did they get shelved temporarily or indefinitely? God, I want them to finish it, so they can get to working on KF2 with the Unreal 3 engine

By C_Gibby 06/05/2010 on the new sub-machine guns (sterling and MP5A5) to be developed and added into the game:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=43305&highlight=tiers

 

[CandleJack]

Umm, I did say that the GLock 18 might be a better weapon for the the Commando. The same stats that I used could be used as a template for that. Also, just because one ZED variables of my nightmare mode, "movement speed," doesn't make sense, doesn't mean the damage and health going up doesn't either. Also,what standard are you applying to decide on whether or not one class or another has too many weapons? Wasn't the firebug (1 class weapon until the UZi) unbalanced not too long ago compared to other classes like the commando (3 class weapons) and the sharpshooter (4)? It all seems pretty relative from my point of view. None of you seem to be understanding the larger point. I'm going to have to ask you read through some of the older topics before criticizing me or bringing up suggestions. Like this one: [url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=47703&page=2[/URL]. In it, I discuss the need to change the tier system to allow more weapons to be added. Once tier 5 weapons are beta-tested, then the developers can move towards creating the nightmare mode which I talked about. The end goal is not disrupting the balance between current perk bonuses and perceived difficulty of the current modes, possibly making programming all of it easier. In other words, if tier 5 weapon damage ratios aren't significantly higher than their tier 4 counter-parts, adding another difficulty mode would force Tripwire to re-balance all the weapons stats and perk bonuses. This happens because, taking current perk bonuses into account, tier 1 and tier 2 weapons become 10-15% weaker against nightmare mode enemies. By becoming weaker, I mean the time it takes to kill an enemy with each weapon goes up. So, to compensate, you'd have to up the damage of tier 4 weapons (and the lower tiers) or add a 5th tier like I suggest.

One more thing. If the G18c does become a commando weapon, that makes the commando even in terms of class weapons with the sharpshooter, 4-4, if we aren't counting the 9mm pistol.

Just so you know, there is already a new difficulty. Hell on Earth.


Also, it's Mac-10, which however is a nomenclature as it's officially the M10. Not the Uzi. Sorry about that mate

The Firebug wasn't unbalanced in the sense of the word, it was "underpowered" to use the more commonly used word. The fact that it couldn't stand a chance with perked weapons against scrakes and fleshpounds. Now it's slightly "overpowered" in the sense it can effectively combat everything. I hold that the M10 was added to fill in the 4 slots that Firebug had free with a perked weapon.

Also, we're currently at a top of Tier3 weapons (SCAR, M14, M32, AA12). We'd have to make Tier4 to get Tier5, am i right? And if what we have is Tier3 then Tier5 would make KF laughably easy.

And we must include the 9mm as the 1st weapon of Sharpshooter. Since it was added to the perk it's the cheapest and generally most effective weapon they have. It's super-effective against hordes of low-level specimens.

The G18c isn't exactly an appropriate weapon for Commando and would fit in better with Gunslinger or Medic as a weapon; based on Commando's pretty much exclusive use off assault and battle rifles. Going from the Tier3 battle rifle, Tier1&2 assault rifles to an assault pistol isn't exactly the most logic conclusion.

I must say that adding even more powerful weapons when our current ones are so powerful is a mistake in reasoning. Rather than more powerful weapons, i would suggest weapons of equal or lesser power as sidegrades to the existing weapon that we have. Like a Bolt Action Rifle (SMLE) to complement the M14 and Xbow or a G36C to complement the Bullpup.

I suggest the G36C not because of cowadooty, but because of my research saying that British police use it. Therefore it would fit in, and being the same calibre as the Bullpup (L22A1) it would not be overpowered.

 

[Salad Snake]

I must say that adding even more powerful weapons when our current ones are so powerful is a mistake in reasoning. Rather than more powerful weapons, i would suggest weapons of equal or lesser power as sidegrades to the existing weapon that we have. Like a Bolt Action Rifle (SMLE) to complement the M14 and Xbow or a G36C to complement the Bullpup.

I suggest the G36C not because of cowadooty, but because of my research saying that British police use it. Therefore it would fit in, and being the same calibre as the Bullpup (L22A1) it would not be overpowered.

Exactly. Not every weapon needs to be on a different tier. I was pointing to the G18 being a tier1 sidegrade though, however I suppose even that is a stretch. It would definitely fit as Medic weapon though, perhaps with some medicinal alt-fire function? I'm thinking something that combos in tandem with the MP7 darts, like something that gives you an easier time hitting with them or makes it more potent.

 

[CandleJack]

Exactly. Not every weapon needs to be on a different tier. I was pointing to the G18 being a tier1 sidegrade though, however I suppose even that is a stretch. It would definitely fit as Medic weapon though, perhaps with some medicinal alt-fire function? I'm thinking something that combos in tandem with the MP7 darts, like something that gives you an easier time hitting with them or makes it more potent.

Perhaps a G18c with armour-piercing healing darts, for when you need to punch through specimens to the squad member in a swarm.

 

[Salad Snake]

Perhaps a G18c with armour-piercing healing darts, for when you need to punch through specimens to the squad member in a swarm.

That's a good option. My personal idea is a marker that makes healing darts "home in" on targets. So tag a Zerker with the G18 dart before they run into a crowd, then enjoy a little margin of error with your MP7 darts for a bit.

Of course, the in-game fiction wouldn't include the homing effect, it would just explain that the G18 shoots a bright patch of cloth or something noticeable that helps a person stay visible in a rain of blood and guts. Sorta one of those in-game explanations that use a plausible explanation for an implausible effect (like "leadership skill" increasing damage in RPG's).

 

[bstm300]

Also, we're currently at a top of Tier3 weapons (SCAR, M14, M32, AA12). We'd have to make Tier4 to get Tier5, am i right? And if what we have is Tier3 then Tier5 would make KF laughably easy. Playing with tier 4 weapons on beginner mode and normal mode would make KF laughably easy, yes, but there are options like going to a server higher difficulty; the admin could also have the option of excluding higher levels 4+ from normal or beginner servers. Also, with the proposed changes to the health and damage of ZED's in nightmare mode, you really think that nightmare mode would be easy, even with the tier 4 weapons-(.338CaliberSniper and Machine Gun)?

And we must include the 9mm as the 1st weapon of Sharpshooter. Since it was added to the perk it's the cheapest and generally most effective weapon they have. It's super-effective against hordes of low-level specimens.

You're really confusing me on the tiers then. How are the tiers organized for a sharpshooter then? Do you include the 9mm and the handgun in tier 1, the lever action in tier 2, and the x-bow and m14 in tier3?

Also, it goes without saying that KF's beginner and normal mode servers would be laughably easy with tier 4 weapons (machine gun and .338 caliber British sniper), but players can always go to servers with nightmare mode. Alternatively, admins could restrict higher level players from coming into the normal and beginner servers. Lastly, do you really think nightmare mode would be easy considering the damage and health ZED changes I suggest, even with tier 4 weapons?

The G18c isn't exactly an appropriate weapon for Commando and would fit in better with Gunslinger or Medic as a weapon; based on Commando's pretty much exclusive use off assault and battle rifles. Going from the Tier3 battle rifle, Tier1&2 assault rifles to an assault pistol isn't exactly the most logic conclusion.

Also, what I meant to say was that the G18 could have been a commando tier 1 replacement for the pistol, just like it was suggested in this post:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=40472&highlight=incendiary+ammo. Don't forget that Killing Floor is a fictional world, so I don't think you can say that going from tier 3 battle rifles and tier 1 & 2 assault rifles to a G18 isn't logical.

I must say that adding even more powerful weapons when our current ones are so powerful is a mistake in reasoning. Rather than more powerful weapons, i would suggest weapons of equal or lesser power as sidegrades to the existing weapon that we have. Like a Bolt Action Rifle (SMLE) to complement the M14 and Xbow or a G36C to complement the Bullpup.

The reason I suggested a new difficulty mode and new weapons is to keep the game from going stale for the many veterans, like myself, who have moved on to other games or just don't find KF as fun as it used to be anymore. Like I said before and I'll say it again, not adding a fourth tier of weapons yet making a new difficulty mode will force tripwire to readjust all damage ratios for weapons. Why not add a fourth tier and a new difficulty mode, which gives the game more variety and keep it fun for vets. You can only add so many weapons to the current tiers before they just become redundant and unnecessary.

I suggest the G36C not because of cowadooty, but because of my research saying that British police use it. Therefore it would fit in, and being the same calibre as the Bullpup (L22A1) it would not be overpowered.

Ok, following your logic, the medic receives the G18C. Second of all, the commando receives the G36C as an alternate tier 2 besides the Ak. Who would receive the sterling and mp5A5 that were voted on and approved by in June? What about the firebug flare-gun idea that's been discussed so many times in different postings? Or, What's happening with the revolver? Wasn't that suggested for the support specialist and sharpshooter?

 

[CandleJack]

You're really confusing me on the tiers then. How are the tiers organized for a sharpshooter then? Do you include the 9mm and the handgun in tier 1, the lever action in tier 2, and the x-bow and m14 in tier3?

Also, it goes without saying that KF's beginner and normal mode servers would be laughably easy with tier 4 weapons (machine gun and .338 caliber British sniper), but players can always go to servers with nightmare mode. Alternatively, admins could restrict higher level players from coming into the normal and beginner servers. Lastly, do you really think nightmare mode would be easy considering the damage and health ZED changes I suggest, even with tier 4 weapons?



Also, what I meant to say was that the G18 could have been a commando tier 1 replacement for the pistol, just like it was suggested in this post:
[url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=40472&highlight=incendiary+ammo[/URL]. Don't forget that Killing Floor is a fictional world, so I don't think you can say that going from tier 3 battle rifles and tier 1 & 2 assault rifles to a G18 isn't logical.



The reason I suggested a new difficulty mode and new weapons is to keep the game from going stale for the many veterans, like myself, who have moved on to other games or just don't find KF as fun as it used to be anymore. Like I said before and I'll say it again, not adding a fourth tier of weapons yet making a new difficulty mode will force tripwire to readjust all damage ratios for weapons. Why not add a fourth tier and a new difficulty mode, which gives the game more variety and keep it fun for vets. You can only add so many weapons to the current tiers before they just become redundant and unnecessary.



Ok, following your logic, the medic receives the G18C. Second of all, the commando receives the G36C as an alternate tier 2 besides the Ak. Who would receive the sterling and mp5A5 that were voted on and approved by in June? What about the firebug flare-gun idea that's been discussed so many times in different postings? Or, What's happening with the revolver? Wasn't that suggested for the support specialist and sharpshooter?

So... why did you ignore what i said about Hell On Earth? Forget your Nightmare difficulty, the beta already has a new difficulty. TWI are just balancing and bug-fixing before they release it.

The Handcannon, 9mm and LAR are all Tier 1. The Xbow is Tier 2, the M14 is Tier 3. This is how it is. You can ask other forum members to verify this if you want.

Yes, i consider that Nightmare (Hell on Earth) would indeed be laughably easy. Suicidal was a breeze with the weapons we have now, if you had a team that wasn't comatose, retarded or ramboing. There cannot be a jump big enough to make it a challenge with Tier4-equivilent weapons.

Actually, yes i can say it's not logical; based on the fact my logic follows the theme of the perk. An assault pistol does not follow from assault and battle rifles.

I would say adding more powerful weapons is not the answer. A harder difficulty, yes, because there would be a challenge, which modern FPS games lack. There would be no need to re-adjust the damage or numbers on any weapons unless you want the lack of challenge to carry on to the new difficulty.

The Medic would get the G18c, if that is the assault pistol that was chosen, though i'd prefer a Skorpion or similar weapon, because the Medic would be better for personal defence weapons.

The G36C would fit in as either a Tier1.5 or a Tier1 weapon. It would have similar damage to the Bullpup though perhaps with a red dot sight for quick target acquisition.

And since when were the Sterling and MP5 approved? This is news to me considering such an event would have TWI making an announcement in big colourful lettering. And i'd move the Sterling and MP5 to Medic as well, with different darts for different purposes.

The revolver is a Tier 3 weapon for Gunslinger, when it is given a serious look-in.

The flare gun is a good idea, and when a final incarnation of the idea is decided upon, then i'll comment on it.

 

[bstm300]

So... why did you ignore what i said about Hell On Earth? Forget your Nightmare difficulty, the beta already has a new difficulty. TWI are just balancing and bug-fixing before they release it.

The Handcannon, 9mm and LAR are all Tier 1. The Xbow is Tier 2, the M14 is Tier 3. This is how it is. You can ask other forum members to verify this if you want.

I thought hell on earth was a joke about how life on earth is really dismal. I'm not kidding either. Anyways, I should have known better than to post without searching for it in the forums. My bad.

The Medic would get the G18c, if that is the assault pistol that was chosen, though i'd prefer a Skorpion or similar weapon, because the Medic would be better for personal defence weapons.

The G36C would fit in as either a Tier1.5 or a Tier1 weapon. It would have similar damage to the Bullpup though perhaps with a red dot sight for quick target acquisition.

The scorpion would be a great choice for the medic because it is much more unique than the G18C. In my opinion, the G18c would like look too much like the 9mm. On the subject of the tier position for the G36C, it wouldn't make sense to have it as a tier 1 as it would be made redundant alongside the bull-pup. It would have a greater relative worth to players in 1.5 tier since it's damage would be higher.

And since when were the Sterling and MP5 approved? This is news to me considering such an event would have TWI making an announcement in big colourful lettering. And i'd move the Sterling and MP5 to Medic as well, with different darts for different purposes.

The revolver is a Tier 3 weapon for Gunslinger, when it is given a serious look-in.

The flare gun is a good idea, and when a final incarnation of the idea is decided upon, then i'll comment on it.

The June post by C_Gibby on the SMG vote can be found here:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?p=584661#post584661.

C_Gibby explained the nature of the vote as:

Option #1: PP-19 - "Bizon"

Option #2: Walther SMG - "Hampton"

Option #3: UMP.45 - "UMP"

Option #4: Sterling Submachine Gun - "Sten Gun"

Option #5: Mp5a4 - "H&K MP5"

It's up to you to vote for the 3 weapons that you'd like!

Only 3 out of 5 weapons will be made and released. The tiers that each weapon will be assigned to will be decided on KFWDT forums.

Voting closes 0:01 AM Tuesday!

I am sad that TWI forums didnt give me enough time to sort out the poll... Is it possible that I could get a hand?

I guess I'll just keep it on a tally chart instead...

Some people that are in KFWDT but not TWI forums are voting through me. I will cast my votes at the end. This is the total votes so far:
Bizon: 9
Hampton: 5 (I can feel it coming!!!)
UMP45: 12
Sten Gun: 11 (Can we beat UMP???)
MP5: 16

Just keep on voting, guys! Don't stop till the voting closes!
And for god's sake, we're not replacing weapons! We're adding THREE!

The results of the vote were:

MP5A5 and STERLING are the winners...

Voting closed!

Thanks for voting!

(there has been a complication lately, and the UMP will not be made due to the overflow of OTHER medic guns. Sorry. No point in turning KF into another copy of Mw2)