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Suggestion for PTRD

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Teufel Hund

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 31, 2006
261
21
0
I find that Russian accounts from The Great Patriotic War are often unreliable. Not to say that some of them are not true, but often there is so much communist propagranda thrown in that it's very hard to know how accurate they really are. For example in the above account where an "untrained radioman or political officer" takes out four tanks... :rolleyes:

I find that very hard to believe, an untrained person would probably break their shoulder firing a PTRD.:eek:

The other factor is that the Russians still to this day consider much about WW2 to be classified.

I have a friend who's girlfriend is Russian. I'll talk to him and she if she can help with this at all.
 

Teufel Hund

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 31, 2006
261
21
0
A fact people seem to miss, which I already stated in another thread (I don't exactly recall which one), is that 30% of German armour was disabled* by AT-rifles. Something I read in several books from the Russian point of view.

*disabled= Not destroyed per se but made unusable.
and how did they define German Armour?

Did they includ half-tracks and armored cars?

I've heard that quote of 30% several times before, but it was in reference to AT-Guns, not AT-Rifles.
 

Rameusb5

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
871
1
0
Rant about this all you want. TWI made the decision to up their effectiveness because of the issues I mentioned in my first post in this thread.

You can whine and cry and yell about it all you want. There's NO way TWI is going to change it so the weapon is totally unusable in the game.


And for those of you that say that the Pfaust is underpowered: You ****. That's all I can say. It's the ONLY weapon in the game that I can reliably kill tanks with one shot. Not even the IS-2's main gun can do this. So if you aren't getting kills, it's not because the weapon is underpowered. It's becuase you don't know what you are doing. And lets not forget that we're using a Pfaust 60 on maps where only the 30 should be available. Should we have a massive thread complaining about that next?
 

Mormegil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
4,178
574
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Nargothrond
I find that Russian accounts from The Great Patriotic War are often unreliable. Not to say that some of them are not true, but often there is so much communist propagranda thrown in that it's very hard to know how accurate they really are.
Oh come one. You guys can't ask me for an account of PTRDs disabling late war tanks, and when I come up with one, saying you don't believe it.

With that argument, I can just say that PTRDs not instantly blowing up Tigers frontally is merely unbelievable German propoganda. And that would be silly.
 

popbob

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 12, 2006
97
0
0
38
NYC
Rant about this all you want. TWI made the decision to up their effectiveness because of the issues I mentioned in my first post in this thread.

You can whine and cry and yell about it all you want. There's NO way TWI is going to change it so the weapon is totally unusable in the game.


And for those of you that say that the Pfaust is underpowered: You ****. That's all I can say. It's the ONLY weapon in the game that I can reliably kill tanks with one shot. Not even the IS-2's main gun can do this. So if you aren't getting kills, it's not because the weapon is underpowered. It's becuase you don't know what you are doing. And lets not forget that we're using a Pfaust 60 on maps where only the 30 should be available. Should we have a massive thread complaining about that next?
What? I can easily take a tiger or panther down in one shot in an IS2; Not to mention that it's usually a frontal shot for me. But the same can happen to my tank from a panther or tiger, so it all balances out.
 

Teufel Hund

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 31, 2006
261
21
0
Oh come one. You guys can't ask me for an account of PTRDs disabling late war tanks, and when I come up with one, saying you don't believe it.

With that argument, I can just say that PTRDs not instantly blowing up Tigers frontally is merely unbelievable German propaganda. And that would be silly.
I'm just saying I don't believe that one report. It certainly sounds like pure communist propaganda to me. The poor untrained peasant manages to gloriously take out 4 of the invading fascist tanks with a mere rifle in a matter of minutes... :rolleyes:

Not to mention that it doesn't even say what the tanks were...
 

Sichartshofen

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
1,410
99
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I disagree. Here's why, straight out of the PTRD manual
http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=280&Itemid=123


Here's a couple of accounts on PTRDs being useful (someone asked for an account)

From http://www.sudden-strike.ru/history/detail.php?ID=2754&print=Y
August 24 1942, Stalingrad (consider early or late war? Dunno tank type unfortunately)
Four tanks down by PTRD used by untrained soldier (radioman or political officer)

"here Yevtifeyev took aim, went
down cock. Shot occurred, but front tank did not stop. For
the second time took aim. Shot burst out, tank began to rattle,
smoke released, and then it stopped. - it lined... it lined... -
soldiers joyfully addressed... Still they gave two shots, and
two additional tanks lined. On the fifth shot the oversight
left. Did not fall Yevtifeyev. It hurried. By the
sixth cartridge Of evtifeyev nailed to the earth the fourth tank."

Tiger vulnerable
"During January 1943,
attempting to close the breach of Soviet troops at the Volkhov Front,
Germans threw in the battle the newest tanks T -.VI"Tigr". These
machines then there were the schitannye units. They underwent
troop tests, so that it would be possible to consider experience of
their operating and combat use in the construction of series machine.
And here with this "tiger" entered the single combat the
antitank riflemen of Volkhov Front. By well-aimed shots they
derived from the system all inspection systems of tank. Crew
stupefied by this ran, after throwing almost proper machine.
Without desiring to leave it in the hands of the Red Army,
Germans opened fire on their machine and undertook even several
attacks. But our repulsed tank and drove away to show it
specialists. After several months to the Kursk battle all
vulnerable places of "tigers" were known."


By the way, I can't find any post by a "wonderboy" supporting hitting the optics should blow up tanks.
Come back when you've had them properly translated.
 
F

Field Marshal Rommel

Guest
That account is impossible! At its best penetration the PTRD can only penetrate 35mm of armor (at 100m) It was useless against the frontal armor of most German tanks and all German tanks in game. The Tiger I has only 1 weak spot its rear armor plate which can not even be penetrated by a Soviet 76.2mm F34 and you tell me a 14.5mm PTRD round can penetrate 80mm of high quality armor when the great and mighty T-34/76 could not. If this were the case T-34s would be armed with PTRD's rather than a 76.2mm. Obviously this is ethier Soviet propaganda or misinformation which was rampant on the Soviet side. For example the Soviets always confused the Ferdinand/Elefant tank with the the Stug III G and on numerous accounts they called the Stug an Elefant and claimed to have killed it with weapons that were incapable of penetrating its armor. You can read more about this on battlefield. ru. The only tanks the PTRD could theoretically kill/disable or penetrate were the Pz III/StugIII from the sides (without side skirts) PzIV sides/rear (without side skirts with side skirts only the rear) and light vehicles. As for the German captured PTRD's the Germans as well as the British stopped imploying the use of ATR's early in the war because their ATR's (the German ones) had very similar performace to the PTRD were ineffective against the 45mm of armor of the T-34 (interesting that it penetrates the PzIV H's 80mm of frontal armor in game) and heavier tanks such as the KV series which were somewhat compareable in armor to the Tiger I. The best Soviet antitank weapons were other tanks!!
 
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Mormegil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
4,178
574
0
Nargothrond
Rommel, you're telling me that the Tiger's optics (read "inspection system") are invulnerable to PTRD fire?

If you believe that, then there really is no point in arguing about it.


Sorry about the bad translation - blame Babelfish. There's one guy I barely know who speaks Russian. It might be akward, but I'll see if if can give me a better translation - I don't even know if he reads cyrillic. Or Hund, can you ask your friend's girlfriend to translate the original Russian link I put up?
http://www.sudden-strike.ru/history/...D=2754&print=Y



And I'm with Popbob. The IS-2 CAN reliabily take out any tank frontally with a single shot. You just need to know where to aim.
 

Maus

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 8, 2006
294
0
0
www.norml.org
Rant about this all you want. TWI made the decision to up their effectiveness because of the issues I mentioned in my first post in this thread.

You can whine and cry and yell about it all you want. There's NO way TWI is going to change it so the weapon is totally unusable in the game.


And for those of you that say that the Pfaust is underpowered: You ****. That's all I can say. It's the ONLY weapon in the game that I can reliably kill tanks with one shot. Not even the IS-2's main gun can do this. So if you aren't getting kills, it's not because the weapon is underpowered. It's becuase you don't know what you are doing. And lets not forget that we're using a Pfaust 60 on maps where only the 30 should be available. Should we have a massive thread complaining about that next?
This post is laughable. Very laughable. Come back when you have something intelligent to say...

Mormegil said:
Oh come one. You guys can't ask me for an account of PTRDs disabling late war tanks, and when I come up with one, saying you don't believe it.

With that argument, I can just say that PTRDs not instantly blowing up Tigers frontally is merely unbelievable German propoganda. And that would be silly.
Taking into account the russians had a horrible habit of making things seem like they were 'THIS' glorius or 'THIS' powerful or 'THIS' extroardinary when they actually only did that through creative writing and exagerations/annotations to the original account, Teufel has a good point.

First hand accounts i have found to be quite acceptable, but the articles you find in the soviet newspaper or on combat reports to higher ups or something similiar, are not.
 

Crim

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 6, 2006
297
0
0
I just hopped on a server with Vader and Sockmop to do a quick test.

http://files.filefront.com/PTRDwmv/;6183066;;/fileinfo.html

The PTRD is not overpowered in the slightest. It is obvious that the armored skirts used on German tanks during WWII had absolutely no effect on the effectiveness of anti-tank rifle rounds. Before this test was conducted, I fired at the frontal superstructure of the Panzer IV H, which is comprised of an 80mm face-hardened plate. Penetrations were achieved without effort.

Absolutely nothing has to be done to the PTRD, because it has been realistically implemented in Red Orchestra: Ostfront.

If you think that I am being serious, please download the video. Thank you.

Edit for the post below me: See, the point here is that in real life, the plates were VERY effective against PTRD rounds. In RO, they're not. Do you understand how this might be a problem concerning the PTRD? By the way, nice edit.
 
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BeserkWraithlor

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 3, 2006
461
0
0
Arizona
Woah! The Armored plates don't even protect against PTRD rounds! I guess I overestimated the strength of the Panzer's new protection! The plates are useless. Before, a PTRD can destroy a Panzer in 1 shot to the sides, not its 2. ROFL! I still have hope in Arad vs Panzers! I AM SAVED!

Thanks for the video.

Edit:However, you were labbing this with your friends. In a normal match, a tank is not going to be that easy. Tanks will be angled, there will be infantry guarding tanks, and sometimes tanks will be too far away for you to hit the weak point. Also, if they are team tanking, they will spot and kill you. In close range, the driver will pop out and shoot you while your reloading. Also, tanks will also be guarded by other ones.

But I do agree, PTRD does too much damage to tanks, and they need to be toned down, so that they will only disable/penetrate them instead of killing the tank itself. (See my suggestions on the last post on page 6).
 
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Sichartshofen

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
1,410
99
0
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Woah! The Armored plates don't even protect against PTRD rounds! I guess I overestimated the strength of the Panzer's new protection! The plates are useless. Before, a PTRD can destroy a Panzer in 1 shot to the sides, not its 2. ROFL!

Thanks for the video.
Now you see what we've been going on about for 8 pages.
 

Crim

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 6, 2006
297
0
0
However, you were labbing this with your friends. In a normal match, a tank is not going to be that easy. Tanks will be angled, there will be infantry guarding tanks, and sometimes tanks will be too far away for you to hit the weak point. Also, if they are team tanking, they will spot and kill you. In close range, the driver will pop out and shoot you while your reloading. Also, tanks will also be guarded by other ones.
That does not have any bearing on the ability of the PTRD to penetrate armor and whether or not its ability to do so is overpowered.

I have demonstrated that the PTRD is, in fact, overpowered. Please provide evidence that the PTRD was able to disable a Panzer IV H outfitted with skirts with two shots to the side at any range from the side.

If you are unable to do so, then do not start saying my test can't be counted because I did not compensate for every variable possible.

I did that to test one thing, and one thing only. In conclusion, I have found that the PTRD is able to penetrate the very part of the only tank in Red Orchestra that was engineered to prevent it from doing so.

fake edit: This was written before his third edit, when I wasn't sure of his stance on the PTRD.

real edit: Hurrrrr, I just realized he was the thread starter, and was against a tank-killing PTRD all along. Silly me.
 

BeserkWraithlor

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 3, 2006
461
0
0
Arizona
I was very scared to hear about the Weak Panzer (only tank I could kill in Arad as Russian AT Class) being armored up with Plates designed to Protect against PTRD rounds, then I am shocked and disappointed that they provided Very little protection (if not, none) against PTRD rounds.

I guess I can go back to RO and start sniping Panzers all over again like before.
 

Quietus

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 25, 2005
1,945
0
0
California
I'm curious how much armor a PTRD could penetrate at point blank range. Maybe 50mm? Bullets can eventually penetrate something if the exact same spot is repeatedly hit over and over but PTRD rounds 99% of the time don't hit the exact same spot (unless the tanker is totally clueless).
 

Teufel Hund

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 31, 2006
261
21
0
Sorry about the bad translation - blame Babelfish. There's one guy I barely know who speaks Russian. It might be akward, but I'll see if if can give me a better translation - I don't even know if he reads cyrillic. Or Hund, can you ask your friend's girlfriend to translate the original Russian link I put up?
I Already emailed it to him, and he's sending it to her (she's actually in school in Russia right now). I'll post the translation as soon as I get it, probably going to take a few days. I just want the PTRD (and everything else in the game) to be modeled as realistically as possible.

As for the PTRD damaging the optics on a Tiger, like I said before I have no doubt that it's possible. Hitting them on the other hand is a different matter.
Here's a good pic in which you can clearly see the gunner's optics. The two black spots (they look bigger than they really are because of the shadows) to the right of the barrel are the holes in the mantlet for the optics (Zeiss Turmzielfernr
 
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F

Field Marshal Rommel

Guest
Dont forget that the PzIV H is also easily penetrated in the front underneth the viewing slit which is armored with 80mm of armor and in a tank range map Ive blown up IS-2's with it frontally.At point blank range the PTRD should penetrated around 39mm-40mm of armor.
As for the Tiger's weak spot I was NOT talking about the optics I was talking about armor.
 
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