• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/
  • Weve updated the Tripwire Privacy Notice under our Policies to be clearer about our use of customer information to come in line with the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) rules that come into force today (25th May 2018). The following are highlights of our changes:


    We've incorporated the relevant concepts from the GDPR including joining the EU and Swiss Privacy Shield framework. We've added explanations for why and how Tripwire processes customer data and the types of data that we process, as well as information about your data protection rights.



    For more information about our privacy practices, please review the new Privacy Policy found here: https://tripwireinteractive.com/#/privacy-notice

Suggestion for PTRD

Status
Not open for further replies.

Rameusb5

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
871
1
0
Realism... yeah, right.

If they modify the PTRD so it penetrates exactly like it did historically, and not add in the tank weak points, the game will be EXACTLY as unrealistic as it is now, except the German players will gain an advantage.


Give me a break... :rolleyes:



I always love it when people use the "Realism" argument and manage to completely forget everything that happens to go against their agenda.

TWI knows what they are doing. They are interested in making a game that people will actually play. They aren't going to pander to player wishes for l33tnes, no matter how thinly disguised as "realism."


Do us all a favor and go join the real army. They've got all the realism you can handle.
 

kuebel

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 18, 2006
70
0
0
I would. 5 out of 6 or so of the people who want to tone down the PTRD in this thread have German derived nicknames:

Teufel Hund
Maus
Kuebel
Sichartshofen
Wolfstuka

Coincidence?

Accept it people have biases. I'll admit, I play Russian most of the time (check the Sig), which may be a reason I'd like to see the PTRD "toned down" when the tanks are also "toned down" with their impenetrable optics, invincible personnel armor, and adamantium suspension.

I only said that it's silly to give the AT guy binocs you idiot.
I wonder though if the AT rifles could actually manage to blow a tank up by hitting an HE shell, since most of its power would be already lost when it penetrates the armor I guess.
 
F

Field Marshal Rommel

Guest
Rameusb5 said:
modify the PTRD so it penetrates exactly like it did historically, and not add in the tank weak points, the game will be EXACTLY as unrealistic as it is now, except the German players will gain an advantage.
Weak spots??!
These so called "weak spots" are behind armor (Im not talking about optics). Hitting them would be impossible unless the PTRD could penetrate the tank's armor then penetrate the armored ammo store (engine, ect.). So no these "weak spots" are non-existant to a PTRD soldier (the current weak spots like the ammo store ect.)! As for this German advantage this would have been Historically accuarate because all AT-rifles even by the begining of WW2 were obsolete which was why Germans and the British quicky got rid of their antiquated ATRs.

The PTRD is extremely overpowered in fact no German tank in game should ever be penetrated from the front by it at any range!
Having a slighly more powerful verison of the At-rifle but still keeping the realistic ranges at which it can penetrate tanks and the areas at which it could would be the best approach to keeping the PTRD useful but still 90% realistic.
My suggestion:
1. Let the PTRD cause greater damage per bullet but............
2. Get rid of these magical frontal kills (again no German tank in game can be penetrated frontally by the PTRD)
3. Get rid of 1 shot kills (armor prevents "weak spot" kills)
4. Get rid of long range kills (seeing as the PTRD was useless at 500 meters at which it had only about 20mm of penetration)
5. The Tiger I and Panther G should never be damaged by ATR fire!(except tracks, optics ect.)
6. Panzer IV F1/F2 should only be killed/penetrated from the sides/rear
7. Panzer IIIL/StugIIIF/8 should only be killed/penetrated from the sides
8. Panzer IV H should only be killed from the rear!!!!! Side skirts makes the sides invulnerable to ATR Fire!!

I have an odd feeling most who complain about the PTRD tend to play German...
I have an odd feeling that everyone who wants the PTRD as is tends to play on the Soviet side.
lol but seriously play RO-Berezina and go German tanker every 2 secs I get killed frontally by a PTRD in one shot or the tank in front of me does. When I play as a Soviet I can kill tanks(PzIII's and PzIV's) in 1 shot easily from about 750 meters!!!!! On Ro-Arad I can even kill Tigers in a couple shots!!

A small observation: Have you ever noticed that the German Halftrack (15mm) takes more shots to kill with a PTRD than a more heavily armored tank such as a Pz III L (front armor 50mm+20mm) which takes only 1 frontal shot to kill!??!
 
Last edited:

BeserkWraithlor

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 3, 2006
461
0
0
Arizona
You want to make the PTRD useless in Arad? Thats what you want? You can kill a Tiger in a COUPLE of shots? It takes like 6 shots in the rear, and like 10 to the sides. I already said this several times already. If you nerf PTRD to the point where it won't be able to kill tanks, then nobody will pick that class, and there is no joy in playing it if you can't kill anything.

A small observation: Have you ever noticed that the German Halftrack (15mm) takes more shots to kill with a PTRD than a more heavily armored tank such as a Pz III L (front armor 50mm+20mm) which takes only 1 frontal shot to kill!??!
I made a thread about that. The Half Track has no ammo storage, and if you shoot the front, the Half Track will be useless, but it won't blow up. Shoot a car, it won't explode, it will just break and stop working. I have no idea how a Half Track will EXPLODE if you just shoot it, seeing that it carries no explosives.
 
F

Field Marshal Rommel

Guest
BeserkWraithlor said:
You want to make the PTRD useless in Arad? Thats what you want? You can kill a Tiger in a COUPLE of shots? It takes like 6 shots in the rear, and like 10 to the sides.
Yes, it should never kill a Tiger I or a Panther G period!!!!
The PzIV H should only be penetrated in the rear armor and nowhere else because of its side skirts and thick 80mm frontal armor.
On Ro-arad Ive killed Tigers in 2 or 3 shots. As far as making the PTRD useless on arad well the PTRD was never an effective Anti tank weapon esepecially late in the war. It was an antiquated piece of old machinery that was only used because the Soviet union lacked a more effective alternative. The way it is portayed on RO makes this PTRD seem more effective than an PF or an 85mm shell AP round.

BeserkWraithlor said:
I made a thread about that. The Half Track has no ammo storage, and if you shoot the front, the Half Track will be useless, but it won't blow up. Shoot a car, it won't explode, it will just break and stop working. I have no idea how a Half Track will EXPLODE if you just shoot it, seeing that it carries no explosives.
The PzIII L/PzIVf1/f2/StugIIIF/8 Should also NOT explode since it is nearly impossible to penetrate the armor then the armored ammo store inside the tank.
Ro models vehicles to explode when they are very damaged irregaurdless of of your arguement I was meerly pointing out it takes more Ptrd shots for this to happen than it would when firing on a more heavily armored tank such as the PzIII L.
 
Last edited:

ROMMEL34

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 21, 2006
184
0
0
Pittsburgh
:mad: This is the THIRD (3) time I am posting this and I will continue posting this on every PTRD thread that I encounter :

The PTRD is a single shot anti-tank rifle introduced shortly before the German invasion of the Soviet Union. Due to the rapid increase of tank armor the PTRD was soon ineffective as an anti-tank weapon although it remained in use until 1945 for use against soft skin targets and light armored vehicles. It was useless in a frontal assault, and the weapon was too cumbersome to consider stalking for a rear engine shot. Instead, against tanks it was used to target soft points such as visor screens or periscopes, blinding the crew. The armour-piercing bullet had a muzzle velocity of 1012 m/s.

PTRD Penetration:
100m 300m 500m
35mm 27mm 22mm
Other sources say 40mm at 100 meters with different ammo.

Armor from German tanks in game:

Tiger I Ausf E armor:
Hull Front : 100mm @ 66
 

ROMMEL34

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 21, 2006
184
0
0
Pittsburgh
You want to make the PTRD useless in Arad? Thats what you want? You can kill a Tiger in a COUPLE of shots? It takes like 6 shots in the rear, and like 10 to the sides.
1. Tiger armor is invulnerable to the PTRD in real life so in game it should not even take 1000 shots.
2. Last time I checked the Tiger in game takes two (2) shots to the rear not six.
3. Use a tank (T-3ass) to kill other tanks not a piece of **** obsolete PTRD:) .
 
Last edited:
F

Field Marshal Rommel

Guest
Rommel34 said:
Use a tank (T-34) to kill other tanks not a piece of **** obsolete PTRD
lol
Yes, the primary and most effective Soviet antitank weapon was hordes upon hordes of Soviet tanks not PTRDs!

um Id take that Panzer IV H petition off your sig
 

Rameusb5

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
871
1
0
Weak spots??!
These so called "weak spots" are behind armor (Im not talking about optics).
That's funny, because I was talking about optics. If they make tank optics damagable, then I would FULLY support reducing the PTRD's penetration. Until then, no thanks.

In addition, they need to look at the PTRD's ability to inflict damage on the 251, which is ALSO seriously fubar.



Mormegil, please add two players with the name "Rommel" in them to your "Nerf the PTRD" list. :rolleyes:
 

ROMMEL34

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 21, 2006
184
0
0
Pittsburgh
Engine or gas tank?
rameusb5 said:
Mormegil, please add two players with the name "Rommel" in them to your "Nerf the PTRD" list
More like "fix the PTRD so it acts realistically" list
 
Last edited:
F

Field Marshal Rommel

Guest
Rameusb5 said:
Mormegil, please add two players with the name "Rommel" in them to your "Nerf the PTRD" list.
"Nerf the PTRD" That would imply that I want to make it weaker than it was! I just want a Realistic PTRD thats all (after all I was under the impression that Red Orchestra is a "realistic" game). Just look at all the real accounts of the PTRD use and penetration data it was not an effective antitank weapon!
If it was as good as it is portrayed then the Germans would have never replaced their ATRs which had pretty similar performace to the PTRD.

Notice how the PTRD has massive muzzle flash.
Yes that was another draw back that ancient gun had.
 
Last edited:

Rameusb5

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
871
1
0
There is nothing in the half track that is going to get you a magical 1 hit kill.
You mean besides the driver?

Also, hitting (and penetrating) the engine block might be considered a "kill."


I am fully aware that the reality of armored combat in WWII where a "kill" doesn't always equal an explosion. More often, the crew inside the vehicles were killed while the tank itself appeared to be fine (other than a hole in the armor where the penetration occured). This would be especially true for small caliber solid shot weapons (like the PTRD).
 

Maus

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 8, 2006
294
0
0
www.norml.org
Too much text, about to leave, bragh.


Anyway, here's what people are missing.


the PTRD is overpowered, but only to the point where it's highly succesful vs. early war GERMAN tanks. It can penetrate 50mm of armour at 200+ meters, which is a travesty.

But as of now, it still scratches the armour of later war tanks, i have never been in a situation where it penetrated a panther or tiger.


Now, what does that mean exactly? It means it is OVERLY powerful by a LOT, to early war German tanks. And Early war german tanks show up in early war maps, where the germans dont HAVE the panzerfaust.


So, in early war maps the soviets have an extremely overpowered infantry AT weapon, while the germans dont have one at all...

Think about it.
 

Afterburner

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2006
184
0
0
Those are all things tankers WANT AS WELL for realistic tank combat...

But that's a ways off, but the PTRD can be fixed now. Fix, it, now.

period.
You fix it now, you break the game.

Period.

Fix it at the same time as optics and other damageable elements are added in.
 

Mormegil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
4,178
574
0
Nargothrond
I only said that it's silly to give the AT guy binocs you idiot.

Hey, no need for name calling you moron:D


Anyways, I stand corrected. I just lumped you in with the group, since you seemed to want to pull tools from the PTRD guys.

Personally, I like the idea of the binocs, because PTRD teams usually included a loader/spotter along with the gunner. That's not currently modelled (and who wants to be a loader/spotter anyway?). I actually suggested the binocs in the forums (two weeks late it turns out, it was already in the internal betas by that time).


About starting a cook off, it would necessarly have to hit an HE round. What if the round hits the propellant, which I believe is bigger than the HE charge.
 

Mormegil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
4,178
574
0
Nargothrond
I have an odd feeling that everyone who wants the PTRD as is tends to play on the Soviet side.
I know. I acknowledged that in my post - mentioning I play Soviet, and am probably biased, just like the other camp.

A small observation: Have you ever noticed that the German Halftrack (15mm) takes more shots to kill with a PTRD than a more heavily armored tank such as a Pz III L (front armor 50mm+20mm) which takes only 1 frontal shot to kill!??!

As annoying as that is, it makes sense since the HT doesn't carry tank rounds that can cook off. I would think that you should be able to easily crack the engine block with 1 shot or at least seriously screw up the transmission, electrical, or cooling system (unless HT used air cooled engines).



Perhaps someone should make a "Realism PTRD" mutator. While they're at it, make it so you can't carry 3 Fausts to balance things out a bit.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.