SU-76 and Marder 3?
- Thread starter gimpy117
- Start date
You are wrong , Marder III was too self-propeled artillery as the early Stug models , later stugs models are considered to be more assaultguns than just propelled artillery due to his role .
What this game neds for Stalingrad are the PII and T-26 tanks with some T-60 , BA-64 and some PSW 222 and 231 8 rad ... I want to see some of those vehicles ingame !
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I don't think Marder IIIs were in Stalingrad. I'm not sure.
I would prefer a StugIII over a Marder any day.
I would prefer a StugIII over a Marder any day.
Though I am not familiar with the Marder series, I know that prior to Stalingrad there were no Soviet assault guns in existence.
Some PZ III were captured AFTER the battle for Stalingrad and some of these were converted into turretless assault guns with 76mm cannons, and are sometimes referred to as "SU-76i". While very few were ever converted, the idea was well recieved and served as a basis for an entirely Soviet design, the SU-76 (which got a further modernisational revision before actually being deployed, which is why it is more commonly known as SU-76m).
In short, the SU-76m did not see action until late 1943. It wasn't even around for Kursk, so it is pretty much a late war vehicle. Stalingrad really is quite a dull front when it comes to vehicles. None of the truly iconic and interesting vehicles have left the design stage at this point in the war, ie no Tigers, no IS2, no Soviet assault guns.
Some PZ III were captured AFTER the battle for Stalingrad and some of these were converted into turretless assault guns with 76mm cannons, and are sometimes referred to as "SU-76i". While very few were ever converted, the idea was well recieved and served as a basis for an entirely Soviet design, the SU-76 (which got a further modernisational revision before actually being deployed, which is why it is more commonly known as SU-76m).
In short, the SU-76m did not see action until late 1943. It wasn't even around for Kursk, so it is pretty much a late war vehicle. Stalingrad really is quite a dull front when it comes to vehicles. None of the truly iconic and interesting vehicles have left the design stage at this point in the war, ie no Tigers, no IS2, no Soviet assault guns.
As a crazy idea, what about the Stug 3 and KV1? The long 75mm Stug was relatively active by then, and has thicker frontal armour than the earlier Pz4 G models as I recall. And the KV1 is a tough nut to crack, but still easily doable with the long German 75mm. And the loss of speed over the T34 would stop it being too fancy.
Really I wonder if it would be fruitful for them to try and add different versions of tanks. Was the interior of the Pz4 F1 really that hugely different to the F2 and G versions? Was the (hull part at least) of the T34-85 really that different to the 76.2mm version? (Yes I realise the 85mm version comes after Stalingrad.. but for extra content to add it makes sense to expand outside of Stalingrad).
Really I wonder if it would be fruitful for them to try and add different versions of tanks. Was the interior of the Pz4 F1 really that hugely different to the F2 and G versions? Was the (hull part at least) of the T34-85 really that different to the 76.2mm version? (Yes I realise the 85mm version comes after Stalingrad.. but for extra content to add it makes sense to expand outside of Stalingrad).
The F1 has a very different gun from the F2, but turret should be largely the same. The G is virtually the same as the F2, except it lacks viewports on the turret sides for the gunner and loader.
The T34 with the 85mm gun really shouldn't be hitting the frontlines until early 1944, so I doubt it will ever be within the scope of the RO2 main game. A small number of T34s were fitted with 57mm anti-tank guns, but I have no idea if they were to be found anywhere near Stalingrad during the time period represented in the game. This was a stop-gap modification outside of typical Soviet doctrine at the time, which was that of tanks being made for infantry support, not anti-tank action. Soviet tank destroyers didn't actually come into play until very late 1943, so for most of the war Soviet anti-tank work was up to towed anti-tank artillery.
The T34 with the 85mm gun really shouldn't be hitting the frontlines until early 1944, so I doubt it will ever be within the scope of the RO2 main game. A small number of T34s were fitted with 57mm anti-tank guns, but I have no idea if they were to be found anywhere near Stalingrad during the time period represented in the game. This was a stop-gap modification outside of typical Soviet doctrine at the time, which was that of tanks being made for infantry support, not anti-tank action. Soviet tank destroyers didn't actually come into play until very late 1943, so for most of the war Soviet anti-tank work was up to towed anti-tank artillery.
Stug III Ausf F anyday of the week - most prominent tank after the PzIII for the Germans and in my opinion a great addition.
If anything the Russians should get the T-26 light tank as it was produced on-mass in the factorys in Stalingrad.
Sturm.
If anything the Russians should get the T-26 light tank as it was produced on-mass in the factorys in Stalingrad.
Sturm.
The T26 was actually a pre-war tank, production ended in 1941 and most were lost in Barbarossa and in the winter war. Some were still around in late 1942 and probably fought on the outskirts of Stalingrad, for the lack of T34s.
T34s were still being produced in Stalingrad during the early half of the battle, and production supposedly only ended when the factory was overrun. Though probably anecdotal and sensationalised, it was said that factory workers for a short time rode those newly built T34 into battle, often without weapon sights.
T34s were still being produced in Stalingrad during the early half of the battle, and production supposedly only ended when the factory was overrun. Though probably anecdotal and sensationalised, it was said that factory workers for a short time rode those newly built T34 into battle, often without weapon sights.
T-26 vs PzIII.
AT guns are missing so far... there were more of those than tanks, on both sides.
AT guns are missing so far... there were more of those than tanks, on both sides.
Marder III was initially produced with the captured 7.62cm PaK 36 (r). The 75mm PaK 40 version didn't appear till battle was almost over. Su-76 wasn't available during the Stalingrad time period.
A look at the TO&E of the tank corps in the battle show almost no T-26. There were however a lot of T-60 tanks.
Yes thats the tank I meant, couldnt remember whether it was the T-26 or T-60, but yes there were more of the afore mentioned tank than there was T-34's that was for sure. Im sure everyones seen a Stalingrad documentary and seen the abundance of Stug III's floating around.
Sturm.
Stug III E/F's were the most common infantry support assault vehicles and are basically needed for combined arms operations in RO2. The game REALLY needs them for a Stalingrad setting -- They're iconic! Stugs's were everywhere.
The Stug IIIs had a low profile, moved fast had decent frontal armor but lacked a traversable turret. They could keep low ambush and move out. They had decent AT capabilites and they were perfect for infantry support.
A KVII would actually be a good russian counter part.
There's pros and cons to both tanks. KVII's were used in Stalingrad, particularily in the defence / counter attacks and fierce fights that happened around the factories.
KVII's were huge and lumbering, extreemly hard to hide with a massive profile. They had 152mm howitzers though, with bunker busting ammunition. They also carried AT and HE rounds, but their primary role was to clear fortifications and support infantry assaults.
The Sturm-Infanteriegesch
The Stug IIIs had a low profile, moved fast had decent frontal armor but lacked a traversable turret. They could keep low ambush and move out. They had decent AT capabilites and they were perfect for infantry support.
A KVII would actually be a good russian counter part.
There's pros and cons to both tanks. KVII's were used in Stalingrad, particularily in the defence / counter attacks and fierce fights that happened around the factories.
KVII's were huge and lumbering, extreemly hard to hide with a massive profile. They had 152mm howitzers though, with bunker busting ammunition. They also carried AT and HE rounds, but their primary role was to clear fortifications and support infantry assaults.
The Sturm-Infanteriegesch