Strong Nerf for Medic

[ELBuBe]

When I started reading this I didn't like the idea of nerfing my favorite class and also one that is one of the best regarding strategy in the game, but the arguments are very logical. It would include a reduction in syringe reload and reducing that damage from med weapons so that he's still just a medic and not some sort of survivor that heals more.

 

[OnionBubs]

The answer here is better team play, not give the healing class broken survivability.

Speaking from the heart:
There are plenty of times when I see people complain about things like "but I take too much damage as Berserker" or "but I take too much damage as Medic" and those same people inevitably insist that the only means of restoring the cosmic scale to its former glory is inevitably to give those classes back their sponginess, rather than the obvious solution staring deep into their soul.

It takes all of my willpower to not just respond with "shoot things in the head and get hit less." Because at its core, that's really the problem, and nobody wants to hear "git gud" as a solution (somewhat justifiably). As though one has to devote their life to this game and swear off touching grass forevermore to be decent at clicking things in the head.

 

[Jiboia_Jin]

Medic is still a top pick and still has significantly more survivability than basically every other perk. As long as you can avoid getting sandwiched between multiple big zeds or eating several fleshpound crits in 2 seconds you can't be killed. Healthrower is still the meta HEALING weapon, being able to also kill trash as well as the flamethrower was just ridiculous.

I think you are missing an important aspect of this whole discussion. Medics survivability should come directly from their teammates, the nature of perk interactions is supposed to be symbiotic. Sharpshooter relies on commando to protect them from trash, commando relies on sharpshooter to protect them from big zeds, medic relies on EVERYONE to keep them safe. A team that can't fulfill their roles and protect their medic deserves to fail. The answer here is better team play, not give the healing class broken survivability.

Now I know that this game has suffered much power creep throughout the years and the defined roles have been blurred quite a bit but the principles still remain and it's what makes this game so blissful to play at higher levels. This is what I believe the "thousands of hours vets" are hoping to preserve.

Honestly yes the medic is still useable and a great class. It was over power I admit it.

 

[Jiboia_Jin]

Are you denying the notion that someone with more experience, in general, everything else being equal, is in a better position to make a better judgment on balance from the game appeal perspective? You are basically trying to deny the value of expertise here. In everything. Like, a chess granmaster, according to you, has no ground to claim that he has a better understanding of the chess game than a chess novice.



Good job hiding behind the "rest of us". How about that -- your opinion on medic balance is just your poorly informed opinion and doesn't speak for the rest of us. How's that?



You'll definitely see less selfish and combat medics in games and THAT'S A GOOD THING. Works as intended. It's not medic's job to have or use better weapons. You want better DPS? Play DPS perks. Medics are supposed to be played to heal and buff the team, that's their main purpose, everything else is an afterthought.

I’d say it’ll be the same either way, people are people and will play how they want to. That being said I admit the medic was OP, and is still the best class with gunslinger.

 

[Jiboia_Jin]

I’ll still stand firm on Berserker needing a buff. Maybe not to what it was but it does need some sort of damage resistance or at the least a faster rechargeable syringe. With a medic, using dreadnaught sure it can survive, but it’s a hassle. Without a medic it’s just not even viable on HoE. I’d say give Skirmisher 3 hp every 2 seconds to split the difference, and add another static 5 percent damage residence at least. It sucks having to take the Hemoclobber just to be of some use. You can argue range Zerk but it’s not really that good. Sure Skirmisher helps a lot when using guns, but with slow reloads, low ammo and very few choices, with grenades that on later around a against large targets aren’t that effective, it’s just ok at best.

 

[Aleflippy]

I’ll still stand firm on Berserker needing a buff. Maybe not to what it was but it does need some sort of damage resistance or at the least a faster rechargeable syringe. With a medic, using dreadnaught sure it can survive, but it’s a hassle. Without a medic it’s just not even viable on HoE. I’d say give Skirmisher 3 hp every 2 seconds to split the difference, and add another static 5 percent damage residence at least. It sucks having to take the Hemoclobber just to be of some use. You can argue range Zerk but it’s not really that good. Sure Skirmisher helps a lot when using guns, but with slow reloads, low ammo and very few choices, with grenades that on later around a against large targets aren’t that effective, it’s just ok at best.

In addition to everything I already said to defend the Zerk, I'd add a little something : it's perfectly normal to feel weaker as a melee-centric perk when the game is all about guns (or at least "ranged" weapons, to put it broadly). When nearly every other perk can keep a safe distance against the zeds (even shorter-ranged ones like the firebug and support), of course the Zerk will feel a tad weaker... Because you're always gambling your health away, even if you don't care about your killstreak. We already discussed at length that the Zerk does have a few tricks up its sleeve to not just die on the stop as he tries to bash a zed's skull. But it's clearly not a beginner-friendly perk, and you're going to tank some serious damage. The trick is to know WHEN to strike and when to fallback. And yes...Sometimes you might have to fallback earlier than expected.

It's no wonder why the perk got a ranged option from the get-go, in the shape of the VLAD : going full-melee brings you at a disadvantage. Having a little something to rely on when things go south is almost absolutely needed unless you got a very good team, or unless you're being very cautious.
I do believe that the perk is fine as it is, I think you got that now. But I also understand that you might find it pretty hard to play in its current state. It's probably my lest played perk, and I cannot hide that it's precisely for that reason : I tend to misjudge my health pool and go for a play that is just too much for me. But I've also survived ordeals that would have smashed any other perks...
The bottom line of all that is pretty much that the zerk ain't really a PICK class, but a tank one. Making it tankier still? Fine. But then it should have another little nerf somewhere else (being less good at CC, doing less overall damage, having heavier weapons...) to fully commit to that tanky playstyle. Otherwise, it's only real downside would be to have limited range... Which can already be mitigated with the VLAD, Piranha, Frost Fang and Eviscerator.

 

[Jiboia_Jin]

In addition to everything I already said to defend the Zerk, I'd add a little something : it's perfectly normal to feel weaker as a melee-centric perk when the game is all about guns (or at least "ranged" weapons, to put it broadly). When nearly every other perk can keep a safe distance against the zeds (even shorter-ranged ones like the firebug and support), of course the Zerk will feel a tad weaker... Because you're always gambling your health away, even if you don't care about your killstreak. We already discussed at length that the Zerk does have a few tricks up its sleeve to not just die on the stop as he tries to bash a zed's skull. But it's clearly not a beginner-friendly perk, and you're going to tank some serious damage. The trick is to know WHEN to strike and when to fallback. And yes...Sometimes you might have to fallback earlier than expected.

It's no wonder why the perk got a ranged option from the get-go, in the shape of the VLAD : going full-melee brings you at a disadvantage. Having a little something to rely on when things go south is almost absolutely needed unless you got a very good team, or unless you're being very cautious.
I do believe that the perk is fine as it is, I think you got that now. But I also understand that you might find it pretty hard to play in its current state. It's probably my lest played perk, and I cannot hide that it's precisely for that reason : I tend to misjudge my health pool and go for a play that is just too much for me. But I've also survived ordeals that would have smashed any other perks...
The bottom line of all that is pretty much that the zerk ain't really a PICK class, but a tank one. Making it tankier still? Fine. But then it should have another little nerf somewhere else (being less good at CC, doing less overall damage, having heavier weapons...) to fully commit to that tanky playstyle. Otherwise, it's only real downside would be to have limited range... Which can already be mitigated with the VLAD, Piranha, Frost Fang and Eviscerator.

Well it’s a melee class, whether or not this is a range based game doesn’t really have anything to do with that class. That being said it should be THE tankiest class in the game. The 1 hp per second with skirmisher isn’t worth anything at this point, and with only 100 hp you can’t remain in the fight for more than 5 seconds if you’re lucky. Having to constantly run away and heal 20 health from a syringe that has a slow recharge rate just makes the class feel useless. And sure its survivability is good but what does that mean when the round never ends? Due to the fact that the Zerk WILL take probably 10 times the amount of damage trying to get kills as any other class says that it should have a much larger damage resistance. The survivalist is just as good if not better due to it having healing grenades and zed splosion allowing it to stun zeds frequently in front of it. Paired with its global damage resistance and 15 percent weapon damage on top of the 75 percent damage increase from its perk with 25 percent movement speed and 20 percent attack speed, its arguably just as good if not better than the Zerk when it comes to melee. That’s just not even cool. When you take into account that you can’t use butcher really or massacre, the Survivalist does more overall damage consistently than the Zerk, which Smash is only useful if you’re able to take some damage. Parry is still good but it’s not always active meaning it’s not always useful and you’re just a walking target at that point. Other classes don’t take as much damage but they don’t need to especially being able to get kills on the run and start running before the zeds get to them. Doing that with a berserker isn’t viable because then you’re just playing cat and mouse and what is the point of that? You said it yourself you don’t play Berserker which is a very fun class, and I’m going to assume it’s because you know how awful it is now. A melee class shouldn’t have to rely on picking any ranged options due to it being a melee class, also the ranged options it does have have such limited ammo pools. Its not okay the way it is, sure a nerf from its past stats wasn’t a bad idea, but it was needed too hard to the point where the best class next to Medic is now arguably the worst and most useless class to the team besides maybe sacrificing itself so everyone else can live through a flesh pound skrake invasion. Which at that point who even would want to play it? That’s no fun and ultimately the point of the game is to have fun. Even on suicidal it’s a hassle. Dreadnaught does help and the Hemoclobber, but even still you have to back off consistently just to stay alive while being forced to use dreadnaught because of not you will just die unless you spend the whole game running around, which at that point I’d rather just delete the game entirely.

 

[Jiboia_Jin]

Well it’s a melee class, whether or not this is a range based game doesn’t really have anything to do with that class. That being said it should be THE tankiest class in the game. The 1 hp per second with skirmisher isn’t worth anything at this point, and with only 100 hp you can’t remain in the fight for more than 5 seconds if you’re lucky. Having to constantly run away and heal 20 health from a syringe that has a slow recharge rate just makes the class feel useless. And sure its survivability is good but what does that mean when the round never ends? Due to the fact that the Zerk WILL take probably 10 times the amount of damage trying to get kills as any other class says that it should have a much larger damage resistance. The survivalist is just as good if not better due to it having healing grenades and zed splosion allowing it to stun zeds frequently in front of it. Paired with its global damage resistance and 15 percent weapon damage on top of the 75 percent damage increase from its perk with 25 percent movement speed and 20 percent attack speed, its arguably just as good if not better than the Zerk when it comes to melee. That’s just not even cool. When you take into account that you can’t use butcher really or massacre, the Survivalist does more overall damage consistently than the Zerk, which Smash is only useful if you’re able to take some damage. Parry is still good but it’s not always active meaning it’s not always useful and you’re just a walking target at that point. Other classes don’t take as much damage but they don’t need to especially being able to get kills on the run and start running before the zeds get to them. Doing that with a berserker isn’t viable because then you’re just playing cat and mouse and what is the point of that? You said it yourself you don’t play Berserker which is a very fun class, and I’m going to assume it’s because you know how awful it is now. A melee class shouldn’t have to rely on picking any ranged options due to it being a melee class, also the ranged options it does have have such limited ammo pools. Its not okay the way it is, sure a nerf from its past stats wasn’t a bad idea, but it was needed too hard to the point where the best class next to Medic is now arguably the worst and most useless class to the team besides maybe sacrificing itself so everyone else can live through a flesh pound skrake invasion. Which at that point who even would want to play it? That’s no fun and ultimately the point of the game is to have fun. Even on suicidal it’s a hassle. Dreadnaught does help and the Hemoclobber, but even still you have to back off consistently just to stay alive while being forced to use dreadnaught because of not you will just die unless you spend the whole game running around, which at that point I’d rather just delete the game entirely.

And to really argue any classes like Firebug or Demolition not being able to take damage is just kind of ridiculous becuase of how much damage and destruction they can easily cause. I don’t even really have to try when I’m using those classes because they decimate everything.