Why not implement make it for the mg to consume stamina when hipfiring, it would be more realistically accurate.
Stop the incredibly easy and unbelievable hipfiring MGs!!!
- Thread starter =GG= Mr Moe
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It wont resolve the problem.
Low stamina only unallows you to run. Can you fire when you run ? No.
You'll be still able to walk and firing people around you easily.
Yes but in classic it also increases swaying of the weapon making it uncontrolable, so it would be a solution.
But if we make the MG more like in red 1 there wouldn't be any use for hipfiring it because, while you would put the mg in the hipfire position you will get shot. Maybe it will require some different moving animation or something to implement the feature right.
There is no sway in hipfire.
This should be the role of MG hipfire: a last-ditch defense for a machine gunner when they are cornered or surrounded, or a careful, deliberate tool for use in close-quarters, say when advancing through a trench.
I'm all for a system similar to RO1's, minus the absurd recoil and lengthly deploy time. As long as the MGer can't instantly stop sprinting and get into a firing position and start circle-strafing back and forth, I'm happy.
Oh, there will always be someone strong enough to pick the thing up. See the story of Mitchell Paige, USMC, on Guadalcanal. I'm not against standing/walking MG hipfire with short bursts. I'm against jogging, circle-strafing, fully automatic MG hipfire that is the default mode of MG transportation when jogging.
Currently, MG hipfire lacks any sort of 'desperation' whatsoever. Apartments is full of MGers leading the room-to-room combat, sprinting down a hallway, instantly entering hipfire mode, holding down the trigger, and strafing madly whenever they encounter enemies. Because the weapon does not collide with enemies, there's no way to get inside the four-foot reach of the machine gun like you would be able to in real life. And it somehow takes more time for a normal infantryman to raise his weapon to his shoulder than it does for a machine gunner to go from a sprint to all-out spray and pray.
I don't know about you, but in reality, if I was carrying a machine gun indoors and heard enemy voices in the next room, I'd back away, put down the MG, draw my sidearm, and let my ammo handlers toss a grenade in. Getting that four-foot machine gun through the average door and trying to spray down the room would be the height of idiocy and the last thing that would occur to me. In-game, it's the first thing that occurs to a player.
And um, when did I suggest that close combat is a cup of tea and a foot soak? A story comes to mind of a Marine on Peleliu getting surprised in his foxhole by a Japanese infiltrator. Both dropped their bayonets in the scuffle, and the Marine killed his adversary by shoving his middle finger into his enemy's eye socket and brain. According to an observer, the Japanese took quite some time to die, and the yells were bloodcurdling. I have no bubble that needs bursting. Don't lecture me.
This should be the role of MG hipfire: a last-ditch defense for a machine gunner when they are cornered or surrounded, or a careful, deliberate tool for use in close-quarters, say when advancing through a trench.
I'm all for a system similar to RO1's, minus the absurd recoil and lengthly deploy time. As long as the MGer can't instantly stop sprinting and get into a firing position and start circle-strafing back and forth, I'm happy.
Oh, there will always be someone strong enough to pick the thing up. See the story of Mitchell Paige, USMC, on Guadalcanal. I'm not against standing/walking MG hipfire with short bursts. I'm against jogging, circle-strafing, fully automatic MG hipfire that is the default mode of MG transportation when jogging.
Currently, MG hipfire lacks any sort of 'desperation' whatsoever. Apartments is full of MGers leading the room-to-room combat, sprinting down a hallway, instantly entering hipfire mode, holding down the trigger, and strafing madly whenever they encounter enemies. Because the weapon does not collide with enemies, there's no way to get inside the four-foot reach of the machine gun like you would be able to in real life. And it somehow takes more time for a normal infantryman to raise his weapon to his shoulder than it does for a machine gunner to go from a sprint to all-out spray and pray.
I don't know about you, but in reality, if I was carrying a machine gun indoors and heard enemy voices in the next room, I'd back away, put down the MG, draw my sidearm, and let my ammo handlers toss a grenade in. Getting that four-foot machine gun through the average door and trying to spray down the room would be the height of idiocy and the last thing that would occur to me. In-game, it's the first thing that occurs to a player.
And um, when did I suggest that close combat is a cup of tea and a foot soak? A story comes to mind of a Marine on Peleliu getting surprised in his foxhole by a Japanese infiltrator. Both dropped their bayonets in the scuffle, and the Marine killed his adversary by shoving his middle finger into his enemy's eye socket and brain. According to an observer, the Japanese took quite some time to die, and the yells were bloodcurdling. I have no bubble that needs bursting. Don't lecture me.
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A very cool feature for the lmg-s would be to deploy them crouched while your in cover so that in the moment you exit the cover you are ready to fire. Would also give an advantage for the lmg. But I think the producers will add in the future new weapons, because if anyone watches closely the Nagant rifle it says 1830 mosin nagant, so logically it must be another rifle to be added besides the longer nagant.
Or they just wanted an accurate name for the weapon. You're reading between the lines too much. :<
Who here agrees that the proper solution to limit the hip-firing would be to use the "cone of fire" for LMG's used in the action mode?
No, because cone of fire is a stupid, gamey relic of days gone by in FPS design and has no place in realism or classic. Why it is still even a thing in game development is beyond me.
That's on top of the fact that it would do absolutely nothing to stop the practice. Considering most of this room-clearance hipfiring is done at point-blank range, how is a cone of fire going to have any effect at all? If anything, it'll make the MG even more overpowered as a room-clearing device.
If you watch really really really really closely and read really really really carefully, it actually says "Mosin Nagant M1891/30"
Think about it, if you were walking with a what ~8kg MG outstretched in front of you, would it not get tiring after a while? My proposal is that when walking that the MG is held to the avatars side, like when they are sprinting, sway be implemented when the gun is held forwards, and that a a feature is implemented where you must "aim" using a key to bring the MG around front.
no.. No.. NO! Why do we strive for realism when you want to throw in BS like that into the game?
Because...?rechz said:
It'd be good to see the ground on which you're basing your opinion. It's hard (if not impossible) to discuss (or argue) about one's opinion. It's easier to discuss facts and arguments.
Maybe a animation like in Ostfront for lmg-s but making it more refined. So that you can kill enemies with hipfire. Or maybe add a feature for when using a heavy weapon to get tired and lower your Stamina. Why not also make anti tank rifles hipfire but make them consume a lot of stamina when firing to make them instable also rather impossible to fire.
I think the thing to keep in mind here is that the LMG would be very difficult to control, especially at the default movement speed which is jogging.
Another thing to keep in mind is because its heavy, a person is not likely to have the weapon raised/pointed in a ready to fire position. Hence the requests for a mouse click (and small delay) to get the weapon lifted and swung into that position.
Now, at the default movement speed of jogging, it should be next to impossible to hit anything with any accuracy and it would be mostly luck or the enemy is very close and right in front of you. Since you have no real stable stance, recoil should be really evident.
At a walk speed (not in the normal movement choices but can be enabled in the .ini) you maybe slightly more accurate, but only in comparison to firing while jogging. Maybe slightly less recoil because you are using a slower deliberate movement speed.
Standing still should be the only real chance at some sort of accuracy of firing an LMG and then only in short bursts. You should still have some sort of recoil and it still should not compare to the accuracy of an SMG.
To me, that just sounds very reasonable and while I don't know for sure, it also seems like it would be more realistic from a gamepoint perspective.
Another thing to keep in mind is because its heavy, a person is not likely to have the weapon raised/pointed in a ready to fire position. Hence the requests for a mouse click (and small delay) to get the weapon lifted and swung into that position.
Now, at the default movement speed of jogging, it should be next to impossible to hit anything with any accuracy and it would be mostly luck or the enemy is very close and right in front of you. Since you have no real stable stance, recoil should be really evident.
At a walk speed (not in the normal movement choices but can be enabled in the .ini) you maybe slightly more accurate, but only in comparison to firing while jogging. Maybe slightly less recoil because you are using a slower deliberate movement speed.
Standing still should be the only real chance at some sort of accuracy of firing an LMG and then only in short bursts. You should still have some sort of recoil and it still should not compare to the accuracy of an SMG.
To me, that just sounds very reasonable and while I don't know for sure, it also seems like it would be more realistic from a gamepoint perspective.
Sorry to have to bring this old thread back up but I see many people here talking about holding up the MG34 as if these guys are supporting the 26lbs with their arms. For those that don't know the MG34 in the LMG role was issued with a sling that puts weight the of the gun on your shoulders which makes a big difference. Heres photo evidence of such http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Heer/17MG's.html I think the real question still remains. How much RL weapon experience do most of these people have that are talking realism?
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Qualified on the Minimi. A friend who was an MG3 gunner in the Bundeswehr wet himself laughing when I showed him the MG gameplay. A sling might help but it doesn't turn a GPMG into a carbine.
Just last night I was spectating and saw someone using a hipfiring MG34 to kill a DEPLOYED DP28 gunner who was waiting for him. The German was crouched and quickly leaning out from behind a corner, while the other guy had already fired a couple of bursts at him. It took the German exactly 1, very brief burst while leaning to peg the Russian. Thoroughly ridiculous.
Just last night I was spectating and saw someone using a hipfiring MG34 to kill a DEPLOYED DP28 gunner who was waiting for him. The German was crouched and quickly leaning out from behind a corner, while the other guy had already fired a couple of bursts at him. It took the German exactly 1, very brief burst while leaning to peg the Russian. Thoroughly ridiculous.
Hipfiring mg-s were a common view in Vietnam like the M60 Craig M60 Med Burst from Hip - YouTube
Also they had a special version of the gun made for the special forces
It was intended to use it for hipfiring. I know that the ww2 guns are diffrent from the modern ones we have today. But the hipfiring was something intended by the soldiers. So why not make maybe a Stamina feature like carrying the MG like in Ostfront but when you put in firing mode it starts consuming stamina. It would be more realistic this way.
Also they had a special version of the gun made for the special forces
It was intended to use it for hipfiring. I know that the ww2 guns are diffrent from the modern ones we have today. But the hipfiring was something intended by the soldiers. So why not make maybe a Stamina feature like carrying the MG like in Ostfront but when you put in firing mode it starts consuming stamina. It would be more realistic this way.