Maybe the devs love using hipfiring MG34's as assault troopers?
Not sure that the devs really love playing their own game.
Stop the incredibly easy and unbelievable hipfiring MGs!!!
- Thread starter =GG= Mr Moe
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Not sure that the devs really love playing their own game.
Like I said before make the hipfire mg-s consume stamina when firing so that eventough you fire you will lose a lot of stamina and will not fire as accurately.
There is nothing wrong with the current MG hipfire. If you knew anything about guns in real life, you would know that a heavier gun will recoil less. The mg34 weighs around 26lbs which is not all that bad if you are use to carrying it around. I use to do curls with 40lbs weights as a young teenager. fairly accurate spraying at close range is more than possible with an MG. People just need to learn what is real and what is not before they say something is unrealistic. Sorry to say but men were men back in those days. They weren't a bunch of skinny jean wearing fems that sat around most of the day.
Hahaha... I'm afraid not. A weapon's recoil depends just as much on the round it fires, the type of action, and (for automatic weapons) the rate of fire.
The PTRS, for instance, is plenty heavy, but that 14.5mm BS-32 Armor-Piercing round has a beast of a kick.
Maschinengewehr 34, MG 34, (machine gun 34) - YouTube
In the video above, you can clearly see that when fired, the MG-34 recoils with more than enough force to push that 26 pound weapon backwards and even jostle the tripod.
MG-34 Madness Standing Fire - YouTube
This video shows just how the MG-34 behaves when hipfired (from an improper stance, it must be said). Specifically watch the part from 0:20-0:30. Explain to me how he is supposed to strafe from side to side, crouching and uncrouching, jumping up and down while mashing the trigger on full automatic? Without his shoulder there to brace the weapon, that backwards recoil is completely free to throw the MG-34 around.
Running around wildly with an MG-34 and jumping around, side-strafing, jogging forwards, backwards, diagonally, and crouching/uncrouching madly just seems like an accident waiting to happen. If I tried hipfiring an MG-34, I'd probably be too unnerved to even walk while shooting it.
your post would have impressed me if after you said, "If you knew anything about guns in real life", you would have said the you've carried the mg34 into a field and fired it fully automatic and it was easy, rather than saying you used to lift 40 pound weights.
I was talking about average rifle/pistol caliber infantry weapons not anti material rifles. A heavier gun will be thrown around less than a lighter gun using the same round and that is a fact. I was not implying that weight does away entirely with recoil. That video you posted simply shows a guy firing from the hip and the gun is not flying up into his face after the 3rd shot like people seems to think they should in game. It's true that in real life you would not be able to jump around and crouch while doing so. But then again there are a lot of things in game that are not true to RL. Also I was not bragging about lifting weights as much as I was saying that a trained german machinegunner would be able to handle his MG. He would have carried the weapon around and gotten use to its weight over time. I have heard many veteran stories of MG's being fired from the hip in combat. Go to about 40 seconds on this one. Shootout Okinawa The Last Battle Of WW2 (2/5) - YouTube and 4:20 from here Shootout Okinawa The Last Battle Of WW2 (3/5) - YouTube
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A reconstitution from words (from old men). I don't think you could have been much more convincing.
The words make heros of war... Not the reality.
The words make heros of war... Not the reality.
Neither of those men was doing a whole lot of jogging around while firing.
Furthermore, these men were doing the extraordinary. Amped up on adrenaline, they were using hipfire as a tactic of last resort under desperate circumstances.
In RO2, hipfire is ordinary. It's anything but desperate--it's the default grip you hold the weapon with.
I think both sides are partly right. Specifically:
1) A DP28 weights 9kg and fires 9 rounds per second. A PPSH weights 4kg and fires 15 rounds per second. So DP28 is 1 round/kg/second whereas PPSH is 3.75 rounds/kg/second.
Now PPSH rounds are much much weaker (about 5 times less energy), so DP28 would have about a third more recoil than a PPSH when fired from the hip.
I bump-fired a PSL54 (half the weight of a DP28) from a very inconvenient position, and it’s easy to do. It’s just very hard to hit anything specific beyond 10m.
2) Hipfiring is a great way of shooting on the run. It’s not the primary way soldiers are trained to fire because they don’t usually do Rambo fighting like you see in RO.
You can’t run and dodge very well with a gun shouldered, and if you run into a room with an opponent and try to shoulder your gun he’ll splatter you from the hip before you can aim.
So yes, hipfiring is great at really close ranges and is quite realistic. One thing that RO doesn’t quite show is the psychological effect – if you spray from the hip, even if you miss, the opponent will likely run away or take cover (admittedly, suppression is a good, people just aren’t afraid like IRL).
3) That said, hipfiring recoil should be increased some, and accuracy decreased. Not much, maybe 25%.
I’m ambivalent on the pointing the weapon while walking thing. It’s easily doable, decreases your walking speed a bit: you walk with the weapon supported by a sling, left hand on the bipod, right elbow pressing the gun against your body – 5 points of control to tell you where the gun is pointing and tame the recoil. As explained above, the kick isn’t terrible, you don’t actually need to brace unless you plan to blast the whole drum at something in the distance.
Best wishes,
Daniel
1) A DP28 weights 9kg and fires 9 rounds per second. A PPSH weights 4kg and fires 15 rounds per second. So DP28 is 1 round/kg/second whereas PPSH is 3.75 rounds/kg/second.
Now PPSH rounds are much much weaker (about 5 times less energy), so DP28 would have about a third more recoil than a PPSH when fired from the hip.
I bump-fired a PSL54 (half the weight of a DP28) from a very inconvenient position, and it’s easy to do. It’s just very hard to hit anything specific beyond 10m.
2) Hipfiring is a great way of shooting on the run. It’s not the primary way soldiers are trained to fire because they don’t usually do Rambo fighting like you see in RO.
You can’t run and dodge very well with a gun shouldered, and if you run into a room with an opponent and try to shoulder your gun he’ll splatter you from the hip before you can aim.
So yes, hipfiring is great at really close ranges and is quite realistic. One thing that RO doesn’t quite show is the psychological effect – if you spray from the hip, even if you miss, the opponent will likely run away or take cover (admittedly, suppression is a good, people just aren’t afraid like IRL).
3) That said, hipfiring recoil should be increased some, and accuracy decreased. Not much, maybe 25%.
I’m ambivalent on the pointing the weapon while walking thing. It’s easily doable, decreases your walking speed a bit: you walk with the weapon supported by a sling, left hand on the bipod, right elbow pressing the gun against your body – 5 points of control to tell you where the gun is pointing and tame the recoil. As explained above, the kick isn’t terrible, you don’t actually need to brace unless you plan to blast the whole drum at something in the distance.
Best wishes,
Daniel
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Yeah and those machineguns they were firing from the hip happen to weigh alot more than the MG34. That browning M1917 in the first vid is 60+ lbs where as the MG34 is around 26lbs. That is not much more than a M1918a2 otherwise known as the BAR. And I hate to burst your bubble but all close combat is done with desperation. You are trying to survive while someone else is trying to kill you. Just because you are not being overun does not mean your heart rate is going to slow and you are gonna stop for a cup of tea and a foot soak. If you are anywhere near visual contact with an armed enemy you can bet your *** that your nerves would be going like crazy and you would be on your toes.
What I say is that while we didn't get any real old representation from the war showing a guy running with an MG in hands and firing, I just wont believe it.
Blah, blah. Yadda, yadda...
Red Orchestra 2 Heroes of Stalingrad MG-34 gameplay - YouTube
...case closed. MG hip-firing in RO2 is (still) ridiculous.
Red Orchestra 2 Heroes of Stalingrad MG-34 gameplay - YouTube
...case closed. MG hip-firing in RO2 is (still) ridiculous.