Stop the incredibly easy and unbelievable hipfiring MGs!!!

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defektive

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 16, 2011
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Because it's meant to be easy to redeploy, so as to keep up with an advance. Not to lead the charge but to follow it relatively closely and to quickly take up defensive positions once an objective is taken.
Precisely; it's a highly 'mobile' support weapon but someone, somewhere, wrongly interpreted that as being 'front man CQB assault'.

Aside from the tank non-game this is about the only thing remaining in RO2 that blows goats and really does put me off - it's becoming too late in the day to keep trying to ignore such aberrations as being known design flaws that are just awaiting their turn on the fix list; however, so ludicrous is the way in which MGs are being thrown around like SMGs in this game (see above videos - or just play the game) that I still cling on to a thread of hope that this will indeed be addressed - eventually.

On some maps - Apartzig for example - some people are just going to have to get used to the idea that machine guns simply aren't going to be all that effective and in no way should this be justification for allowing Rambo MGing. If the game shipped with maps that featured large, open spaces it would be ridiculous if the SMGs were all mystically able to snipe reliably up to 200 yards just so that they could be effective in such locations. Most of the maps that shipped with RO2 are not ideal MG battlegrounds and rather than allow that entirely realistic characteristic to become an authentic feature of the way in which RO2 represents various combat environments the MGs instead received a highly implausible role-creep transformation and became effective CQB assault weapons. Larger maps have been released and are in development so there is now no reason why the MGs need to hold on to this highly unrealistic and entirely gamey artificial characteristic.

If people argue that putting a stop to such MG hip-firing silliness will somehow render the class less useful then in answer to this I would say: good, because they're not meant to be able to lead an SMG assault. They're meant to just about keep up with an assault by being easily portable and rapidly redeployable in time to be able to support the assault by laying down suppressive fire from a relatively fixed forward position. MGs have recently received some lovin' to make them more suited to their intended role with the likes of dramatically reduced recoil kick-up when deployed and through being more easily deployable in the first instance, so with these role-enabling characteristics being improved, and an increasing number of good MG-supporting maps, can we now please put a stop to the John Rambo room clearance machine-gunning?
 

Victhor-ASH

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 14, 2011
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The problem of the Rambo mg style is only in the normal Red Orchestra mod, in the Original mode from the beta I haven't seen a single person trying to do that because is much more harder. I think the problem is the speed, if we keep it like in the Original mode, none of this problems would be noticed.
 

Andrew Blake

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 6, 2011
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The problem of the Rambo mg style is only in the normal Red Orchestra mod, in the Original mode from the beta I haven't seen a single person trying to do that because is much more harder. I think the problem is the speed, if we keep it like in the Original mode, none of this problems would be noticed.

The issue is still there, regardless of you noticing it or not. Because of the playerbase, game mode etc the issue will be less of course. Still it's a completely retarded use of the mg class.

As for seeing who has used the mg for attacking, I've seen the TWI dev Operator done this multiple times in the beta with the DP-28.


There is a defenitive need nor another system for shooting with the mg from the hip.
 

Victhor-ASH

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 14, 2011
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Of course you can Rambo style with many guns like the Mkb, but in the Original mode in Beta, you get shot very easily so that wouldn't be a solution.
 

Victhor-ASH

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 14, 2011
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Isnt that how the mode is called in the Red orchestra 2 beta version the one wich makes the experience ostfront like ?
 

Victhor-ASH

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 14, 2011
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Man I played with the russian mg is stupid to hipfire it is so hard and also is very ackward for the bullet spreading, a solution would be to not move while firing, also a very annoying thing is the deploying spots on a map when you want to deploy on a very good spot to kill the enemy you cant, is very annoying, but in my opinion it compensates a little by hipfiring the mg.
 

Gudenrath

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 23, 2011
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The problem of ramboing mg hipfire is still prevalent in classic. Which is why we need the RO1 method of right click for hipfire mg.

It won't make it into the upcoming patch unfortunately as they have already stated that they won't add new changes only fixes of the current ones. But hopefully it is something that will be added to the next patch.
 

Joseph-Porta

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 14, 2011
407
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So solution it seems to be:

Make them hit the ironsights button to "raise the mg" to shoot "accurate".. aka take a firing stance.. but shooting without right clicking should be possible too.. but here I'm fine with some loss of gun accuracy, because that thing goes everywhere if you don't brace it properly.
Problem solved?

Whatever happens, -do not- bring back the nonsence form RO_OST, that stuff was ridiculous.

Because as an machine gunner, sitting in a window sending death into the enemy's field of advance.. I want to be able to turn around when I hear screaming russians come up the stairs, sit down, point my MG at the door and blow him away with a solid burst when the man tries to bayonet charge me. not being forced by some stupid magic "bullets suddenly go in 90degree cone because you are not deployed", having me change to a weak pistol for self defence that has no effect on them and just get stabbed.. seeing him patch himself up form the 3 shots i put in him..
 
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Gudenrath

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 23, 2011
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So solution it seems to be:

Make them hit the ironsights button to "raise the mg" to shoot "accurate".. aka take a firing stance.. but shooting without right clicking should be possible too.. but here I'm fine with some loss of gun accuracy, because that thing goes everywhere if you don't brace it properly.
Problem solved?

I disagree. Right clicking to hipfire should invovle loss of accuracy and markedly slowing the character down, and no hipfiring of the mg should be possible at all without right clicking. Without having rightclicked the player should carry the gun, not having it deployed.

If you want to fight off people attacking you quickly as a machinegunner, you draw your pistol, thats what its there for.
 

Giuliano

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 6, 2011
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It would be great if they brought back the RO1 mg hipfiring. It really discouraged MGers from running around with their MG unless totally necessary.
 

Victhor-ASH

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 14, 2011
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I disagree it is very frustrating to have that system when you have to fast position the gun to fire, in Classic mode that isnt such an issue, I really think that only the character skills should be diminished.
 

Joseph-Porta

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 14, 2011
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I disagree. Right clicking to hipfire should invovle loss of accuracy and markedly slowing the character down, and no hipfiring of the mg should be possible at all without right clicking. Without having rightclicked the player should carry the gun, not having it deployed.

If you want to fight off people attacking you quickly as a machinegunner, you draw your pistol, thats what its there for.

How would you implement the loss of accuracy then?
What I mean is this, I dont want to see the stupid "if not deplyed. Your MG spreads bullets in a 2 meter wide cone 5 meters ahead and does not hit anything" from RO:OST

BUT!

One way of rapid movement (ive done this alot during exercises with MG3) with the MG is to have it rest on your shoulder. Holding onto the buttstock.

So when you move around (at normal run speed) you carry the MG on your shoulder.. You rightclick, you pull the buttstock down, (this would take a little moment 2-3 sec or so.. so you have an disadvantage over the SMGer) making the MG flip forwards.. Bring it down, go into fiering stance.. and now you can slowly move around (like in RO:OST) and hipshoot. But slow..

Ofc one might concider that the maxxed lvl recoil reduction like this should have been reduced a bit so you are at the early lvl hipfire recoil lvlish..

1. No more running and shooting

2. Takes 2-3 sec to raise the weapon.

3. you basicly cant walk around and rambo like today because you move too slow while in the fiering stance..

4. MG gunner can sill defend himself in tight situations. => standing/sitting down somewhere and pointing the MG at someone close and blow them away. (use your grenades damn it, and the MGer is toast. Listen to comrade Zukow's advice)

5. No more running into an running MG hipster shooter that kills you.

Spoiler!


This is the closest way I found a picture of the way of carrying it.. I could ofc Demonstrate with my MG42 =)

Something like that might have worked to tweak the running around with MG 'problem' we have?

ofc if you switch to pistol you can put the MG on your back and you'd just be an slightly weighted down solider with an pistol..
 

Victhor-ASH

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 14, 2011
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I agree, it would be better that way, but a very annoying thing is that if you try to switch on the mg the sights to 200 m it sometimes activates the inventory button, can't there be a feature, so that when you press the right click simultaneously with the mouse scroll you can level up the sights.

Also I was thinking of some feature for the mg instead of adding the new 3 second delay to position the mg, why not add the feature to automatic consum the stamina while hipfiring it ? It would be the same thing, you lose accuracy and cant fire at distance?
 

Joseph-Porta

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 14, 2011
407
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Also I was thinking of some feature for the mg instead of adding the new 3 second delay to position the mg, why not add the feature to automatic consum the stamina while hipfiring it ? It would be the same thing, you lose accuracy and cant fire at distance?

That could work. :3

My suggestion would take a lot of work due to new animations both first person and third.. But it could look rather badass?
 

Victhor-ASH

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 14, 2011
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Yes, but the annoying thing with the Mg is that you can't position it on surfaces very easy, if you could position it on a friendly soldiers shoulder would have been very cool.

But I think you ideea can be done too, the mechanics already exist from the first Red orchestra they only need to move it for Red Orchestra 2. But the thing is that the mg would need to be positioned to hipfire much faster than in Ostfront, there that feature was pretty useless I mean you couldn't kill by hipfiring any enemy. If there is to add such a feature it should make use of stamina something like if a soldier would have enough stamina to fire the gun it would hipfire it the same like now but in real life a mg gunner in close quarters wouldve maneuvered his gun in any way possible to kill the enemy didn't matter the fatigue or position of it. WW2 German MG34 & MG42 Machine Gun - - YouTube here is some footage of ww2 mg gunners.
 

Crusher

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
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This suggestion has been around since the early beta. Afaik there hasn't been any official comment about it.
I support it though.
 
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