StG44 in 1942?

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Tomcat_ha

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Nov 21, 2005
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...Which is why there were T-55s among the Russian forces sent to Georgia?

Afaik there were only T72's send to Georgia. That said an upgraded T55 is still fairly decent for a low intensity conflict. Despite the russians indeed having not send their most capable equipment to Georgia they still completely steamrolled them, with way fewer men.
 

Lucan946

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Jun 12, 2009
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Afaik there were only T72's send to Georgia. That said an upgraded T55 is still fairly decent for a low intensity conflict. Despite the russians indeed having not send their most capable equipment to Georgia they still completely steamrolled them, with way fewer men.

There were:

5 T-55s, 29 T-62, 86 T-72B, 30 T-72BM.

Also, don't get me wrong, I know the T-55A is just fine for what they sent it in to do (it wasn't like they were sending them to fight against a well-trained armoured corps with unshakable morale, although they did have fairly modern tanks [T-72M), but it still illustrates the point that the best equipment does not always make it into the combat zone. Considering that (fictional) Chernarus is similar to Georgia insofar as its military, so I'm just making a point.

Yup.
T55 > AK-107 :p

True, any tank is better than no tank. Just an illustration of the point that the best equipment isn't always sent in. Otherwise, there would have been hundreds of T-80Us and T-90s rolling into Georgia, while squadrons of SU-34s did barrel rolls overhead.
 
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Arto1990

Member
Apr 15, 2006
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The russian division in ossetia was not exactly the best equipped, i heard that some squads used mobile phones to communicate.
 

Lucan946

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Jun 12, 2009
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The russian division in ossetia was no exactly the best equipped , i heard that same squads used mobile phones to communicate.

Yeah, the Russians didn't cherry-pick the most up-to-date unit. I'm pretty sure Russia just grabbed the nearest units (I know there were at least 5 battalions of the 58th Army in there) and threw them in. One of the TIME magazine photos displays a Russian soldier guarding a mechanized column with an AK-74 in his hands rather than an AK-74M. Not really a big deal, but it gives some insight into the army's state of equipment, perhaps.
 

bas

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 4, 2005
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www.gunpics.net
Back on topic, do the Tripwire researchers have access to the book "Sturmgewehr from Firepower to Striking Power" by Hans - Dieter Handrich. Published by collector grade publications?

It is based on actual German documents, well researched and dispells a few of the myths surrounding the StG.44 series of weapons.

1. The story of the MKb.42 being dropped into the Cholm pocket is most likely that, a story. As someone else mentioned the breakout of Cholm was well photographed and there are none which show the MKb.42

2. First recorded combat troop trials of the MKb.42 was in April 1943

Page 157:
In a teletype message from OrgAbt to ChefHRustuBdE/AHA (copies to GenQu, GendInf, etc) re troop trials with MP43 dated 31 March 1943, the WaA announced that the initial weapons would be ready during the first week of April. To save time, it was planned to ship them directly from the Haenel factory to the divisions of the HGrNord and not as usual via the Heereszeugamt (Ordnance Depot) at Spandau. In a teletype message to the AHA dated March 31, 1943 the OrgAbt stated that 1500 weapons would be ready for delivery on April 10, 1943

3. The troop trials of the MKb.42 were not favourable, some quotes from the troops that used them (pg 162 & 163):

Since the M.Pi.43 (A) (This is the MKb.42(H) the groups were also supplied a limited number of MP.43/1s which were designated MP.43b) failed completely in the decisive moments, it is for the time being no longer in use by the Comp. at the Sinjawino precipice. The gunners have lost faith in the weapon

My comments in italics.

My own experience with this new weapon was bad from the beginning on. To show my attitude towards this weapon very clearly: I prefer in action the rifle 98k

I think it can be safely said that the chances of there being a MKb.42 present at Stalingrad as so slim that they might as well be zero.

But hey it is a game after all so if it improves game play, go for it.
 

LemoN

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 26, 2006
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Prussotroll's Bridge
Yeah, the Russians didn't cherry-pick the most up-to-date unit. I'm pretty sure Russia just grabbed the nearest units (I know there were at least 5 battalions of the 58th Army in there) and threw them in. One of the TIME magazine photos displays a Russian soldier guarding a mechanized column with an AK-74 in his hands rather than an AK-74M. Not really a big deal, but it gives some insight into the army's state of equipment, perhaps.

Well, you can't compare a planned invasion with the action in Georgia.
 

Lucan946

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 12, 2009
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geography aside i took chernarus to blatently be chechnya - but this does not invalidate your point.

Nope, the CDF is far too well-equipped (they have their own fully-functional air force, along with multiple armored units) to be a synonym for Chechen militia. Their use of Western and Eastern equipment simultaneously (I.E Their helmets are of Western make, but their uniforms are old Soviet ones, so it would appear) reflect Georgia in some ways.

Well, you can't compare a planned invasion with the action in Georgia.

True.
 
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dogbadger

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 19, 2006
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here to kill your monster
Nope, the CDF is far too well-equipped (they have their own fully-functional air force, along with multiple armored units) to be a synonym for Chechen militia.....

oh , right i dunno about that/them i didn't play through.
not that it's citizen cane or anything but -
I played the first mission where there's a doctor tied up, a battered bird and some references to atrocities including a mass grave.
they talk about the 'chedaki' rebels and i just took them to be like chetchen rebels.
Then i assaulted something in a town and next mission i ran around finding outposts and war criminals.

But if theres a bigger picture i missed it cos i wasn't really following - I tend to just shoot stuff tbh
 

LemoN

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 26, 2006
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Prussotroll's Bridge
Back on topic, do the Tripwire researchers have access to the book "Sturmgewehr from Firepower to Striking Power" by Hans - Dieter Handrich. Published by collector grade publications?

It is based on actual German documents, well researched and dispells a few of the myths surrounding the StG.44 series of weapons.

1. The story of the MKb.42 being dropped into the Cholm pocket is most likely that, a story. As someone else mentioned the breakout of Cholm was well photographed and there are none which show the MKb.42

2. First recorded combat troop trials of the MKb.42 was in April 1943

Page 157:


3. The troop trials of the MKb.42 were not favourable, some quotes from the troops that used them (pg 162 & 163):



My comments in italics.



I think it can be safely said that the chances of there being a MKb.42 present at Stalingrad as so slim that they might as well be zero.

But hey it is a game after all so if it improves game play, go for it.

Most of that stuff has been pointed out by me and others already. :)
But good to see a definite source now. :D
 

Lucan946

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 12, 2009
636
84
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oh , right i dunno about that/them i didn't play through.
not that it's citizen cane or anything but -
I played the first mission where there's a doctor tied up, a battered bird and some references to atrocities including a mass grave.
they talk about the 'chedaki' rebels and i just took them to be like chetchen rebels.
Then i assaulted something in a town and next mission i ran around finding outposts and war criminals.

But if theres a bigger picture i missed it cos i wasn't really following - I tend to just shoot stuff tbh

I'm just going based on equipment, really. I never did finish the campaign.
 

SheepDip

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
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The Elitist Prick Club
I'm coming out of retirement.

How is that source "definitive"? The actual production started in November 1942 (according to almost every source I've found), it's highly unlikely to have taken 5 months before any of them saw combat.

And from http://www.amazon.com/German-Assault-Rifle-1935-1945-Senich/dp/087364400X again

Based on experiences with the Mkb 42 (H) prototypes, the Heereswaffenamt mandated various changes to the design. These included provisions for mounting the standard service bayonet, as well as increasing the diameter and pitch of the muzzle threads. By November 1942, deliveries of the new MKb were reaching troops in significant numbers. Initial reports from the field were very favorable, with the only negative comments being the high prone firing position necessitated by the long magazine and the brilliant muzzle flash during night firing. Modifications to the MKb 42(H) also included a spring loaded ejection port cover (much like that found on M16 rifles) to keep debris out of the mechanism, and telescope mounting rails on the rear sight block. A total of 11,853 Mkb 42(H)'s were produced between November 1942 and September 1943 when MKb production gave way to the improved MP43 series.
and also

In early 1942, Adolf Hitler began to deeply involve himself in the development and introduction of new weapons. Apparently, Hitler expressed more than a little displeasure at the thought of introducing an entirely new weapon and cartridge, and ordered work to cease on the machine carbine program. Despite this, certain groups within the Heereswaffenamt were more interested in fielding effective weaponry than respecting the Fuhrer's unreasonable orders. Therefore, the project continued on a more or less covert basis, with all references to the MKb being dropped altogether, and work continued under the designations MP42 and MP43 - the idea being to convey that these referred to improvements in existing weapons. Hitler was eventually clued in as to the true nature of the MP43 project and ordered an immediate termination to the project. However, a "special series" limited to those quantities of guns and parts already in production was authorized in March 1943. The forces behind the intermediate rifle concept took a very liberal view of what was already "in production." As an epilogue, when faced with very positive combat evaluations of the MP43 from Russia, Hitler finally changed his views, and in September 1943, the project was given official blessing and could continue openly.
If that is true I don't think "official documents" are going to tell the full story of the weapons development...
 
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Fedorov

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 8, 2005
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I don't understand the masochistic line of thought that could make people want to remove the gun from the game.

Without any proof that the gun didn't make it to Stalingrad, I'd vote for what gives the game more variety. :IS2:
 
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