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Stalker suggestions

Soanos

Member
Jul 2, 2009
569
8
18
Finland
what about the stalker having some kind of highly damaging rear attack, possibly some immobalizing attack? ( stranglehold ? )

edit:

oh and chumps, i thought his video was pointing out how easy it was to evade them, DESPITE their faster move speed, like how he crouched for that 1 block by the gate, they stop uncloak and attack, that process takes them so long that they miss, ergo they should have a 'moving' attack...
I think a moving attack would be enough, to be honest. That would raise their threat level considerably. However, Stalker is a Wave 2 specimen so the moving attack should be weaker.
 

Slappy Cromwell

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 16, 2009
441
180
0
For the record, a specimen inadvertently walking up to a player from behind simply because they spawned there is not "flanking" behavior. As I've said before, if you count this to be "flanking", then every other specimen should also be considered flanking geniuses. Crawlers, in particular, would be kings since they spawn in the same places as Stalkers, yet they're clearly the ones that actually rack up the damage and kills.

Well, I did notice you kited them most of the time, which is running away from something. Of course they try to follow you and then fall in line.
I was crouching. Do you realize how slow crouching makes you move? Try and outrun an angry Fleshpound by crouching and see how long you live. If Stalkers are ever to try and flank, which they don't because they can't, then a target moving slower than a Clot should be the perfect candidate. You'll also notice that there were 22 Stalkers and one of me. If they had the AI to flank, which to reiterate, they don't, this would be the perfect opportunity to surround me. It would be nice if they could, but that can't, so they won't.

Before they added random moving attacks to Gorefasts, Scrakes and Fleshpounds, this was a fact with pretty much EVERY specimen.
You could not kite any of those specimens by crouching, although you can quite clearly do so to Stalkers even though they are, in fact, faster then those mentioned specimens in most situations.

You're the only one in there. Their AI isn't THAT smart to flank the only person there.
They don't have the AI at all. That's what I hope people are realizing by now, hence why I'm suggesting it.

See how useless they are in Hard and Suicidal.
As was demonstrated in the video, Stalkers only do 10 damage on Suicidal, and that's if you have no armor. The only weaker specimens in regards to melee strength are Clots and Crawlers, which I have already taken the time to point out are superior in virtually every other aspect.

Get some actual gameplay (6 man server on an official map) if you want to really prove the uselessness of Stalkers.
I knifed 22 simultaneous Stalkers to death using the primary fire with the equivalent of a level 0 perk and no armor on Suicidal. Do you honestly think the 3-4 that spawn at a time in regular gameplay will prove to be more effective? If you consider unintentionally blocking the player to be their great skill, then once again, every other specimen can do that as well. I would infinitely prefer to be blocked by a thoroughly ineffective Stalker than a Gorefast, though.

Then they do try and flank.
No they do not. Stalkers are incapable of flanking. They do not have the AI coding to attempt so.

However, Stalker is a Wave 2 specimen so the moving attack should be weaker.
Crawlers are also a Wave 2 specimen yet they have a quite deadly moving attack. Hell, Gorefasts are a Wave 0 specimen yet they're quite likely to kill you with a few well placed slashes, so what's your point?
 

Electrocuuute

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 17, 2009
206
0
0
You ignored my part about specimens working as a team.

Clots aren't dangerous at all, but with all the specimens spawning (not just them) they can be annoying and potentially fatal. Same goes for the stalker, except she's more dangerous because there's the chance you'll overlook her shimmer at a distance.

Right now, I'm basically saying that she's not really much more of a threat than a clot, but that doesn't make them useless. But I wouldn't mind if a flanking code was put in extra damage given to an attack from behind.
 

pocoyo

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 3, 2009
55
0
0
What do you expect? you are kiting all the stalkers so that is what u going to get... I have played in servers where they spawn 128 zombies and stalkers are annoying.
 
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NitroBullet

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 4, 2009
191
44
0
Stalkers right now are only good for trapping you from behind. Crawlers surpass Stalker's ability because their lunge follows you in distance, so you cannot kite them. If anything give stalkers that same ability, or let them grab you.

By the way, I have never been killed by a stalker before in my whole Killing Floor career. Clots killed me more than Stalkers...
 
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Wolfdust

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 24, 2009
236
9
0
Massachusetts, USA
You ignored my part about specimens working as a team.
No he didn't.

If the Stalkers were working as a team they would have abandoned their Congo line when Cromwell was crouching backwards away from them. If Stalkers had any sense of teamwork the rearmost (or side most) Stalkers would have broken off and come around behind Cromwell to halt his retreat and trap him in a zombie rape pile.

Even without other specimens they could have got him if Stalkers had any idea of what flanking was.
 

Cujucuyo

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 31, 2009
4
0
0
IMO Stalkers are very deadly as it is, when you least expect it they are ripping you appart, and when you pay attention to them a clot grabs you [unless you're berserker] and unless you have a team mate paying attention you're as good as dead! It would be nice to see them have more health though and extra movements instead of the run-->stop--->attack pattern which was removed on the last patch for some specimens like the clot and gorefast who now make random moves.
 

Electrocuuute

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 17, 2009
206
0
0
No he didn't.

If the Stalkers were working as a team they would have abandoned their Congo line when Cromwell was crouching backwards away from them. If Stalkers had any sense of teamwork the rearmost (or side most) Stalkers would have broken off and come around behind Cromwell to halt his retreat and trap him in a zombie rape pile.

Even without other specimens they could have got him if Stalkers had any idea of what flanking was.
Their AI isn't smart enough to give them "actual teamwork". What I meant was all the different specimens working together. In mutators they suck. Anything from Scrake and below is a piece of cake to kill. When you've got bigger matters such as the Scrake or FP, you usually switch your focus to those. In that time, any crap specimen can come up and gang bang you from behind, the side, anywhere. Stalkers are a bit worse because if you're not looking for their shimmer, you might not think you're about to be attacked.
 

IS-234

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2009
234
0
0
if you think stalkers are smart gorefast are tactical geniuses i played a round on hard as i reloaded my bullpup 5 of them broke up the group i was about unload my clip into and charged me line abreast so that couldn't kill all of them in time
 

[AM]Echo_419

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 20, 2009
45
0
0
Hey I got an idea! Lets stop pissing and moaning about it. :p I mean c'mon guys yes stalkers might seem uselss are first but if your using anything other than the commando perk they can give good scares. And if they spawn behind you then all the merrier, they would be fulfilling there objective. That is to appear only when attacking and essentially come out of nowhere. The stalkers scare me more than any other creature in KF. Your actually the first person Ive ever seen complain about the stalkers..ever. I just dont see the point in your frustration.
 

pocoyo

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 3, 2009
55
0
0
Hey I got an idea! Lets stop pissing and moaning about it. :p I mean c'mon guys yes stalkers might seem uselss are first but if your using anything other than the commando perk they can give good scares. And if they spawn behind you then all the merrier, they would be fulfilling there objective. That is to appear only when attacking and essentially come out of nowhere. The stalkers scare me more than any other creature in KF. Your actually the first person Ive ever seen complain about the stalkers..ever. I just dont see the point in your frustration.
He just made a full lap in london and kite all the stalkers, then say OMG stalkers are useless, first you are not playing the game the way is intended to play why don't u get inside the police station and see how u do make a video and show us how bad the stalkers are, same way like u spawn the whole map full of bloats and complain OMG bloats are useless, they are slow and they stop when they attack... And no don't be a medic, spawn as a class with no speed boost. I don't play as a medic anymore because the game is too easy...
 
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permadrunkj

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 5, 2009
8
0
0
I think of stalkers as Meg Griffin from Family Guy, in the episode where they get super powers. She gets the power to grow her fingernails, and scratches that guy. *Fingernails extend* "Is that all you can do? Ouch. That kinda hurt. Is that bleeding? No, I guess it's alright. But, ouch though."

I think the stalkers play their role pretty well. They are useless when a team is held up in a room with only one entrance. But on a map like Farm, when the team isn't exploiting the map they can become a nuisance. Not to the point where I would die from them, but I do get hit from them sometimes when I am not paying attention. Usually when attacking other enemies. I see other people who either have trouble spotting stalkers visually, have no/low sound, or are just morons, getting attacked by stalkers quite often. I sometimes run into them, thinking I hit an invisible wall.
 

Slappy Cromwell

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 16, 2009
441
180
0
He just made a full lap in london and kite all the stalkers, then say OMG stalkers are useless
I would only consider it kiting if it fell under the two following circumstances:

1. I intentionally funnel the specimens through a narrow opening.
2. I intentionally run faster than them by equipping the knife and using a high level perk such as the medic or berserker.

However, if you'd opened your eyes while watching the video, you'll notice two startling factors:

1. I'm in the middle of the wide open streets in West London. I purposely left the cramped tunnels as soon as possible specifically just to get to these areas. Stalkers have more than enough real estate to maneuver on the bare roads.
2. I am crouching with the pistol while using the equivalent of a level 0 perk. You'd have to stand completely still to go any slower.

This is quite the antithesis of kiting. Nonetheless, I acted the way I did there to see if any Stalker would exhibit their supposed flanking behavior, but they didn't because they can't so they won't. That's the problem I intended to illustrate.

Also, it's funny that you mention Bloats because, if you'd tried this exact technique on them, you'd find out that it doesn't work as you can't outrun Bloats by crouching. They'll eventually catch up to you and you'll end up dead in pretty short order due to their ability to move while attacking.
 

Wolfdust

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 24, 2009
236
9
0
Massachusetts, USA
Their AI isn't smart enough to give them "actual teamwork". What I meant was all the different specimens working together. In mutators they suck. Anything from Scrake and below is a piece of cake to kill. When you've got bigger matters such as the Scrake or FP, you usually switch your focus to those. In that time, any crap specimen can come up and gang bang you from behind, the side, anywhere. Stalkers are a bit worse because if you're not looking for their shimmer, you might not think you're about to be attacked.
Stalkers are pretty much worthless then, since any specimen can come out of nowhere when you're in a cluster**** like that. Like, say, Crawlers, who spawn in the same areas as Stalkers and get far more kills than Stalkers ever do.
 

thrash242

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 18, 2009
437
4
0
I agree with all these, especially the first two.

It would make commandos more useful if stalkers were completely invisible to non-commandos, at least beyond a certain range.

Also, I think all specimens should be able to attack while moving. Anything to further nerf kiting is a good thing, IMO.
 

thrash242

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 18, 2009
437
4
0
He just made a full lap in london and kite all the stalkers, then say OMG stalkers are useless, first you are not playing the game the way is intended to play why don't u get inside the police station and see how u do make a video and show us how bad the stalkers are, same way like u spawn the whole map full of bloats and complain OMG bloats are useless, they are slow and they stop when they attack... And no don't be a medic, spawn as a class with no speed boost. I don't play as a medic anymore because the game is too easy...
Holy run-on sentence, Batman!
 

Undedd Jester

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 31, 2009
3,071
881
0
Sheffield, England
1. I suggest for non-Commandos that Stalkers be completely hidden from a distance and only become a visible shadowy figure when within, say, 10 meters. Commandos should still be able to see the shadowy figures from any distance just like now.
On second thought - Agree, it is rather easy to see them at long range quite early. Except in darkness, but heck in most maps, there's tonnes of light.

2. Currently the Stalker always has to stand completely still when melee attacking. Even though she's one of the fastest specimens in the game, this weakness combined with the extremely long delay makes her one of the least likely to ever connect with a melee attack. Simple solution: Just give her moving attacks like were given to the Bloat, Gorefast, and Scrake.
Agree - The old step back and attack beats them everytime. Could also occassionally see them attack on the move, recloak and run while their partner specimens carry on attacking.

3. I suggest making this red screen and scratch effect longer and more blinding as if to imply the Stalker is attempting to claw the player's eyes out. This disorientation period would definitely add to the surprise and shock factor that it seems like the Stalker should have.
Hmmm... I guess that would be fair, although stalkers do come in bulk, and if they are constantly hitting you, you will remain permanentloy blinded. I would only say thjis one if the other 2 weren't brought in.

4. More stealthy behavior - This is probably the most difficult to implement since it requires some AI changes, but I'll mention it anyway. Stalkers aren't particularly effective since they simply charge in a straight line just like every other specimen. In their attempt to make to make a bee line for the players, they're likely to get caught in the crossfire. The cloak doesn't help much when they walk in front of a shotgun blast. I suggest encouraging the Stalkers to stay way from other specimens (i.e. attempt to maintain a minimum area of avoidance, similar to how specimens try to avoid grenades) and, when in close range, try to attack the player from the side or back so they don't unintentionally stumble into gunfire. Stalkers obviously cannot successfully flank the players in every situation, but these minor behavior alterations would go a long way to making the class more effective.
Would be hard to code in, but if possible I agree, having stalkers always moving nears walls towards a player, rather than down the middle of the corridor, forces the player to take his aim off center to kill a stalker, this makes it less like that stlakers will be caught n the crossfire.

Well thought out Slappz ;)
 

HaTeMe

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 20, 2009
2,688
550
0
Behind You!
LOL at the vid, especially the part where like 20 stalkers are after the guy and none of them can hit him while he moves away crouching xD

But yeah stalkers are ****. They are only good for blocking in very dark areas, and absorbing hits when you are trying to kill a crawler.

Play one of my Lights Out maps and I guarantee you wont see the stalkers. Or anything else for that matter xD
 

CandleJack

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 2, 2009
3,408
1,060
0
VIC
Simply making them attack on the move will suffice.

As to their imperfect cloaking, perhaps Horzine did not get to perfect it before the SHTF. As you see in Wyre, maybe they were still running tests to make the cloaking better, perfect.

And as to talking, that's their idiosyncrasy. It's what they do, and when they do it they make you look for them.

But back to my main point, bringing them in line with the other specimens by allowing them to attack on the move is all that is need to balance the Stalker with the other specimens.
 

Fish111

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 25, 2011
102
19
0
Honestly, I was about to make a thread on the need for some sort of stalker buff (I still may do that), before I saw this thread.

The stalker and the crawler overlap roles, not only because of their tendency to go undetected, but also because their movement speed is enough to catch you. However, the similarities end there as the Crawler leaps to CLOSE DISTANCE and lands an attack, whereas the stalker does the idiotic pause to attack behavior which is more than documented in that video.

Also, Slappy, I haven't checked any stats or specifics on damage, but even standing completely still I'm almost certain a crawler will deplete kevlar faster than a stalker. Although it may only seem that this is the case because you have to be braindead, afk, or already surrounded by a horde for a stalker to ever land an attack on you.

Whether they're coded to or not, I tend to notice Stalkers trying to hit squad mates from behind rather than frontal assaults. Then again, I'm not a programmer so take that as you will.

I still stick with my stance on them since they're an early wave specimen and should be dispatched with a slightly greater degree of difficulty than a Clot.
Stalkers and crawlers sometimes spawn in locations where other enemies will not, such as above the tunnels on west london, this "flanking" you think you see is completely accidental and because it is only due to spawn location players can stand in front of one and easily mow down stalkers.

Hey I got an idea! Lets stop pissing and moaning about it. :p I mean c'mon guys yes stalkers might seem uselss are first but if your using anything other than the commando perk they can give good scares... The stalkers scare me more than any other creature in KF. Your actually the first person Ive ever seen complain about the stalkers..ever.
I have only had this game for a month, and I started with commando. I then switched to playing a lot more sharpshooter and I didn't realize commandos had an ability to see stalkers because it is quite literally a useless stalker ability to begin with. As a sharpshooter a stalker has never snuck up on me, because the shimmers are flippin easy to see, and the stupid sound effects "give us a kiss" completely give her away.

Seriously, when you are near death and a medic runs to your rescue, you think "Sweet, what a good medic our team has."

When a Fleshpound is charging at you like a bat out of hell and a sharpshooter takes his head off with the bow, you feel like "Aweome, thanks man."

Nobody has ever thought "Wow, thanks for picking off those two stalkers Mr. Commando, I was a goner!"

If you believe that the degree to which an AI enemy "scares you" should be used to determine balance changes to keep a game interesting to the fullest potential... then you should be playing Hello Kitty: Island Adventure.