SS need some way to handle FP. Buff it or something.

[Utopia-Phoenix]

Support is "better" because in the game's current form it is an overpowered perk with no weaknesses. This doesn't mean commando is useless.

Yes, if winning is your only objective it is wise to have 3-4 supports on a team. However, if someone wants to play commando there is nothing wrong with that, as a great commando is a very important member of any squad. There is a reason why as commando I'll end up with more kills than any support I'm playing with, and it's not because I'm some amazing player who is on a level above everyone else.

Support is not perfect. No weakness?
They fear husks which consists a huge part of the enemy troops.
They are low(at least relatively low) on ammo.
Their weapon costs most($1200+224+300 for AA12+HS+katana, let alone that they usually need 20 extra shells for HS which costs $300.).
That's enough.

As a comparison, let's take a look at commando:

They fear FPs and SCs(No, we are not talking about PAT). They consists a small part of the enemy troops.
They are highest on ammo(750 rds).
Their weapon costs moderate($750+300+90 for SCAR+AK+MP7)

PS: Health bar means better performance on dark maps (such as bedlam), but let's just neglect it.

Commando ain't no weaker than support. Support is more likely a "Good for all" perk so they can handle any situation. But it's not the right way to use it as support*3+. Players think support strong cause they just handle everything. That is prejudice. KF is a coop game and support*6 means no coop. It ain't work like that.

PS again: If there are more than 3 support in the game,then continuity and husks will become a real problem!

 

[FSUBoo]

Support is not perfect. No weakness?

They fear FPs and SCs(No, we are not talking about PAT). They consists a small part of the enemy troops.

Supports fear FPs and Scrakes? Since when? I salivate the thought of facing a Fleshpound or a scrake. Reguardless of any of the combos which make both FPs and Scrakes a joke on any difficulty, I consider support to be the "heavy hitter" in Killing Floor, and have always felt like as someone that plays support frequently that I should be the one to take on Fleshpounds and Scrakes.

Please please please play with better supports than your supposed "pros" that you play with, and you will realize that all your assumptions about support are totally bogus.

 

[Utopia-Phoenix]

Supports fear FPs and Scrakes? Since when? I salivate the thought of facing a Fleshpound or a scrake. Reguardless of any of the combos which make both FPs and Scrakes a joke on any difficulty, I consider support to be the "heavy hitter" in Killing Floor, and have always felt like as someone that plays support frequently that I should be the one to take on Fleshpounds and Scrakes.

Please please please play with better supports than your supposed "pros" that you play with, and you will realize that all your assumptions about support are totally bogus.

Are you nuts? Read carefully please. It's commando who fear FPs and SCs.

Please don't cut a part of the paragraph and make it a problem. That's nuts.

 

[Aze]

Commando MUST be on F/A unless the target is far away(>= 30 meters). Going F/A is the only solution against large groups of trash.

Haha, no no no. That is so so so SOOOOO very wrong! It is way better to have it on semi and take quick precise shots and kill each enemy one by one rather than mindlessly spraying enemies so you waste bullets and run out of ammo after half the wave.

I recently played as a Commando on 6-man Suicidal (sure, not HoE, but the difference is minimal, headshots kill basicly just as fast) on Bedlam. You know what happened? We were camping in the left hallway (The L-shaped one) and i basicly killed everything by myself coming from both the midspawn and from "outside", with the exception of Fleshies and Scrakes. I had over 800 kills by the end of the game (The other guys basicly took care of the other entrance, the short part of the L).

How did i do that? By having the weapons (SCAR + AK) on semi-auto so i could headshot fast and precisely without the risk of inaccuracy. I even semishot most Sirens and Husks (aiming for the head) very fast, so the biggest problem we had was that the 2 Sharpshooters were kind of bored since i killed most things in the hallway The trick is to NEVER panic and don't use fullauto unless in absolute emergencies. So once again: Be calm, use semiauto 99% of the time and kill with precision rather than mindless spraying. That's how you rock with the Commando!

 

[Utopia-Phoenix]

Haha, no no no. That is so so so SOOOOO very wrong! It is way better to have it on semi and take quick precise shots and kill each enemy one by one rather than mindlessly spraying enemies so you waste bullets and run out of ammo after half the wave.

I recently played as a Commando on 6-man Suicidal (sure, not HoE, but the difference is minimal, headshots kill basicly just as fast) on Bedlam. You know what happened? We were camping in the left hallway (The L-shaped one) and i basicly killed everything by myself coming from both the midspawn and from "outside", with the exception of Fleshies and Scrakes. I had over 800 kills by the end of the game (The other guys basicly took care of the other entrance, the short part of the L).

How did i do that? By having the weapons (SCAR + AK) on semi-auto so i could headshot fast and precisely without the risk of inaccuracy. I even semishot most Sirens and Husks (aiming for the head) very fast, so the biggest problem we had was that the 2 Sharpshooters were kind of bored since i killed most things in the hallway The trick is to NEVER panic and don't use fullauto unless in absolute emergencies. So once again: Be calm, use semiauto 99% of the time and kill with precision rather than mindless spraying. That's how you rock with the Commando!

If that's your style, use M14 instead of assault rifles.

 

[Steeps]

They fear husks which consists a huge part of the enemy troops.

Husk cannons are predictable for the most part and fairly easy to dodge. Even with dodging you’re guaranteed to get hit by them quite a bit (you can only juke so much) but they don’t do too much damage and with a competent medic or a team that knows how to heal each other they aren’t much of a threat. They can pose a problem in berserker games (assuming no one has an xbow) and occasionally get that snipe off from across the map that kills someone with extremely low health, but when you have sirens, gorefasts and fleshpounds which can kill someone in a second they aren’t too threatening. Of course you occasionally get five of them spawning at once but that could be a problem even with sharpshooters.

They are low(at least relatively low) on ammo.

I never have ammo problems as support. You can carry 24kg worth of equipment, which is two shotguns plus a handcannon, katana/axe, m79, etc. As long as you aren’t wasting ammo firing at clots across the map there is more than enough. I’ll usually end wave 10 on HoE with 1/3 of my ammo remaining and I’m definitely not the best player around here.

Their weapon costs most($1200+224+300 for AA12+HS+katana, let alone that they usually need 20 extra shells for HS which costs $300.).

I guess, though I personally think the pump + hunting shotty do a much better job than the AA12 + another shotgun do. Even then I can usually afford an AA12 by wave 3-4 and a katana by 6 (which is when you'll start needing it).

PS: Health bar means better performance on dark maps (such as bedlam), but let's just neglect it.

I agree that is a nice benefit of playing commando. But don’t forget the flashlight conveniently located on one of the perked weapons of the support specialist.


Support gets extreme firepower, 24kg carrying capacity, the ability to solo any zed with minimal practice, eleven perked grenades, faster welding, and an unintentional speed boost with no downside to it. Support doesn’t struggle with the big zeds like commando and firebug does, it doesn’t struggle with trash like sharpshooter, it has plenty of close range protection unlike demolitions and while its loadout isn’t the cheapest it's still much cheaper than demolitions, and possibly xbow sharpshooter.

Is it game-breaking? Not at all, and I still enjoy playing support sometimes. While it isn’t the “perfect” perk, it is clearly the strongest in a non-zerker kitefest and if you’re only goal is to win there isn’t a reason not to have 3-4 supports in the game.

edit - About commando I pretty much always use the SCAR in semi-auto. I use the AK-47 in full auto for the zeds that spawn in my face, and if we have competent supports to protect me up close (and an opportunity to go demolitions for a wave) I'll sometimes use SCAR + M32. M32 with the commando's reload bonus is amazing. If you use the SCAR in full auto more than a couple times per wave you'll almost always run out of ammo around waves 9-10.

 

[scary ghost]

Support is not perfect. No weakness?
They fear husks which consists a huge part of the enemy troops.
They are low(at least relatively low) on ammo.
Their weapon costs most($1200+224+300 for AA12+HS+katana, let alone that they usually need 20 extra shells for HS which costs $300.).
That's enough.

You really should follow my advice from my earlier post before continuing.

Guess your support isn't really a pro then if he has the below opinions. Before you comment further on the perks, please first learn what they are capable of.

1. No competent support fears husks, even a group of them. Hunting shotgun plus shotgun penetration allows a support to wipe out multiple husks with 1 shot. Even if there is other stuff inbetween you and the husks, your shotgun penetration will let you kill everything between you and them and hurt them. Learn how to play the angles ad use the environment to dodge.
2. Stop wasting shells on single enemies. Use your katana.
3. AA12 is not needed to win 6 man HoE. Learn how to use the pump shotgun.

Your "pro" support really isn't that great. Start playing with better supports before you form an opinion about said perk.

PS again: If there are more than 3 support in the game,then continuity and husks will become a real problem!

Wrong again. Only 2 supports max should be shooting in the same direction and the others should stay back and cover flanks and heal. When the 2 up front are low on ammo, they swap with the supports in the back. Learn how to effectively deal with husks as support and work as a team. It's not hard.

 

[sph34r]

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/palooka.htm

 

[outofrealman]

Hell... using full auto doest mean you have to spary bullets.... You can still tap your mouse to head shot whoever you want.

Also, supprot require PERFET shot for scrakes if the team bad enough to force you to deal with them alone. And if any gorefast/bloat/sirens/fps/husks is around, best case is you are seriously hurt. It's never a cake action like somebody want to make it sound. Yes, if that scrake is alone, nothing around, then yeah. But that's just unlikely to happen.

 

[Pendragon]

Also, supprot require PERFET shot for scrakes if the team bad enough to force you to deal with them alone. And if any gorefast/bloat/sirens/fps/husks is around, best case is you are seriously hurt. It's never a cake action like somebody want to make it sound. Yes, if that scrake is alone, nothing around, then yeah. But that's just unlikely to happen.

I'd Disagree with you on that point if you are in a position where you need solo a scrake chances are your team-mates aren't shooting it. Which gives you the option of clearing any trash with a hunting shotgun before engaging the scrake without the scrake raging from the pellets that do hit it. It also doesn't exactly take very long to send the scrake flipping back.

 

[outofrealman]

Even if you clear everything you can see, then take out katana > run up to that scrake's face > altfire with katana > pull out hunting shotgun > aim and shoot, gorefast and crawlers and stalkers is fast enough to hit you before you land the killing blow to the scrake. They are just there everytime.

So, no, supprot do need teamates. They either have to hel pshooting the scrake or keep the other zeds away from you. If you dont run into trash zeds during the whole time you spent on a single scrake, consider yourself lucky. Or may be you are palying on wide opened maps.

 

[Elsea]

Even if you clear everything you can see, then take out katana > run up to that scrake's face > altfire with katana > pull out hunting shotgun > aim and shoot, gorefast and crawlers and stalkers is fast enough to hit you before you land the killing blow to the scrake. They are just there everytime.

So, no, supprot do need teamates. They either have to hel pshooting the scrake or keep the other zeds away from you. If you dont run into trash zeds during the whole time you spent on a single scrake, consider yourself lucky. Or may be you are palying on wide opened maps.

It really doesn't take all that long to kill a scrake using that method, because you don't really have that much time after you use the katana on it. Takes 1 to 2 seconds at best. Also, typically you would let it get near you just a tad to gauge the situation. By the time something else shows up, you would have killed it already.

And who said you wouldn't need teammates even with a support? I am assuming you're not soloing the whole wave by yourself. There are also camping spots with a backside that comes with relatively few spawns that a single support could cover like third floor foundry.

I've done games where it was one corridor to take care of and there were no sharpshooters nor demos. Only me as a support and a friend as the other support. The other people were random people as commandos or medics or firebugs. It becomes rough in the later stages, but you get plenty of opportunity to use the katana/HSG trick on scrakes since your teammates are presumably covering you, or you have used the penetrative power of your shotgun to kill things behind the scrake. You can even bring the scrake closer to you by first raging it with your shotgun. Don't have to run up to it at all if you can make it run up to you. Sometimes that's a wiser decision.

 

[=[PMC]= breakfast]

Useless

Useless

I have no idea what this discussion has in common with the thread-heading
I don't see any sense why buff ANY perk in killing floor... rather weaken something instead of buff anything.
If the team plays as a team i don't see any problem with a fp or a scrake.
(also not on HoE)

 

[Entangler]

This thread has been chasing its tail for a while now.

 

[timur]

This thread has been chasing its tail for a while now.

well, looking at the history of other support or 'X perk is OP' threads, that's a sign that everythings normal

 

[Rainydaykid]

Haha, no no no. That is so so so SOOOOO very wrong! It is way better to have it on semi and take quick precise shots and kill each enemy one by one rather than mindlessly spraying enemies so you waste bullets and run out of ammo after half the wave.

I keep my weapons on full auto all the time, and prefer it that way. I have no issues with ammo conservation. Some of the people I play with can mention that sometimes I'll skip a trader to get beer or coffee and not have any issues. Waves 1-5, I generally don't use more than 4-5 AK mags per wave, without the pup or SCAR, and kill just about everything I aim at.

Also, don't forget worse case, you do run out, you still have a 9mm and full ammo. 9mm is great with the reload speed buff, but I almost never use it as comm, because rifle ammo is only a little more expensive per mag.

 

[FSUBoo]

I keep my weapons on full auto all the time, and prefer it that way. I have no issues with ammo conservation. Some of the people I play with can mention that sometimes I'll skip a trader to get beer or coffee and not have any issues. Waves 1-5, I generally don't use more than 4-5 AK mags per wave, without the pup or SCAR, and kill just about everything I aim at.

Also, don't forget worse case, you do run out, you still have a 9mm and full ammo. 9mm is great with the reload speed buff, but I almost never use it as comm, because rifle ammo is only a little more expensive per mag.

I can't count on my fingers the number of times I've seen this outta you Rainy. Also, I'm just recently learning how to play commando effectively. I keep AK on full auto,and use SCAR at semi auto aiming and popping heads. I can toggle the SCAR to full auto quick to cripple a husk with a mag full of shots.

 

[Steeps]

Full auto with the SCAR is perfectly fine and it isn

 

[Blockbot]

I say that the difficulty for sharpshooter should be raised on lower levels. (need 2 and 3 headshots instead of just 1) and if you want to kill the fleshpounds with one shot you could use the m93r? (surly remember the name wrong) that awzm 50cal sniper rifle that you now can get it whitelisted mod.

 

[CandleJack]

I say that the difficulty for sharpshooter should be raised on lower levels. (need 2 and 3 headshots instead of just 1) and if you want to kill the fleshpounds with one shot you could use the m93r? (surly remember the name wrong) that awzm 50cal sniper rifle that you now can get it whitelisted mod.

Beretta 92FS and Barrett M99?