SS need some way to handle FP. Buff it or something.

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Entangler

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 12, 2009
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(I'm in a hurry and can't be arsed doing the multiple quote thing, but it should be fairly obvious to what I'm responding)

I keep going on about Crossbow-wielding Sharpshooters because this thread is primarily about Crossbow-wielding Sharpshooters. Who'd have thought?

You don't need two of them to kill FPs, it just works much better that way. As stated by others a single Handcannon bullet followed by three bolts will decap a Flesh Pound, and though I don't have the code to hand at the moment, my bet would be that the headless Flesh Pound would have little enough health left that the nearest Support Specialist could drop it with a double-barrel blast if it strayed too close before bleeding out. Teamwork wins again?

Crossbow Sharpshooters don't just sit there scratching their arses between Flesh Pounds; they're also very effective against Husks, Sirens and Scrakes, and though they aren't the best sweepers, their perked 9mms and Handcannons make them reasonably effective at all times.

Demolitions would be a lot less able to solo FPs if not for the double-hit bug experienced by M79 and M32 grenades (and possibly also LAW rockets but I'm not sure about that), though they are reasonably balanced anyway. Two Demolitions would be very effective against Flesh Pounds but pretty hopeless against Scrakes, and they have their own problems besides (smoke, needing lots of space).

Support Specialists would still be reasonably effective against Flesh Pounds if their own bugs were fixed and their grenade damage bonus removed, but a little less effective overall. They need some work anyway. More on that later when I'm not in a hurry.

Oh, and on the game's highest difficulty level, bad teams deserve to lose.
 

outofrealman

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 29, 2009
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Yeah, keep acting like headshoting is just as easy as doing a body shot. But it's not, at ANY level of skill. It is viable to kill bigs, so do a medic with katana. What about effectivness? How much ammo you used, money? How much TIME you need?

Work in pairs? Two demo or support then nothing able to get close if you stop blocking their shots.

And yeah, talk about low difficulties, they excists, so do MUTATORS like I said. You cant just make a game only good for you 10% people, and if you ask me, HoE is not hard at all. But fail teamates is always fail. Even if I can 1v100, what abt 200? 300?

The problem is some perks is underpower. And some zeds need buff. Not some random perk getting pick every patch being overpowered. Like I said, SS is first, then you make xbow totally not cost effective, now zerker, support. And demo next. Then may be ss come out on top again. Oh we have 7 perks? And most of the people dont even touch those perks.

Feel free to check my profile, I play all perks. The thing is, even you refuse to admit it, 90% of people just play the game for fun, and you know what? Hard or below is not fun at all. And HoE will become impossible if you nerf all the perks.
 
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Ibin.

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 18, 2010
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Yeah, keep acting like headshoting is just as easy as doing a body shot.

It isn't. However, it isn't hard at all. Especially in a game where ZEDS all take the same predictable path and never make any attempt to deviate from said path.

Have one good SS and one good Demo and you will win with any other perks, even 4 medics.
 
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outofrealman

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It isn't. However, it isn't hard at all. Especially in a game where ZEDS all take the same predictable path and never make any attempt to deviate from said path.

Have one good SS and one good Demo and you will win with any other perks, even 4 medics.


We are talking about xbow ss right? And even if you NEVER miss, (which is NEEDED on 90% of the maps for a xbow ss to kill fps), you suppose 4 medic can take care of everything? If so, really, no games will be losing.
 
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sph34r

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Jun 5, 2011
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We are talking about xbow ss right? And even if you NEVER miss, (which is NEEDED on 90% of the maps for a xbow ss to kill fps), you suppose 4 medic can take care of everything? If so, really, no games will be losing.

I think what bin said is pretty reasonable. The SS never has to deal with FPs because the demo will slaughter them. That leaves scrakes to the sharpshooter, and then husks to the medics. They can split up the trash pretty evenly, and the demo can use a LAR if it's a map like london or something.
 

poosh

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 6, 2011
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Demo is an ultimate FP killer, SS does same with Scrakes.
Two Demos can kill Scrake, but not as effective as one SS can.
Two Sharpies (with xbow), but not as effective as one Demo can.
Having 1 SS + 1 Demo could be perfect solution, excepting one big problem: Demo produces smoke. So sometimes team chooses to use only sharpies, sometimes - only demos. No matter what choice team makes, there should be at least 2 skilled big-zed killers in the full team (6 players) to win HoE without problems.
With exception for Supports, which can kill everything. But they are slightly overpowered imo.
 
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outofrealman

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Demo is an ultimate FP killer, SS does same with Scrakes.
Two Demos can kill Scrake, but not as effective as one SS can.
Two Sharpies (with xbow), but not as effective as one Demo can.
Having 1 SS + 1 Demo could be perfect solution, excepting one big problem: Demo produces smoke. So sometimes team chooses to use only sharpies, sometimes - only demos. No matter what choice team makes, there should be at least 2 skilled big-zed killers in the full team (6 players) to win HoE without problems.
With exception for Supports, which can kill everything. But they are slightly overpowered imo.


Finally "effectiveness" come to people's mind. Now, may I ask, WHY you want commando or firebug?

Even if we leave out supprot who can kill everything (demo can 6-hit scrakes too btw), demo and sharpshotoers kill trash as good as, if not better, then mando and supprot. Xbow is only better in scrakes suituation, LAR + M14 do well in all suituation.

And demo? Yeah, they kill everything in a area below scrake with 1-2 nade.
 

Utopia-Phoenix

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Mar 25, 2011
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Demo is an ultimate FP killer, SS does same with Scrakes.
Two Demos can kill Scrake, but not as effective as one SS can.
Two Sharpies (with xbow), but not as effective as one Demo can.
Having 1 SS + 1 Demo could be perfect solution, excepting one big problem: Demo produces smoke. So sometimes team chooses to use only sharpies, sometimes - only demos. No matter what choice team makes, there should be at least 2 skilled big-zed killers in the full team (6 players) to win HoE without problems.
With exception for Supports, which can kill everything. But they are slightly overpowered imo.

Support ain't no overpower. I'd use the word from the pro support of my team:

"I hate it when I have to take out scrakes! At least 12~15 AA12 shots are required before HS can blast it dead. That's nearly a full mag of AA12--if I can use it on trash, I can kill about 40~50 of them."

"I need to manage frags very carefully for FP's sake. 4, or even 6 is needed in emergency status. "

"I hate husks!! Even FP, touching my armour is top award for it. But husks can roast me to naking at a distance which beyond my guns' reach! I'd katana its bastard's head off its neck if I can see one close! ":p
 
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CandleJack

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Dec 2, 2009
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Support ain't no overpower. I'd use the word from the pro support of my team:

"I hate it when I have to take out scrakes! At least 12~15 AA12 shots are required before HS can blast it dead. That's nearly a full mag of AA12--if I can use it on trash, I can kill about 40~50 of them."

"I need to manage frags very carefully for FP's sake. 4, or even 6 is needed in emergency status. "

"I hate husks!! Even FP, touching my armour is top award for it. But husks can roast me to naking at a distance which beyond my guns' reach! I'd katana its bastard's head off its neck if I can see one close! ":p

I'm no pro at Support, but my friends qualify for that status.

The use 1 katana hit (either main or alt fire) to stun the Scrake, then Altfire the HS into his head from below. Dead.

For FPs they throw a nade, HS it and then throw 2-3 more nades at it.
Dead.

And your friend is a "pro", yet doesn't know this.

:(
 
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scary ghost

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 13, 2010
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Support ain't no overpower. I'd use the word from the pro support of my team:

Guess your support isn't really a pro then if he has the below opinions. Before you comment further on the perks, please first learn what they are capable of.

"I hate it when I have to take out scrakes! At least 12~15 AA12 shots are required before HS can blast it dead. That's nearly a full mag of AA12--if I can use it on trash, I can kill about 40~50 of them."

You don't need to use 12-15 AA12 shots before the HSG can kill a scrake. Learn how to safely kill scrakes with 1 alt fire HSG blast. Yes, it works on 6 man HoE.

"I need to manage frags very carefully for FP's sake. 4, or even 6 is needed in emergency status. "
You don't need 4 frags per fleshpound. Learn how to safely kill fleshpounds with 2 frags. If it is an emergency or you want to be on the safe side, learn how to kill with 3 frags. Yes, it works on 6 man HoE.

"I hate husks!! Even FP, touching my armour is top award for it. But husks can roast me to naking at a distance which beyond my guns' reach! I'd katana its bastard's head off its neck if I can see one close! ":p

Husks are supposed to annoy supports with range. However, there are plenty of ways to dodge the shots and safely approach a husk.
 
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FSUBoo

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 6, 2010
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Florida, US
Even without THIS:

Learn how to safely kill scrakes with 1 alt fire HSG blast. Yes, it works on 6 man HoE.

you can kill a 6 man HoE scrake with 3 pumps and an alt hunting blast if aimed correctly. So even without resorting to the "flinch" technique they are easy.
 
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poosh

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 6, 2011
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Finally "effectiveness" come to people's mind. Now, may I ask, WHY you want commando or firebug?
Tbh - for more challenge. In theory Commando should be very useful due to his superb trash cleaning abilities, but in real game every single time I realize team with Commando in becomes weaker on waves 7+ comparing with extra support or sharpie instead of Commando.
 

outofrealman

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 29, 2009
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Tbh - for more challenge. In theory Commando should be very useful due to his superb trash cleaning abilities, but in real game every single time I realize team with Commando in becomes weaker on waves 7+ comparing with extra support or sharpie instead of Commando.


Again, commando need to hit EVERY single head to met the effectiveness of demo or support. Demo and support can still kill 5 gorefasts in 1 second while blinded by sirens or husks. Commandos cannot. And even if nothing is preventing you from aiming, bodyshotting is still easier than head shots.

And for the fact that commando having two "basically the same" gun, it is quite boring to play commando. You dont need to think which weapon to use, because they do pretty much the same.

And about FB... they are only good on opened maps or maps which you can see the lower levels (bedlam/foundry) unless you buy 10 flammer and throw them on the ground.
 

Aze

Grizzled Veteran
Mar 19, 2010
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Again, commando need to hit EVERY single head to met the effectiveness of demo or support. Demo and support can still kill 5 gorefasts in 1 second while blinded by sirens or husks. Commandos cannot. And even if nothing is preventing you from aiming, bodyshotting is still easier than head shots.

And for the fact that commando having two "basically the same" gun, it is quite boring to play commando. You dont need to think which weapon to use, because they do pretty much the same.

And about FB... they are only good on opened maps or maps which you can see the lower levels (bedlam/foundry) unless you buy 10 flammer and throw them on the ground.

Commando ain't as bad as you make it out to be. The only time a Commando player will suck is if he/she uses the weapons on fullauto all the time. If the Commando is played as a "faster sharpshooter" (aka, all weapons on semi-auto and aiming for the heads as much as possible), you will have PLENTY of ammo to kick arse with, more so than either Supports and Demolitions can. Plus, the health-bar thing the Commando has is VERY, very useful, for example if you use a mic to call out if an enemy (like the FP or such) is low on health, it helps with aiming, even through smoke etc.

In fact, everytime i play with Support, i actually have more troubles killing trash than with Commando for some reason. Maybe because i don't play with Support as much. Or I'd guess it's cuz of Support's shorter range, while i can snipe really fast and efficiently with the Commando, in particular with the SCAR.

Any perk is as useful as the player can make it. And believe me; there is nothing more awesome to assist the team against the trash than a great Commando!

I do agreed however that the Commando weapons are a little bit too much like having two "basically the same" gun.
 

Steeps

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 14, 2010
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Again, commando need to hit EVERY single head to met the effectiveness of demo or support. Demo and support can still kill 5 gorefasts in 1 second while blinded by sirens or husks. Commandos cannot. And even if nothing is preventing you from aiming, bodyshotting is still easier than head shots.

But commandos can kill 4-5 gorefasts before they're in range of the support. When I play commando I'm pretty much always first on my team in kills. The only exceptions are when I'm watching another flank with less action or there is another commando present (where the person with the most kills would be up for grabs). Actually a support can spam from a distance but that would probably be a bad idea unless you have a bunch of backup shotguns waiting there for you. It really isn't hard to aim for the head when the zeds are basically walking straight at you. I'll often play commando up until wave 10 unless we need a demolitions or sharpshooter. There's nothing wrong with the perk post-wave 6.

I haven't played KF in about 4 weeks (though I want to start playing again!) but I just wish everyone would stick to their perk's designated role and learn the mechanics first before worrying about soloing the fleshpounds as firebug or whatever. That's great if you can do that, but I don't know how many people I've seen on HoE that can solo fleshpounds and scrakes and still make rookie mistakes. They still side strafe, heal themselves over their teammates, unload 8 AA12 rounds at a single clot 35m away, etc. If everyone does what their perk was designated to do I think the general win percentages would go up.

Either that or stack supports if you want to win. :p
 

sph34r

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 5, 2011
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Try playing with aimbotters. I play with friends and one of them aimbots. He kills everything. I literally don't have to shoot anything other than scrakes and husks and sirens (I'm the sharpshooter in this scenario).

Not actual aimbots. Or maybe he does, I can't really tell.
 

outofrealman

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 29, 2009
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If you have ammo problem with support... you should really consider the AA12, it give you MUCH more ammo. As long as you dont (and you should not) use it on ANY husk or above zeds. And when playing as demo, unless the WHOLE team suck enough to provide a lot of panic suituation, I never run out of ammo.


Oh, and I like it 100 times more to use full auto ak/SCAR and only fire one bullet at a time. So that when a siren suddenly show up, i can gun her down easily.

But still... support or demo is better. Even on bio lab, you kill several trash zed up to gorefasts at the far end of the hallway using shotguns. Not to mention if they are that far away, I have many more targets to shoot on HoE all the time. May be on farm, or mountain pass, I would say mando is better for bloat and below.

However, commando an FB is just unplayable on pub servers. 5 people cannot kill a single scrake because they RUN WITHOUT shoot. And 2 demo cannot kill a single fleshpound and one of them blow himself up, etc etc.

Want the game more fun? Buff FB and mando, and buff the zeds. Enough of the mindless nerfing. Like I said, simply spawn more bloats and make SGs cannot penetrate bloats, and remove the bonus damage of FPs from explosives.
 
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Utopia-Phoenix

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Commando ain't as bad as you make it out to be. The only time a Commando player will suck is if he/she uses the weapons on fullauto all the time. If the Commando is played as a "faster sharpshooter" (aka, all weapons on semi-auto and aiming for the heads as much as possible), you will have PLENTY of ammo to kick arse with, more so than either Supports and Demolitions can. Plus, the health-bar thing the Commando has is VERY, very useful, for example if you use a mic to call out if an enemy (like the FP or such) is low on health, it helps with aiming, even through smoke etc.

In fact, everytime i play with Support, i actually have more troubles killing trash than with Commando for some reason. Maybe because i don't play with Support as much. Or I'd guess it's cuz of Support's shorter range, while i can snipe really fast and efficiently with the Commando, in particular with the SCAR.

Any perk is as useful as the player can make it. And believe me; there is nothing more awesome to assist the team against the trash than a great Commando!

I do agreed however that the Commando weapons are a little bit too much like having two "basically the same" gun.

Commando MUST be on F/A unless the target is far away(>= 30 meters). Going F/A is the only solution against large groups of trash.

A qualified commando should NOT allow support to blow the trash zeds first. Due to the statistics of ARs are low on DPS and high continuity... Let the support save some shotgun ammo for emergency status.

A mag of AA12 may turn the situation around if something horrible happens. A SCAR cannot. That's the difference. Preserve the valueable shotgun shells on emergency.
 

Steeps

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 14, 2010
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Support is "better" because in the game's current form it is an overpowered perk with no weaknesses. This doesn't mean commando is useless.

Yes, if winning is your only objective it is wise to have 3-4 supports on a team. However, if someone wants to play commando there is nothing wrong with that, as a great commando is a very important member of any squad. There is a reason why as commando I'll end up with more kills than any support I'm playing with, and it's not because I'm some amazing player who is on a level above everyone else.
 
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