Squads, Maps, Weapons and factions

[KermitTheFrog]

Hey, just a few suggestions.
I noticed this as a flaw (that could be fixed in this game) in red orchestra 2 and rising storm that with all the amazing realistic mechanics that the games seemed more oriented towards running and gunning nearly no teamwork rather than he tactical teamwork filled warfare that made it so appealing. First the maps need to be larger (ITS NAM!) that place was friggin huge giving more player freedom to choose their own strategies and take tactics into their own hands, it was annoying to see the I could push the guns range past the draw distance. A great way to solve this would to make one gigantic seamless map with the two teams bases set on either side of the map for one example the VC have control of everything but the American base, the Americans then have to capture the VC bases and destroy VC caches, the VC would have to stage ambushes, set traps and launch offensives to regain lost land, the Americans could also be flown over the ambush area by a helicopter (please go back to RO1s method of vehicles if you have the "APC crewman" or "Helicopter crewman" that's now what you can be you can enter and exit as well) and launch a offensive from there, also allow the building of sandbags, foxholes, trenches and small bases as well in the combat zone (similar to SQUAD or Project Reality) make the map similar in size to project reality and SQUAD and make match times longer to accompany this. Onto teamwork please make squads creatable and give benefits to squads like kits (similar to project reality) where if I'm in a squad I can now be a sniper or a machine gunner (a lone man doesn't need to have a machine gun, a squad on the other hand does) and on the sniper make sure that there are sniper only squads creatable made up of a sniper and a spotter) Now one quick thing before I move on make sure the Australians are playable as say commenwealth forces, give them L1A1 SLRs and browning hi powers also make the ARVN playable on some maps. Now VOIP is one of the defining things in teamwork it allows squad leaders to strategise with their men and even spotters to work well with their sniper buddies, inserting something like direct chat from the ArmA series and or mumble from project reality that would help smooth out the way players work together and strategise. I'm nearly done just a few quick weapons suggestions I have to get off my chest these are not the only weapons they should have just the important ones.
American forces.
M16A1s with 20 round magazines and in some early war maps even the x- what're thing and beginning of the war maps could see the m14 in action.
1911a1s as secondary's of course maybe a revolver.
M40 sniper rifles for sniper classes of course.
And more.

NVA.
Soviet AK47s (no AKMs please) both collapsible and full stock variants, implement that however you wish, levelling system or something. And the Chinese Type 56s, both please not just one or the other with both you could press a button to attach a bayonet with the AK they draw and attach a bayonet with the Type 56 they just fold out the pre existing pig sticker bayonet, please apply this to all rifles.
Tokarevs as secondarys, captured 1911s.
Scoped mosins and civilian rifles for snipers.
And more.

VC
SKS Chinese and Russian (the difference is bayonets).
PPSH 41s, PPS 43s and more smgs.
Maybe a AK47 a captured m16 and or a captured m14.
Tokarevs as secondarys.

Commonwealth
L1A1 SLR with attachable bayonet.
As secondary browning hi power.
Parker Hale M82 as sniper rifle.
Owen gun for squad leaders/engineers/crewman.

That is all thanks and sorry for all the SQUAD and project reality references if that's a problem, other than red orchestra they're the only examples I know.

 

[LugNut]

I noticed this as a flaw (that could be fixed in this game) in red orchestra 2 and rising storm that with all the amazing realistic mechanics that the games seemed more oriented towards running and gunning nearly no teamwork

Well, yup. I'm not sure the devs want to change the gameplay design though. They did choose it to be like it is after all.

A complete overhaul of the Squad system would be needed.

- No more picking roles first, only have a Squad screen. Choose a squad and then your role.

- Make it EASY to see who's in your squad in game, to communicate to who's nearby (3D Voip), stay together (medic) and spawn back into your squad. In over a thousand hours, I've never seen a squad in RO2 actually maneuver and work together as a squad. One side work as a team? Yes, sure. A squad as a squad? No.

On that note, switch the Spawn on SL to a rallypoint system so instead of forcing a SL to hide and if he dies, eliminate any chance of a squad to regroup. Being able to drop a rally enables all squadmates INCLUDING the SL to respawn with their squadmates. Coupled with a medic, these two features enable a squad to stay together, stay alive and keep moving on the battlefield.

The game as it is now rewards players treating it like a series of one on one shootouts. Spawns are close to objectives, you can often spawn on a SL, there's no benefit to sticking with your squadmates if you can even find them. Just race into the cap, kill as many as you can, die respawn. If there were no spawn points, just rallys, you would be rewarded by staying with your squad, heals and a bunch of friendly weapons around you would help you avoid dying and a long walk back to the fight.

Unfortunately, I don't think larger PR sized maps will be possible due to the engine, or aircraft. It's old.

 

[KermitTheFrog]

Also, PBR boat gangs (apocalypse now) are a must have.

 

[Jean_Luc_Picard]

First the maps need to be larger (ITS NAM!) that place was friggin huge giving more player freedom to choose their own strategies and take tactics into their own hands, it was annoying to see the I could push the guns range past the draw distance. A great way to solve this would to make one gigantic seamless map

Please, no. You can't have bigger maps without a corresponding bigger teams. You can't just have a maximum of 32 players on both teams and expect to have a fair fight. There are several maps on RO2 and RS that are just too big to attack or defend effectively. And even if the developers up the maximum number of players, you would need a big enough player base to support it.

VC
SKS Chinese and Russian (the difference is bayonets).
PPSH 41s, PPS 43s and more smgs.
Maybe a AK47 a captured m16 and or a captured m14.
Tokarevs as secondarys.

The VC didn't use as much semi-auto and fully automatic weapons like the NVA used. They mainly used what they can scrounge, capture or hand me downs from the NVA. A lot of French, American, Soviet, Chinese, Japanese and German (from Soviet aid mainly) bolt actions and side arms with some semi and fully automatic weapons from those countries mixed in. You can write a whole book on all the arms used by the NVA and VC in the war. Nearly every communist country in the world sent them aid. The US sent the Vietminh guns to fight the Japanese in WWII and captured tons of Japanese arms when they left. The Vietminh captured a lot of French guns in their fight with them including a lot more American guns that we gave to the French. And then you add on even more American guns captured from South Vietnamese and American troops troops. But again, most of the more "modern" guns went to the NVA and by the time the VC were getting better weapons the VC pretty much ceased to exist. The NVA used them all up in the Tet offensive. Most of them killed.

Also, the difference between a Soviet SKS and Chinese SKS is not the bayonet. The first Soviet SKS' had spike bayonets and the first Chinese SKS' had blade bayonets.

 

[KermitTheFrog]

Please, no. You can't have bigger maps without a corresponding bigger teams. You can't just have a maximum of 32 players on both teams and expect to have a fair fight. There are several maps on RO2 and RS that are just too big to attack or defend effectively. And even if the developers up the maximum number of players, you would need a big enough player base to support it.

What I forgot to add in my post was that the engine is very powerful and that it could handle 50 v 50 like most other tactical shooters.

 

[KermitTheFrog]

The small player amount could be solved by boosting it up to 50 v 50 like most large scale tactical games.

 

[SWAT Pointman]

Hey, just a few suggestions.
I noticed this as a flaw (that could be fixed in this game) in red orchestra 2 and rising storm that with all the amazing realistic mechanics that the games seemed more oriented towards running and gunning nearly no teamwork rather than he tactical teamwork filled warfare that made it so appealing. First the maps need to be larger (ITS NAM!) that place was friggin huge giving more player freedom to choose their own strategies and take tactics into their own hands, it was annoying to see the I could push the guns range past the draw distance. A great way to solve this would to make one gigantic seamless map with the two teams bases set on either side of the map for one example the VC have control of everything but the American base, the Americans then have to capture the VC bases and destroy VC caches, the VC would have to stage ambushes, set traps and launch offensives to regain lost land, the Americans could also be flown over the ambush area by a helicopter (please go back to RO1s method of vehicles if you have the "APC crewman" or "Helicopter crewman" that's now what you can be you can enter and exit as well) and launch a offensive from there, also allow the building of sandbags, foxholes, trenches and small bases as well in the combat zone (similar to SQUAD or Project Reality) make the map similar in size to project reality and SQUAD and make match times longer to accompany this. Onto teamwork please make squads creatable and give benefits to squads like kits (similar to project reality) where if I'm in a squad I can now be a sniper or a machine gunner (a lone man doesn't need to have a machine gun, a squad on the other hand does) and on the sniper make sure that there are sniper only squads creatable made up of a sniper and a spotter) Now one quick thing before I move on make sure the Australians are playable as say commenwealth forces, give them L1A1 SLRs and browning hi powers also make the ARVN playable on some maps. Now VOIP is one of the defining things in teamwork it allows squad leaders to strategise with their men and even spotters to work well with their sniper buddies, inserting something like direct chat from the ArmA series and or mumble from project reality that would help smooth out the way players work together and strategise. I'm nearly done just a few quick weapons suggestions I have to get off my chest these are not the only weapons they should have just the important ones.
American forces.
M16A1s with 20 round magazines and in some early war maps even the x- what're thing and beginning of the war maps could see the m14 in action.
1911a1s as secondary's of course maybe a revolver.
M40 sniper rifles for sniper classes of course.
And more.

NVA.
Soviet AK47s (no AKMs please) both collapsible and full stock variants, implement that however you wish, levelling system or something. And the Chinese Type 56s, both please not just one or the other with both you could press a button to attach a bayonet with the AK they draw and attach a bayonet with the Type 56 they just fold out the pre existing pig sticker bayonet, please apply this to all rifles.
Tokarevs as secondarys, captured 1911s.
Scoped mosins and civilian rifles for snipers.
And more.

VC
SKS Chinese and Russian (the difference is bayonets).
PPSH 41s, PPS 43s and more smgs.
Maybe a AK47 a captured m16 and or a captured m14.
Tokarevs as secondarys.

Commonwealth
L1A1 SLR with attachable bayonet.
As secondary browning hi power.
Parker Hale M82 as sniper rifle.
Owen gun for squad leaders/engineers/crewman.

That is all thanks and sorry for all the SQUAD and project reality references if that's a problem, other than red orchestra they're the only examples I know.

While the majority of AK's used in the Vietnam War were Chinese Type 56's, AKM's were used.

 

[KermitTheFrog]

While the majority of AK's used in the Vietnam War were Chinese Type 56's, AKM's were used.

That's a ak47 isn't it?

 

[Jean_Luc_Picard]

The small player amount could be solved by boosting it up to 50 v 50 like most large scale tactical games.

Again, you would need a big enough player base to support it. Right now, it's just a couple of full servers at a time from what I see. Granted, there will be a lot more players once the game comes out, but it drops off steadily.

 

[mrsirr]

That's a ak47 isn't it?

One on top looks like an AKMS, bottom one looks like an AK. But I can't recognize the Chinese variants.

 

[LugNut]

What I forgot to add in my post was that the engine is very powerful and that it could handle 50 v 50 like most other tactical shooters.

What engine? UE3? With jungle foliage? Doubtful.

While I like large scale maps and lots of players, you'd need both a better system to communicate and command that many players and the community who wants to use it. Otherwise, it'd be a mob scene at every cap negating the need to do anything but RnG rush.

 

[Jagdwyre]

That's a ak47 isn't it?

AKM's had stamped receivers while true AK47s had a milled receiver. You can spot the difference by the dimple right above the magazine well, it being a telltale sign it's a stamped receiver as seen on the top AK in the photo. Milled receivers have a slot cut(or milled) into the receiver above the magazine well which you can see on the bottom AK.

The reason original AK47s had a milled receiver was because when they started production of the weapon they had not perfected the stamping process yet. Stamping the receiver allows the weapon to be a little lighter and more cost effective to build.

Personally though I think the type 56 is pretty much one of the best versions of the AK47 ever made.