Squads and Spawn selection.

[Zetsumei]

Now I assume most people know Schutzesepp's spawn system that is used in DH. Where you can basically select your spawn and fight on multiple sides of the battle. The ability to select spawns could really help in a lot of maps to make the game play more unexpected. Especially as most of the time players take the shortest route to the combat, having multiple spawns could allow some more diversity in the paths taken.*

However with the system used in DH the are some issues, you teleport to a different location meaning that you loose your spawn protection. The spawn selection method seems a bit like a waste of time at times, and feels odd. You often become slightly disoriented when you spawn not knowing where exactly you are.*

My suggestion is to utilize the spawn selection system that can be found in UT3 conquest which makes selecting a spawn easy understandable and streamlined. But rather than picking just a place to spawn, you basically pick a squad to spawn with. Where the spawn locations for said squad get selected either by progression of the map or by selection of the squad leader. This will keep squads easier together as they spawn somewhat away from other players, and will reduce the clutter in communication.

For those that do not know it this is how it works in UT3, simply selecting spawn through the overhead map (it pops up if you wait for 5 seconds after you die, and pressing fire after you died just spawns you with the same guys as before).

YouTube - Unreal Tournament 3 spawn selection

Logically the mappers decide what spawns in what situation a squad leader could select to spawn at. Aka the full control stays at the mapper, so balance can be ensued.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

support for this as well........if RS ends up with DH teleports, i will be extremely disappointed.

a similar spawn selection system like the UT one in the video zets provided was used in the original BF1942 games as well as in the Star Wars Battlefront games.

YouTube - Let's Play Battlefield 1942 - Episode 13 - Berlin 1/1

YouTube - Star Wars Battlefront 1 Galactic Civil War Stage 2 "Siege of Mos Eisley"

you can see in the bf1942 video how as they team captures more objectives, the player is able to select from a couple spawn locations. the star wars video in the beginning and later at the end you can see that same type of spawn system. something else i'd like to point out about te bf1942 system is how upon death not only can you see the available classes to choose from if you'd like to switch (like some other games), but you also select your next spawn location every time you die.

 

[LemoN]

Please no spawn selections via map.
I hated that in the BF series.

Anyway, +1 for Zets' suggestion.

 

[PsYcH0_Ch!cKeN]

Just FYI, you didn't lose spawn protection when going through the teleporter on any official maps. I created a specific DH version of the teleport entity that provided the same invulnerability as when you freshly spawned. You would only experience problems if you played a custom map where it wasn't used.

 

[Zetsumei]

My apologies then, I had multiple encounters on different maps where an MG shot me right in the teleportation area that I thought there was no way to have spawnprotection.

However there are still multiple convenience factors why I would like to see a different system in how to select spawn. I love the ability to select spawn in DH but I think the entire system could be more polished and user friendly.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

Please no spawn selections via map.

Anyway, +1 for Zets' suggestion.

but, that essentially is his suggestion......

just in case you didn't read it the first time:

My suggestion is to utilize the spawn selection system that can be found in UT3 conquest which makes selecting a spawn easy understandable and streamlined. But rather than picking just a place to spawn, you basically pick a squad to spawn with. Where the spawn locations for said squad get selected either by progression of the map or by selection of the squad leader. This will keep squads easier together as they spawn somewhat away from other players, and will reduce the clutter in communication.

For those that do not know it this is how it works in UT3, simply selecting spawn through the overhead map (it pops up if you wait for 5 seconds after you die, and pressing fire after you died just spawns you with the same guys as before).

am i missing something?

the only thing he added was instead of just selecting a specific location, you'd be selecting a squad to spawn with in that specific location

 

[LemoN]

but, that essentially is his suggestion......

just in case you didn't read it the first time:



am i missing something?

the only thing he added was instead of just selecting a specific location, you'd be selecting a squad to spawn with in that specific location

The way I read it was that you would select a squad to spawn with. And I disregarded the rest as hate/rage for BF spawn system.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I'm unaware of the UT3 system, but...

I think the biggest problem with the DH system is that at times when you teleport, you are dropped right into an area where you can be shot without moving one step. To me, that is more of a map design problem, and sometimes a big one. You shouldn't teleport into a postion in view of the enemy in such a vulnerable state. Overall I honestly really do like it (the DH system, I used a variation of it in my MN-Gazala Line map) as it allows for larger maps with less travel distance for those spawning to get into battle, not to mention the ability to funnel reinforcements to an area where they are needed the most, that is to say if players are paying attention to the chat and suggestions of the squad leader...

~edit: Just reread Psycho Chicken's response. Perhaps it is those custom maps in DH where I have seen a problem. I don't want to confuse those with the official versions; sorry

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

The way I read it was that you would select a squad to spawn with. And I disregarded the rest as hate/rage for BF spawn system.

yup, and the way he proposed to select that squad (and the linked spawn location) was through your map.

out of curiosity lemon, why exactly do you hate that spawn system? is it just selecting from a map or other reasons? like i personally never cared for the way that spawn locations moved around all over such a wide open map which could lead to spawn rape, and teams having rediculous lines of attack etc... but i liked the way in which you selected your spawn location/squad through the overhead map (selection screen). that's the only thing i'm highlighting as a good thing for HOS to use.

as with DH teleports......they were nice for seperating armour/infantry spawns and reducing the amount of distance to travel. however for me it killed immersion (i walk through a door that leads me to the battlefield.....what's this the cronicles of narnia? there magical wardrobes here? ). additionally as previously pointed out, spawn rape tends to happen alot as the enemey will see the exact spawn "exits" and on many maps there's no protection or minefields to keep people from abusing this problem. this problem does exist in stock maps, not just customs....so if you're going to pin the blame on the mappers instead of the system, you'd have to include the people who created the stock maps. since i've not played much DH recently, i'll go refresh myself with the maps to point out examples if you want

 

[Zetsumei]

Where to select your squad could be done in the regular class selection menu as well. I like it on the overhead map as it could illustrate some things clearly, but where you select your squad is not the core of the suggestion.

I'll talk a bit about how I envisioned it to be like (but there are thousands of interpretations that could work, and I like the DH spawn selection system a lot more than having no choice at all):

Visually I envisioned the squad selection to look something like this (logically you wouldn't know where the enemy would exactly be coming from):

Where basically every arrow on the overhead map represents a squad that is fighting (the mapper would basically define the max amount of squads / minimal % player size per squad). Where in this situation a player could join a squad by clicking on an arrowhead that belongs to the advancement of a squad. So you instantly know what squad you're joining and where in the world that squad is fighting.

And my idea was that the squad leader could basically select out of a few possible paths/spawns made available by the mapper which path/spawn his squad will take.

Using the overhead map like this gives newer players an idea of how many different squads are fighting currently for his team and at what location. Together with instantly seeing where his own squad is being deployed. You could probably compare it to a quick mission briefing.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Ahhh. It does have possibilities, I think I like this idea. This way if you have found a group of players you are working well with, you can stick with them if you so choose.

Just one thing, if something like that were used, it would be nice if it was an option where a player has a choice to disassociate himself from a squad if he feels that the squad or squad leader wasn't working right.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

hmmmm, perhaps the squad could just vote out to replace their squad leader and not have to find a new squad

 

[Zetsumei]

the entire process of selecting a squad leader or the abilities would be open for discussion and in this stage are irrelevant to the base suggestion.

Heck rather than a squad leader selecting a location, it could be that the entire group forming a squad together simply votes for a spawn democratically. That way nobody can ever get any power hungry dick head as a squad leader.

 

[Nimsky]

At first I was like "meh", but then I saw this pic and I agree, it would be nice.

Theoratically you respawn as a new soldier (otherwise it wouldn't be called reinforcements), so why not be able to choose which 'division' you spawn in? It even makes sense from a realism point of view because almost every military attack consists of attacks from two or more directions. And if a certain objective is very difficult to attack, the commander usually chooses to reinforce it with the troops stationed closest to that objective.

So yeah, +1 for this idea. Hopefully Tripwire takes note.

Visually I envisioned the squad selection to look something like this (logically you wouldn't know where the enemy would exactly be coming from):

 

[Ralfst3r]

If each 'division' has a certain amount of slots, it would be a nice suggestion. You don't want 1 huge division going for the same objective, while the rest of the objectives are not looked at.

Also, maybe if you are in a certain division, you get more points for capping/destroying your main objective, and less points if you assist in a diffirent objective. That way ppl don't wander around the map, and It could get ppl to play more team oriented.

 

[Xendance]

It really depends on the map design. Even with selectable spawns, I don't think a level designer (nor me) would want to spread the action too far out, so the objectives and map layout are laid out accordingly.

 

[reyalpOR]

Divisions? How many people are going to be playing on this server!? hehe

 

[LemoN]

divisions? How many people are going to be playing on this server!? Hehe

>9000

 

[husbert]

officer should select spawns for his men

for example 2 spawnareas A and B
and he thinks that A needs more help he simply changes the % for A, A=70% B=30%

 

[LemoN]

officer should select spawns for his men

for example 2 spawnareas A and B
and he thinks that A needs more help he simply changes the % for A, A=70% B=30%

You can't give such responsibilities to a 11 year old.