• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

Squads and Firefights - More Details

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Sort by date Sort by votes
#41
I've generally been a lone player unless I was an SL or TL. I play that way because it benefited me (fun) and benefited the team (killing half of the opposing team while my team killed the other half). There are those who say that playing in a squad/as a team is the only good way to ensure victory, but that's simply not true when one or two players kill half the other team with no problem. In fact, it is often just the opposite when a member of my squad spawns near me and fires randomly into the trees, giving a way my position. I'm not going to get into a debate about whether squad play is more effective than being rambo since I've seen both being very effective. I'm not saying I never play in a squad since a squad with Good squad-mates will destroy the enemy team no problem. However, I will say that if there is a penalty for not being in a squad, my interest in RS2 will lessen significantly.

I've greatly enjoyed RO2 and RS, and I'm definitely excited for RS2. Great work Tripwire!
 
Upvote 0
#42
AngryKoala said:
I've generally been a lone player unless I was an SL or TL. I play that way because it benefited me (fun) and benefited the team (killing half of the opposing team while my team killed the other half). There are those who say that playing in a squad/as a team is the only good way to ensure victory, but that's simply not true when one or two players kill half the other team with no problem. In fact, it is often just the opposite when a member of my squad spawns near me and fires randomly into the trees, giving a way my position. I'm not going to get into a debate about whether squad play is more effective than being rambo since I've seen both being very effective. I'm not saying I never play in a squad since a squad with Good squad-mates will destroy the enemy team no problem. However, I will say that if there is a penalty for not being in a squad, my interest in RS2 will lessen significantly.

I've greatly enjoyed RO2 and RS, and I'm definitely excited for RS2. Great work Tripwire!
Click to expand...
Agree
 
Upvote 0
#43
AngryKoala said:
I've generally been a lone player unless I was an SL or TL. I play that way because it benefited me (fun) and benefited the team (killing half of the opposing team while my team killed the other half). There are those who say that playing in a squad/as a team is the only good way to ensure victory, but that's simply not true when one or two players kill half the other team with no problem. In fact, it is often just the opposite when a member of my squad spawns near me and fires randomly into the trees, giving a way my position. I'm not going to get into a debate about whether squad play is more effective than being rambo since I've seen both being very effective. I'm not saying I never play in a squad since a squad with Good squad-mates will destroy the enemy team no problem. However, I will say that if there is a penalty for not being in a squad, my interest in RS2 will lessen significantly.

I've greatly enjoyed RO2 and RS, and I'm definitely excited for RS2. Great work Tripwire!
Click to expand...
Why would you not want to be part of a squad(as in at least put into one)? In RO2 and RS you're always in a squad no matter what since every role is attached to a certain position in a certain squad. If fact I'm willing to bet you didn't mind being in a squad even if you played "solo" for the simple fact that a good squad leader would often give you advantageous spawn locations to allow you get where you want to be quicker.

Anyway, I doubt they'll want to make people who want to stalk about solo feel useless even if they want to incentivize squad teamwork. I would think it's less about penalizing solo players and simply making actual cohesive squad play easier to do and more rewarding.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
#44
Jagdwyre said:
Why would you not want to be part of a squad(as in at least put into one)? In RO2 and RS you're always in a squad no matter what since every role is attached to a certain position in a certain squad. If fact I'm willing to bet you didn't mind being in a squad even if you played "solo" for the simple fact that a good squad leader would often give you advantageous spawn locations to allow you get where you want to be quicker.

Anyway, I doubt they'll want to make people who want to stalk about solo feel useless even if they want to incentivize squad teamwork. I would think it's less about penalizing solo players and simply making actual cohesive squad play easier to do and more rewarding.
Click to expand...

Often enough, squad leaders would choose poor places to spawn their squad, either allowing the enemy to ambush our position or disallowing our own team to move on the enemy in a timely fashion. Sometimes, as you said, there are good squad leaders, in which case I enjoy being in a squad, but sometimes that does not happen. To be more clear, I am not advocating not being in a squad, but rather that playing solo while being a part of a squad can be advantageous to a player and a team. Practically, this would look like me running fast to the left or the right as soon as I spawned so I wouldn't be placed in the group of typical fodder. It is a style of play that I speak of rather than features of the game itself, so whether there are squads or not, or whether I choose to join one or not, I want to play the way I feel suits me and my team best.

I would enjoy improvements to the squad-based gameplay so that there is a genuine advantage to being in a squad regardless of the skill level of your teammates.
 
Upvote 0
#45
Anyway, I doubt they'll want to make people who want to stalk about solo feel useless even if they want to incentivize squad teamwork. I would think it's less about penalizing solo players and simply making actual cohesive squad play easier to do and more rewarding.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'd imagine it'll end up like this. It'll be interesting to see if the community takes advantage of it or if we still see a team of individuals on pub servers.
 
Upvote 0
#46
There is always the assymetrical bit...

NVA and US military with carrots for fuller squad organization.

South Vietnamese and Viet Cong considered irregulars with different carrots and not so much squad organization perks (or smaller perks at 3-5 men teams).

Or something like that.

Choice of map then determining the degree of carrots for organizing and letting lone wolves influence their fighting environment through the power of the vote (they would appropriately vote for maps with less emphasis on fixed order battles, and chose a side with less emphasis on fixed order of battle).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
#48
LionbI4 said:
Will I be able to revive my squad members in some form?
Medics? Stop bleeding of squad members?
Click to expand...

Every time we make a new game in the RO franchise we talk about medics. And there always seems to be more reasons not to have them that outweigh any benefits. Vietnam does change things up a bit as the dedicated combat medic roll was becoming more of a standard in western forces.

We have some ideas on the topic that we may explore in the future but for now it is not something we are actively pursuing.
 
Upvote 0
#49
They greatly help squad cohesiveness if respawn times are longer, distances to travel are greater or if being dead is generally more painful than it is currently. For example, if there was no spawn on SL, or only fixed spawns at an initial point and deployable after that. They work great in ARMA, PR and Squad, but those are far different games.

A medic in game now would be underutilized I think except to keep a SL alive and keep that eternal respawn machine going. I don't think people worry about saving tickets all that much either.
 
Upvote 0
#52
Yoshiro said:
Every time we make a new game in the RO franchise we talk about medics. And there always seems to be more reasons not to have them that outweigh any benefits. Vietnam does change things up a bit as the dedicated combat medic roll was becoming more of a standard in western forces.

We have some ideas on the topic that we may explore in the future but for now it is not something we are actively pursuing.
Click to expand...

hi Yoshiro, thanks for reply.
Your new game looks promising (weapon handling and squad system my favorite).
Please take a look on Squad game, which has medics in the right way.
The most important and useful thing with medic is: it allows your squad to play together. Without medics - fallen comrades are respawning and they have to play alone from that moment.
This is one of the reasons why we don't play Red orchestra anymore, but playing other games, which allows friends to play together.
Ability friends to play together greatly increases virality of the game and increases revenew as a result.

Another cool system in Squad is Waypoint system (squad leader can put a waypoint if there are no enemies in 50m range). Waypoint allows 10 respawns of your squad members. Which also helps to keep your squad members nearby.
 
Upvote 0
#53
I don't like how respawning on a squad leader works in RO.
Its hard to get into 1 squad with all friends. Sometimes squad leader dies before squad members and your squad is broken.
Not to mention, how people are appearing on the battlefield. They just appear from air in the middle of the field and can get shot in 1 second. Frustrating.
 
Upvote 0
#54
Hi Yoshiro, your answer to whether the inclusion of a rally point system will be in game would be much appreciated and it would greatly help me being persuaded into buying this game (as it's the only game mechanic feature I'm looking forward to really after I've played PR/Squad). I've found the rally point that is in Squad as a much more intuitive way of advancing with your squad and watching casualties closely (as loss of men is factored into victory title) rather than the old static spawn system and running straight into capzones wave-style.

So will you please include the rally point/waypoint system? Not only helps squad cohessiveness, it makes combat more fun and unpredictable with tactical infantry firefights and a lot of unexpected engagements with enemy squads stumbling upon your squad.

And with the rally point system the game then is more orientated into watching reinforcements tickets wastage and moving with your squad in a slow, methodical fashion, rather than the old wave-spawn system from the fixed, stationary spawn point.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
#56
I've found people saying no to a rally point and often without even any proper explanation haven't really given it a try or enough time to really see the benefits of it and how it works. It's basically almost as if you're spawning on a squad leader but not right on top of him where you can easily exploit the battle by spawning close to the enemy.

It forces SLs to actually think about their movement and positioning instead of walking straight inside an objective and start pouring players into it which is an exploitation really.

Think of it as if "evolving" concept from spawning right on top of a SL. It's what actually made the mod Project Reality really popular and the player base becoming even larger than the paid BF2 expansion packs combined and the most played BF2 mod, by a factor of 5x.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
#57
It means squad leaders with superior weaponry and equipment don't have to worry about not dying anymore. Becuase they have placed their spawn point somewhere else. They don't gotta worry about anything with rally points. The battlefields are smaller in this style of game. So you aren't gonna get a super close spawn. Besides. You can never spawn in the cap zone and you never spawn in Line of sight of an enemy with the current system.

Also project reality was free to play. You didn't even need to own battlefield 2 to play it. But it's playerbase was smaller than RO2s. And by that I mean it was dead down in Oceania. I could only play it on certain days of the week when people organised events. Not like in RO2 where I can boot the game up and find a game with under 100 ping anyday.

Rally points make the squad leader far less important plane and simple. By the fact that he doesn't need to be alive anymore.
 
Upvote 0
#58
Lemonater47 said:
plane and simple.
Click to expand...

It might seem "plane" to you but actually you are wrong that Squad Leader in Squad/PR doesn't have to worry about dying. If you knew how it works then you'd know how often the whole squad loses its forward position (and its rally point) after Squad Leader got shot and being unable to put a new rally point.

Mods are generally less unheard of than established paid products (especially that PR not even being on steam for the fact) so it's obvious it would've been smaller than RO2. Still more popular than all other mods combined. So PR which is a mod isn't as popular but it's ignorant of you to say that it's dead. There are always full servers and content is still being developed.

It means squad leader isn't some kind of god on the battlefield that unfairly grants players a quick jump back into a hot spot.

Also it means Squad Leaders are not occupied at hiding in the corners in order to pour players into a capzone in order to cap it. In the game Squad/PR there is more importance about watching advantageous parts of terrain and reducing number of enemy rather than unrealistic getting inside the capzone behaviour in RO2.

And also turning gameplay into "hunting" for the enemy squad leaders. Yes in real life they were of an importance but in terms of "tactical situation" and leadership, not an out-of-nowhere reincarnation of players right into a HOT ZONE.

Spawning inside the capzone shouldn't be happening because it abuses the gameplay.

Rally point spawns players back into a safe spot away from the battle so it actually combines the element of a static spawn point which you have to run from in order to get back to the hot spots of where the fighting is.

It doesn't abuse the gameplay where you can quickly spawn back and eliminate the enemy that just has killed you.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
#59
Rally points make the squad leader far less important plane and simple. By the fact that he doesn't need to be alive anymore.
Click to expand...

:p

The importance changes from staying alive to be a mobile spawn point to placing a mobile spawn point and then actually being free to manage/lead the squad. Hopefully, your SL will be an experienced player who can utilize his knowledge of the map, gameplay and think on their feet to lead his squad. "Let's flank C on the west!" "MG suppress while we move into the cap!" "We'll rush in after the arty" Simple things like that. I know this is a much faster and smaller scale game than Squad/PR, but having a SL lead, still works. I was in a COD2 era clan where we used to play that way using TS on much smaller maps than these. It sounds like it might be possible with the coming changes to the UI/communication system.

A deployable spawn point function could be adjusted to suit, it could have a time limit, spawn limit, undeployable too close to Caps, destroyed if enemy gets close, physically destroyable etc.

And as always, players could choose where they spawn and also spawn and run off to do their own thing if they want.
 
Upvote 0
#60
Guys I support you greatly with waypoint system.
It is really supperior over spawning on SL.
When played as SL in RO2 I found the best tactic to hide somewhere near objective to allow my squad spawn on me and rush to the objective.
When played Squad - Squad leader can spawn on its own waypoint.
Enemy team can come to waypoint and remove it.
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply
Jump to latest Follow Reply
Community News
Forums
Merch
Menu