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Squad system is terrible

smokeythebear

Grizzled Veteran
Nov 21, 2005
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I don't understand why TW would take something that works well from battlefield but implement it so it's barely functional. The same can be said of a lot of RO2s game mechanics but the squad system I think is the worst example.

Here is why;

-Spawning on the squad leader will often throw you into the middle of the open. Even if the SL is safe in a second story of a building you get put in the middle of the ****ing street.
-The setup of squads is terrible. Just have squads that you can join regardless of weapon class. There is zero need to have psuedo realism in joining a squad because noone in a public game is ever going to play like that. When making a realism match people will be able to set up squads how they like so it's really just a stupid terrible feature.
-What is the logic of having a rifle only squad? To add more rifles to the game? It just adds another squad leader with a semi or automatic. Whatever happened to 70+% of soldiers in ww2 having bolts?

-I forgot another huge issue is it's not clear if your SL is alive to spawn on or not and sometimes you will just end up in the normal spawn regardless.

These are not even bugs or whatever, just bad design decisions that make me frustrated with the direction TW took with RO2.
 
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/agree just from the title.

The only real good thing I see coming from squads (even in a competitive match) is to use the leader as a spawn beacon.

That's the only good thing, but when it does actually work, it works badly. They really need to reward you more for moving around as a squad. The only teamplay elements I've seen so far are resupplying a guy with an MG, and half the time you do that he's just spawned and has full ammo...
 
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I don't understand why TW would take something that works well from battlefield but implement it so it's barely functional. The same can be said of a lot of RO2s game mechanics but the squad system I think is the worst example.

Here is why;

-Spawning on the squad leader will often throw you into the middle of the open. Even if the SL is safe in a second story of a building you get put in the middle of the ****ing street.


These are not even bugs or whatever, just bad design decisions that make me frustrated with the direction TW took with RO2.

That's definitely the worst part of the squad leader system. It makes no sense that you spawn far away from the squad leader. When you choose to spawn on him you should spawn right next to him, not out in the street like you said.
 
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Oh that spawn on the street thing.. happened a million times on Barracks.
SL is safely camping teh enemy held NCO barracks 2nd floor and I spawn outside and have to run thru 3 dudes to get to him. Or I camp a long street with a MG on same map and suddenly a very confused guy appears infront of me, pewpew, he's dead.

Thats just as bad as multiplying people in BC2, getting funny double kills cuz of uber close spawn is better than spawning in the middle of a street.
 
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my biggest issue is that in general you dont even know who you are in a squad with. And next to that the entire squad spawns all over the level.

It would make more sense to me in a respawn based game such as RO if it would just automatically form squads based on who are close to you so you can make on the fly tactics. Perhaps take the squadleaders and the players closest to said squadleader automatically belong to his squad.

Currently the squad system could be completely removed and nobody would notice it. It got exactly 0% effect on game play, which is too bad as I hoped that it would be one of the things that would improve public game play.
 
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Oh that spawn on the street thing.. happened a million times on Barracks.
SL is safely camping teh enemy held NCO barracks 2nd floor and I spawn outside and have to run thru 3 dudes to get to him. Or I camp a long street with a MG on same map and suddenly a very confused guy appears infront of me, pewpew, he's dead.

Thats just as bad as multiplying people in BC2, getting funny double kills cuz of uber close spawn is better than spawning in the middle of a street.

Well at least the Squad based gameplay works perfectly in Bad Company 2. Sticking with your squad is something that happens naturally.
 
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Perhaps we could have a server option to have squads spawn together as a mandatory thing. The SL picks one of a few spawns to spawn at, and his whole squad appears there. If the SL is alive, you spawn on him, and if he dies the remaining team has to hold out until they are "reenforced" by a new squad (i.e. their SL catches up to them).

I don't know, might be a real pain in the ***, but I'm desperate for more cohesive teamplay at this point.
 
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-Spawning on the squad leader will often throw you into the middle of the open. Even if the SL is safe in a second story of a building you get put in the middle of the ****ing street.

Agreed. The spawn system needs a lot of work, even getting spawned in the next room over can make it hard to find your squad leader before he disappears. You take a few seconds to get oriented and even if you don't get killed from being spawned in the open, it can still be hard to link up.

It's sometimes easier to spawn at one of the main points and move to the SL rather than trying to spawn on him. I will point out though that that is partially caused by squad leaders who don't know what they are doing. They rush to the very front line and get in gun battles forgetting that people are trying to spawn on them, causing them to be spawned all over the place.

Squad leaders are not meant to be leading the charge - they are meant to be hanging back and acting as the spawn point and liason with the commander for arty ets. They are not assault troops. Maybe the SL's should only get a pistol. That will make them hang back a bit. Of course few people would play as them, but at least it would be the guys who know what they are doing.

The setup of squads is terrible. Just have squads that you can join regardless of weapon class. There is zero need to have psuedo realism in joining a squad because noone in a public game is ever going to play like that. When making a realism match people will be able to set up squads how they like so it's really just a stupid terrible feature.

Disagree. The problem at the moment is the squad system is too liberal with the special classes. So people are making multiple squads with one or two special classes and few or no riflemen.

Seeing 4 squad leaders, a commander, 4 MG's and 2 riflemen on a server is kind of dumb. Fewer but fuller squads are what is needed, not less structured squads.

-What is the logic of having a rifle only squad? To add more rifles to the game? It just adds another squad leader with a semi or automatic. Whatever happened to 70+% of soldiers in ww2 having bolts?

Once again, the problem is not the squad structure, but the number of squads available. They should only open up a squad with extra MG's once there are enough players to fill it. So the rifleman squad can be imagined to be the "reinforcement squad" that exists solely to take the over flow. The problem is, there are usually more squads than actual players, so you end up with more specials.

Squads are ten men. The servers are maxing out at 32 players per team. There should never be more than 4 squads. In this case 3 mixed squads and one riflemen squad with the extra 2 guys in it. What I see in that situation at the moment is usually 5 or so under strength squads with too many specials per head.

Basically, every player should be in the Rifleman only squad, until they join one of the full squads. If there are no slots available in a full squad, you stay in the rifleman squad until a new squad is opened up (when enough players arrive to fill it) or until a slot opens in one of the existing full squads (because someone left). It could be that when there are less than 10 players on a team, the rifleman only squad becomes a full squad, but once the 11th player joins, the first new squad should be riflemen only. This makes sure that there are always some specials, even if there are less than 10 players on a team, but that the proper ratio of specials is kept once there are more than 10.

These are not even bugs or whatever, just bad design decisions that make me frustrated with the direction TW took with RO2.

Oh well. Go play CoD, or whatever game you think does it better.
 
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WTF!!! If i remember correctly, there were a million posts before the beta came out going "OMG if the squad system works like BF and you spawn next to the SL then thats arcade BS"

The words "damned if you do, damned if you dont" spring to mind or maybe it should be "careful what you ask for.."
:mad:

So what TW chose the middleground and copied the BF system but made it so it was useless and didn't work properly :p

Honestly if they want to do their own thing that's great, at least playtest it so it actually adds something of value to the game.
 
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That's definitely the worst part of the squad leader system. It makes no sense that you spawn far away from the squad leader. When you choose to spawn on him you should spawn right next to him, not out in the street like you said.
To me "spawning" doesn't make sense at all in a game where we should have reinforcements not spawns, the reinforcement should have to go from the regular reinforcement point like everyone else.
Teleporting to the squad leader just feels out of place in a realistic setting.
 
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There needs to be a hotkey for VOIP to squad only.

And also cohesion implemented in some way:

Task cohesion refers to the shared commitment among members to achieving a goal that requires the collective efforts of the group. A group with high task cohesion is composed of members who share a common goal and who are motivated to coordinate their efforts as a team to achieve that goal.

Extra points for taking objective with squadmembers, +1 point when a squadmember close to you kills someone, a tiny bit less suppression for each squadmember close... more points for succesfully completing an order given by your SL... or something...
 
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