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Squad System in RO2

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#81
Ossius said:
Seconded, I think the devs should make note of this in case they ever decide to tweak the spawn criteria. might be complicated to code however.
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Since this should be in the suggestions forum, I made a thread there where we can discuss it. The basics should be fairly easy to code, resupply corridors are more of a hassle. It's been a while since I did any 3D coding, but in theory an invisible sphere with hit detection and a few states attached to the squad leader should do the trick.

The thread in suggestions may be found here: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?p=778813#post778813
 
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#83
Rifte said:
With the limited roles per squad, say my machine gunner dies and drops his gun and I pick it up, can he still respawn on me with a MG? You say you can only change roles when you are dead, does that mean we cant pick up guns?

What exactly do you mean by role? Would I be safe to assume it be mostly the gun you carry?
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The guns you pick up off the ground do not change your class. In RO you just pick up the guns, but your class reminds the same. When you die you will spawn with your class loadout and not with whatever weapon you previously picked up.

In BF you pick up actual class kits, that change your class.
 
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#86
SasQuatch said:
Your role is what weapon choice loadout you will be able to spawn with - primary, secondary if applicable, grenades, explosives etc. You can pick up weapons that are dropped on the battlefield. You will loose any picked up weapons when you die though, and respawn with your class loadout of choice.
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Take Rifte's example, though. Rifte is squad leader, and I am a gunner. I die, and Rifte picks up my gun. He stays SL, because his role isn't changed. I respawn on him as a gunner. Do both Rifte and I now have MG's? Could this be repeated until the whole squad has MG's?

As for the weapon not making the role, what does a machine gunner get, other than the machine gun, that differentiates him from a rifleman?
 
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#87
KarmakazeNZ said:
Take Rifte's example, though. Rifte is squad leader, and I am a gunner. I die, and Rifte picks up my gun. He stays SL, because his role isn't changed. I respawn on him as a gunner. Do both Rifte and I now have MG's? Could this be repeated until the whole squad has MG's?

As for the weapon not making the role, what does a machine gunner get, other than the machine gun, that differentiates him from a rifleman?
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I could see MG or sniper weapon stacking as a potential problem with the squad based spawning.

I think it would be wise to prevent spawning on your SL with a MG or sniper if there is more than say one teammate within the radius that is checked for enemies currently holding one of your dropped primary weapons. An alert should pop up when you try saying: "Sniper rifle supplies are exhausted for deployment on your squad leader. Would you like to deploy at a main spawn point or with a basic loadout this time?"
 
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#88
KarmakazeNZ said:
Take Rifte's example, though. Rifte is squad leader, and I am a gunner. I die, and Rifte picks up my gun. He stays SL, because his role isn't changed. I respawn on him as a gunner. Do both Rifte and I now have MG's? Could this be repeated until the whole squad has MG's?

As for the weapon not making the role, what does a machine gunner get, other than the machine gun, that differentiates him from a rifleman?
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Think about, people... if someone shot your machine-gunner, what is going to happen when you stop to pick up his MG... ? I suppose you probably could do some weird stuff to stack your squad with MGs. Apart from the fact that this could easily take 5 minutes (which is a LONG time in a match) - what are you going to do with them? You are slowed up, the battle has moved...
 
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#89
we can do this now in RO as people can pick up weapons and we dont wind up with loads of mg's or snipers

why would we suddenly wind up with them in RO2 - Oh it's possible, same as it is now but cant see it happening TBH

besides if people getting shot by SL we aint gunna be able to spawn on him anyway as he's got to be in free area hasn't he ???
 
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#90
gyps said:
we can do this now in RO as people can pick up weapons and we dont wind up with loads of mg's or snipers

why would we suddenly wind up with them in RO2 - Oh it's possible, same as it is now but cant see it happening TBH

besides if people getting shot by SL we aint gunna be able to spawn on him anyway as he's got to be in free area hasn't he ???
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RO1 didn't have spawning effectively controlled by the squad leader's actions.

[TW]Wilsonam said:
Think about, people... if someone shot your machine-gunner, what is going to happen when you stop to pick up his MG... ? I suppose you probably could do some weird stuff to stack your squad with MGs. Apart from the fact that this could easily take 5 minutes (which is a LONG time in a match) - what are you going to do with them? You are slowed up, the battle has moved...
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I pick up killed MGs all the time. If he's was in a window you can crawl up to the dropped weapon and grab it. But the worry really isn't about picking up killed MGs weapons, its about a coordinated attempt to load up a squad with MGs and set up defenses at a prime choke point, but one removed by distance from enemy fighters. My concern is a squad's scheme to send its SL say to the top floor of a building with a good view of the battlefield but slightly off the beaten path. Having the squad's MG suicide and letting a teammate pick up his weapon who then covers the staircase to the building. The MG would then respawn on the SL who is in a safe place where he'd suicide or throw his MG again and another teammate would pick it up and set up in a window. And again, with another MG in the window. Etc. etc.

It is precisely the griefers and the weird stuff they might do that worries me. Of course it will depend on the map, but I suspect it wouldn't be that hard to get 3 or 4 or more MGs setup say one defensive capzone behind the current one so once the attacks cap and try to move on they find themselves up against a team of MGs that was not anticipated by the map designers.
 
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#92
I understand where MAEST is coming from, and its the weird things that will contaminate RO2 as it did with RO1.

I also prefer a modified SL Spawning action of some sorts that would seem alittle more realistic in nature.
Furhermore, I do not like the idea of picking-up friendly or enemy weapons ( they should just dissapear upon death ) on the battlefield during a firefight ( its normally done after a battle ). This will also help with the above SL issue.
 
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#93
[TW]Wilsonam said:
Think about, people... if someone shot your machine-gunner, what is going to happen when you stop to pick up his MG... ? I suppose you probably could do some weird stuff to stack your squad with MGs. Apart from the fact that this could easily take 5 minutes (which is a LONG time in a match) - what are you going to do with them? You are slowed up, the battle has moved...
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I say if the opposing team gets enough time and resources to be able to equip a whole squad with MGs, It probably wouldn't make a difference to the outcome anyway. :rolleyes:
 
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#97
hockeywarrior said:
Thanks for the info. Hopefully this applies to Firefight as well, even though that mode doesn't have squad leaders (or squads ... or does it?). Anyway, I remember seeing some recent MP footage (the one with no sound) where an ally spawns literally RIGHT in front of one of the players.

Obviously it's a beta version of the game, but hopefully Firefight spawns won't be quite that close ;)
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FF has some slightly different spawning mechanics that we are still tweaking and playing with.
 
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#98
[TW]Wilsonam said:
Think about, people... if someone shot your machine-gunner, what is going to happen when you stop to pick up his MG... ? I suppose you probably could do some weird stuff to stack your squad with MGs. Apart from the fact that this could easily take 5 minutes (which is a LONG time in a match) - what are you going to do with them? You are slowed up, the battle has moved...
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I don't want to be rude, but having had some infantry training, I would like to point out that it was drummed into us that the gun must never go silent. If the gunner dies, then someone else takes his role. The MG is a force multiplier and as such is always prioritised over any other standard role.

The point is, if I was in a squad and my gunner died... I'd grab his gun every time. In fact I'd also grab the enemies gun at any opportunity.

I know it's a small thing, but I can imagine players looking for loopholes in the rules of the game, especially if the idea is to bring in more of the CoD type players, and I was wondering if it had been accounted for.

I would rather it be this way, than not being able to pick up weapons at all, though, so if there is no way around it, then no problems.
 
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#99
KarmakazeNZ said:
I don't want to be rude, but having had some infantry training, I would like to point out that it was drummed into us that the gun must never go silent. If the gunner dies, then someone else takes his role. The MG is a force multiplier and as such is always prioritised over any other standard role.
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Indeed - but I was commenting on the thought of people attempting to MG-stack a squad in the game. In the real world, your gunner doesn't pop back 20 seconds later with a freshly-issued MG, to add to the one he just died so you could have :)
 
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#100
Wilsonam, but what about my idea of getting rid of fixed ammo boxes with infinite ammo, and instead giving certain riflemen the role of supplying MG ammo. This means that there will only be i.e. 300 rounds per MG, and if you equip the whole squad with them, then the ammo limitation will be immediately felt, because the number of support riflemen will not increase, but possibly even decrease as some of them will pick up MGs and be forced to drop spare ammo due to weight limitations?
 
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