Squad leader & commander questions

[Skvid]

Here are some of the things i have trouble figuring out:
What should be my mentality on positioning and aggressiveness when playing as a SL? I feel that i should always try to be passively agressive, even when attacking i should be the last to leave the ditch, or maybe i shouldn't leave it at all and just stay there the whole time, providing covering fire?

Spoiler!

It has nothing to do with whether or not you are in a capzone. The only checks are a) if someone on the other team is looking in your direction and b) there is a nearby playerstart (they're everywhere).

It's entirely possible that someone is almost always looking in your direction.

So, from that I know that squad members can't spawn on me when enemy is looking in my general direction, anyone can elaborate on that? Does he need to have a clear sight on me, or does he still prevent it even when i'm behind a solid cover? And what is the radius of this "direction" Is it "gunsights on my head" radius? 10 degree cone radius?

I also cant seem to know when and where ill spawn when i choose to spawn on the squad leader, 9 times out of 10 i spawn in default spawn zone. What am i missing?

And what about commander? Do i just stick around radios and rely on my SL's to give coordinates for bombardments?

I also cant seem to see my order markers when playing as SL, the only ones visable are the ones that were given to me by commander. Also is there a way to issue orders via the map interface? (It should be implemented if its not possible, i dont like the fact that i need to have direct sight of the spot i want my squad to attack, risking my neck ant all that)

That's all i could come up with for now... a random tank smiley :IS2:

 

[nuNce]

Hi there,
about the commander it's not just about radio. You can Force Respawn your team too. Also you've got plenty of smoke to use and still can fight. The most important thing though, should be coordinating your team. When I use commander I try to do my best with voip. I.e. Last night on Fallen Fighters I told my team to hold up in E, while I was calling arty and to rush as soon as it would start pouring down, they listened to me and we successfully recapped D and C.
Don't forget you also get binoculars so you can easily spot enemies hiding in windows and rubble. Last you have the opportunity to give commands by your command interface (default key is B) which you can also direct to only one squad. At present day is not yet that useful if you don't find players who actually care, but still you should get the hang of it and try doing your best. I have a wiki in italian, don't know if you want to try translating it in english with google. You might want to give it a try. And yes, commanders and squad leaders have to stay alive as long as possible, both because of they usefulness and because if they die they give a morale malus to the nearby soldiers.

 

[Holy.Death]

What should be my mentality on positioning and aggressiveness when playing as a SL? I feel that i should always try to be passively agressive, even when attacking i should be the last to leave the ditch, or maybe i shouldn't leave it at all and just stay there the whole time, providing covering fire?

It depends on your weapon of choice. When I've PPSH (I often take "basic" eqipment to get used to it once global stats reset kicks in) I put smoke, then assaults should go in as the first wave to clear out building with their automatic guns and I go as last one of them, but before any long range or support class (like riflemen, machine gunner, sniper, assaults with rifles).

With that other gun (forgot the name) you should place in the smoke and go after the assault team managed to reach their objective. Before that cover their approach with fire along with other squad members (riflemen, machine gun). I saw some nice actions done that way: two MGs did set up the way they did cover all possible angles (front and flank) the Germans could possibly take, squad leader put the smoke in as a cover for the assault team attacking the building. Riflemen stood with entrenched MG covering flank as well as front of the building (and said MG) at a distance while I watched its front from my window with MG of my own. It was amazing to watch.

And what about commander? Do i just stick around radios and rely on my SL's to give coordinates for bombardments?

I stick with forward radio (there are a few places, I think they move along with the spawn points too) to be able to get into combat as soon as you're done giving orders/calling down artillery support. Your teammates get points for saving you/killing near you and you yourself should be capable to boost their attack/defense one way or another (squad leaders and commanders have higher capping abilities than standard soldiers, you can put smokes and kill just as well as your men).

When I send the recon plane in I request my squad leaders to place marks in places of high enemy density to be able to call in mortar as soon as they mark a location(s) for me. After that I go to combat and try to coordinate situation live when it is needed by providing hints or orders for my team. I often see that they are more efficient when you actively tell them what to do and what not to do (like defend B, send assaults into buildings, place some riflemen at the windows to cover C, don't go out to get killed needlessly etc).

 

[bayonet boy]

Your teammates get points for saving you/killing near you and you yourself should be capable to boost their attack/defense one way or another (squad leaders and commanders have higher capping abilities than standard soldiers, you can put smokes and kill just as well as your men).

This is an important point to remember.

Commanders:
As a commander, consider squad leaders a supplement to you -- don't rely on them to mark arty locations, because most don't bother. You not only have access to recon / instant spawning / arty but you have two smoke grenades. TWO. Get out there and use them. There's absolutely no excuse for a commander to be waiting passively at the radio.

1. Get the recon plane in the air.
2. Work out where the bulk of the enemy are.
3. Go use your smoke grenades to aid an advance.
4. Move up with that smoke / cover preferably moving up a flank.
5. Plop an arty marker on the enemy blob / route they're taking to advance to a cap zone.
6. Chuck your grenades.
7. Shoot a few enemy campers.
8. Then make your way back to a radio (which are pretty much everywhere).
9. Call in arty, and recon at the same time.
10. Re-supply at a supply zone (which is usually right next to a radio)
11. Charge back to smoke the objective while the enemy is being suppressed.
12. Use the force re-spawn to keep up the aggressive advance.
13. Advance with your team using grenades / getting flanking fire on the enemy.

If you die, you die. It means you get two new smoke grenades to help cover your team and you spawn near a radio. You shouldn't die often though, but it's 100x better to die having smoked an advance and gotten an arty location marked than to sit at a radio passively.

Squad Leaders:
Sitting next to the cap point in order to spawn your squad members right beside it = doing things right.

Sitting in an obscure location under the guise of being a mobile spawn point and having them walk out and get gunned down = doing it wrong.

You have a smoke grenade and you're more valuable running up and chucking a smoke grenade right next to the enemy fire teams (and maybe dying) than you are alive behind cover taking pot shots / thinking someone might spawn on you. So long as you're not being shot at / watched and are behind cover people can spawn on you.

IMO a squad leader should be very aggressive and lead the way on an advance, once a position or very forward foot hold has been taken, then you can let people spawn on you. While you're aggressively advancing you have a clear view of enemy movement / where trouble spots are / where the enemy advance from to go to a cap zone so you can mark it for artillery.

If no one's smoking and you're a squad leader out of smoke, go re-supply or go die and try to take someone down with you.




Commander / Squad leader smoking:
So many people who do smoke, don't know how to do it. The smoke should hinder the enemy not your own team. There's no point in smoking an open location if there's no cover after the smoke you've laid and anyone running through it will just meet a firing squad.

You need to smoke right at the enemy in order to stop them from seeing your teams movement.

Smoke is so vital in this game, if you die before using all of your smoke grenades to smoke the enemy then you're a failure.

 

[Skvid]

Wow thanks for informative and helpfull replies guys, i guess not everyone in these forums are pointless whiners.

About the smoke placement, i take it that's how you use it in attacking scenario, but when defending im sure its fine to throw smoke in a "bad way", right?

 

[Rrralphster]

Wow thanks for informative and helpfull replies guys, i guess not everyone in these forums are pointless whiners.

About the smoke placement, i take it that's how you use it in attacking scenario, but when defending im sure its fine to throw smoke in a "bad way", right?

Use the same "tactic" when defending. Throw the smoke on the enemy so it doesn't block your FOV.

 

[nuNce]

Regarding the smoke, it's not always like that. When enemies are in a higher position, it's better to have smoke actually closer to cover you from above. (i.e. Pavlov's House)

 

[bayonet boy]

Regarding the smoke, it's not always like that. When enemies are in a higher position, it's better to have smoke actually closer to cover you from above. (i.e. Pavlov's House)

You're right, it can depend on the situation. But my diagram is a pretty good rule of thumb to follow for someone not aware of how to smoke. The concept of it is applicable for most situations.

The idea is, the smoke should be as close to the enemy as possible while actively blocking their FOV. It's not the "only place" to put smoke. Laying a wall of smoke from a gap in a building to another building where you need men to run would be fine to have the smoke nowhere near the enemy but simply blocks their FOV. Dropping a "bad smoke" grenade in order to use it as a spring board to throw an actual good smoke grenade properly blocking the enemy is fine too obviously.

What you don't want happening is a situation where you've got your men advancing through smoke to a spot where the enemy has a clear FOV, because they'll execute you based on your silhouette in the smoke when you have zero visibility.

 

[hishnik]

I typed up this for commander tips elsewhere:


If you want to be an effective commander keep following things in mind:

COMMANDERS Role

- As commander, you're not a SL who needs to stay hidden and out of sight to allow squad mates to spawn. You have two smoke grenades and S/A rifle or automatic sub machine gun - you're equivalent of Elite Rifleman or Assault.

- Don't sit by the radio, you only need it every 2 mins at most. To call in Recon or Arty

- Dont sit back, you're useless in the back.

- Help your team rush. Whenever playing commander role, i'm always in the heat of battle. I make sure to provide the smoke screen for my fellow team mates, and talk to squad leads to make sure that we coordinate attacks together

- "Tactical Overview" is your friend (default key T), check it periodically, as it not only shows you (while you run too) the points to take, it shows you respawn info (if 5+ people waiting for 10+ seconds, hit that "N") It will also show you the nearest radios, which is good if you havent learned the map yet.



Artillery support:

- Get used to setting your own arty target = While would be nice for Squad leaders to give you arty, most of them will be too busy keeping their heads down under enemy fire (because they're not playing as squad lead should in first place )

- Arty targets shouldnt be spawn points, try to predict the most likely assault path, and set it there.

- The easiest way to distinguish the three artillery types are: Mortar (CoolDown ~2mins lasts about 15 secs), Artillery (CD ~ 1.5x of mortar, lasts 30-40 secs), Rocket Barrage (CD ~ 2-2.5x time of Mortar, lasts about 20 secs, highly destructive)

- Artillery is NOT only for you to stack up kills, it is a great tool to use for suppression/preparing for assault.

- If you dont find it possible to set arty target on the ground, use binoculars ON the building near the desired spot, and just check via map if it's close enough


Using Radios
- As i mentioned earlier, you dont need to be glued to the radio. I use radio as guerrilla attack tactic. I run up to it - hit use button (default Ctrl) call in Recon and/or Arty, and as soon as your character starts asking them for it, close the overview, BUT do not die until you get confirmation, otherwise it will cancel the order.

- Recon is the only time you need to "sit around the radio", unless you're near the radio, the reconnaissance plane will not be able to give you enemy positions, so stick around

- At times you will need to spam click the order buttons, as they dont get recognized right away, but make sure you're all set before running off

- When running around, if you want to find out the "Cool Down", open Map (Default key m) if it does not show a counter, your ability is ready to use (unless of course you dont have one to begin with)

p.s. Cooldown are server dependent, lately i've been seeing more servers with longer, much longer cooldowns

 

[Maj.Faux-Pas]

Commander / Squad leader smoking:
So many people who do smoke, don't know how to do it. The smoke should hinder the enemy not your own team. There's no point in smoking an open location if there's no cover after the smoke you've laid and anyone running through it will just meet a firing squad.

You need to smoke right at the enemy in order to stop them from seeing your teams movement.

Smoke is so vital in this game, if you die before using all of your smoke grenades to smoke the enemy then you're a failure.

Goddamn, you nailed it. Good smoke vs. bad smoke. Makes my day.

People need to understand this as TL/SL, instead of *****ing about nobody attacking under bad smoke cover.

@Nunce, yes, but you've got to be able to blind the enemy without blinding yourself. If you throw near smoke or short smoke on any map in any situation, even in Pavlov, the enemy will see you coming out of your smoke clear as day and gun you down. Near/short/close smoke is still bad smoke and actually helps the enemy.

The solution: throw smoke into the window where the enemy is. I used this in RO-Danzig as defending SL, and could place smoke in the apartment windows overlooking the destroyed building/marketplace/final objective, which blinded enemy snipers and riflemen, and allowed us to assault their position, and also allowed a portion to remain behind and pick off the enemy as they came out of the smoke, and the cap zone was still clear of smoke so we could pick off anyone else trying to get into the cap zone. We had full view, they had none. Also works on the bridges, and the enemy building across the river with high windows. Will probably work in Pavlov, but Pavlov is bigger. Need more smoke for Pavlov.

 

[hishnik]

On pavlov's we found that having commander + one SL coordinating, you can smoke up path between C and E easily with 3 smoke grenades, with noone being able to see the movement (aside from the AI tank gunners of course)

 

[bayonet boy]

The solution: throw smoke into the window where the enemy is. I used this in RO-Danzig as defending SL, and could place smoke in the apartment windows overlooking the destroyed building/marketplace/final objective, which blinded enemy snipers and riflemen, and allowed us to assault their position, and also allowed a portion to remain behind and pick off the enemy as they came out of the smoke, and the cap zone was still clear of smoke so we could pick off anyone else trying to get into the cap zone. We had full view, they had none.

Do that exact same move on Apartments too. 2nd floor window chuck a smoke grenade and it covers all the floors, then you can climb in and kill about 20 - 30 Russians in the back / coming back confused. While making sure none of their team can lay fire on the square or advance into it. :IS2:

 

[Skvid]

Do that exact same move on Apartments too. 2nd floor window chuck a smoke grenade and it covers all the floors, then you can climb in and kill about 20 - 30 Russians in the back / coming back confused. While making sure none of their team can lay fire on the square or advance into it. :IS2:

That just sounds too evil... but then again... nazis...

By the way, i utilized the help i got from this thread just now, played as commander in fallen fighers, tried to chug smoke around as much as possible (efficiently ofc), and use the radio whenever there was a recon/arti ready.
The squads sort of listened to my orders that were changing depending on the situation (and they weren't just all squads -> defend), it was more like 5 squads managing from 2 to 3 zones throughout the map. Aggressive tactics to take the upper park (D) were futile though, there is no way they were going to charge into the open or even attempt to advance slowly. ANYWAY at least they weren't all turtled up in that 2 story building.

I'd like to think my leadership had something to do with our victory by 80 or so tickets. I landed a few FAT arties that racked up enough points for me to end up in #4 position on the list.

 

[hishnik]

By the way, another thing to mention, as commander, pay attention to how your character calls in "recon" and "arty", on both sides. This will come in handy, as you can hear other side calls over radios. Not sure if it's a bug, or design, but you get 30 second notice before enemy artillery lands. Enough time to give heads up to your team to take cover... (thats my little secret, saves lives very often, as your team bunkers up)

I'd like to think my leadership had something to do with our victory by 80 or so tickets. I landed a few FAT arties that racked up enough points for me to end up in #4 position on the list.

Another thing worth mentioning - you get triple points when you arty enemy in the objective zone, while you're sitting in objective zone. (another reason NOT to sit in the back)

 

[Dionysos]

Btw, it's possible to smoke high-up positions. Either get close enough to chuck it in, or debate with yourself whether you want to exploit the horrendous bug that the smoke grenade will get stuck in-air if it goes off in-air. Create clouds!

 

[Mormegil]

I will use smoke to get my men to advance in a relatively open area. Thinking specifically of Red October Factory as Soviet. I'll throw smoke as far forward as I can, run up to the smoke, and throw my 2nd one up as far as I can, to block that big gaping hole the Axis likes to fire out of.

So the first smoke is concealment so I can get close enough to throw the good smoke. Meanwhile, I'll mark arty in the first building and call that in to suppress the defenders.

Next objective (welding shed), I tend to toss the smoke on the sides to provide a smoke "wall" for concealment, as it's way too far to get good smoke over the Axis base of fire in the next building.

 

[hishnik]

Btw, it's possible to smoke high-up positions. Either get close enough to chuck it in, or debate with yourself whether you want to exploit the horrendous bug that the smoke grenade will get stuck in-air if it goes off in-air. Create clouds!

Depending on how high up. If we're talking 2-3rd floors of say maps like Pavlovs, i tend to hold smoke for few seconds, to have a good momentum and toss it in such way where it lands between the top floor and the one they shoot from. Since smoke goes all over the place once its in, shows you how crapily russian houses are made

I will use smoke to get my men to advance in a relatively open area. Thinking specifically of Red October Factory as Soviet. I'll throw smoke as far forward as I can, run up to the smoke, and throw my 2nd one up as far as I can, to block that big gaping hole the Axis likes to fire out of.

So the first smoke is concealment so I can get close enough to throw the good smoke. Meanwhile, I'll mark arty in the first building and call that in to suppress the defenders.

Next objective (welding shed), I tend to toss the smoke on the sides to provide a smoke "wall" for concealment, as it's way too far to get good smoke over the Axis base of fire in the next building.

I always create walls of smoke in widely open areas.
On Red October(as Russians): i smoke the very left side, allowing for reinforcements to get closer without them sniping us off + cover that hole in a wall, and second smoke goes to the crawl hole in the middle of the wall, while the arty suppressing right side as soon as we spawn. It's a bet, but pays off quite often, as lots of times MG is placed on the right side of that wall

On Pavlovs House(as Russians): Smoke from C to E, one nade between C and the overturned tram, second right after the second tram. I ask one of the SL to fill in the gaps, and get the other smoke nade in C to place on 2nd-3rd floor of E

On Appartments (as Russians): I smoke fully the right side of A and building between B and A, that allows for our guys to cap both A+B and start taking out the enemy

On Commisars House(as Russians): I tend to create smoke corridor between A and C (takes two smoke nades) and later between E and F. Also if we're having difficulty with D and H, two nades get you enough smoke to cover most of the way to craters/

On Barracks (as Russians): Tend to put smoke between C and D, and into D itself to cap, and further from D to E/F. If badly loosing, and pushed back to A/B i often smoke from left side of A to C and the red building left of A.

Hope this makes sense

 

[Landrik]

I played as a Team Leader on Grain Elevator and ran my happy little butt over to the radio down south. Had a few guys cover me so I was able to run recon and well placed forced respawns. With the combination of good MG/sniper cover and our men keeping them out of the gate house, we stomped all over them. Letting out smokes to blind the gate house on the approach was also a good move.

 

[hishnik]

I played as a Team Leader on Grain Elevator and ran my happy little butt over to the radio down south. Had a few guys cover me so I was able to run recon and well placed forced respawns. With the combination of good MG/sniper cover and our men keeping them out of the gate house, we stomped all over them. Letting out smokes to blind the gate house on the approach was also a good move.

Staying around radio is generally a bad idea, because right next to radio you will notice your gun doing all kinds of weird emotions (must be the interference from radio), you wont be able to aim, etc
You dont need to be by the radio to do forced respawn, just hit N when needed. And you can check the number of people waiting to spawn by holding "T"

 

[Nervous_Energy]

Lead from the front

Get that arty in the choke points, use it for defensive and offensive purposes.

Use that smoke, get in the enemy`s zone and use smoke, better still if you can get close to a re-supply station and use even more it causes chaos.

When you die, get the plane up, take 15 seconds to take in what is happening and direct your force accordingly. 50% will listen the other half will continue to camp and generally do what they think is best. ( I am hoping its the half that dont listen will leave for BF3 and COD)

A commander at the back is poor show imo. You also give extra XP and points to people with you in zones etc. Gain some advantages etc.