Some thoughts on the new weapons!

[Aze]

First of all, i wanna thank TWI for adding these new weapons! They are a lot of fun. But ofc, with a new launch, there are bugs and some things are ofc a bit off in terms of balance etc. Let's see what we can find that needs a fix and thinks we PERSONALLY think should be changed:

Magnum + Dual Magnum:
How weird. Magnum weighs 2 kg. Dual weighs 4. Has a crapload of ammo. All this while the sucky-suck-suck Dual 9mm still weighs 4 kg. I don't get the massive inconsistancies. Isn't it time the pistols got a massive rebalance already? I mean, in terms of single/dual ammo, single/dual weights and so on? Or maybe even its own perk?
EDIT: Oh yeah, and it suffers from the same superannoying pickup ammo bug as the Handcannons :'(
EDIT 2: My current thought of them is that they are quite nice, but inconsistant with the other pistols. All the pistols need some form of rehaul imo.

Husk Cannon:
I gotta say, i LOVE the charge-up attack on this weapon (holding down primary fire)! A nice touch for when you wanna have more punch in your attack. Makes it feel very versatile. Love it Also like how it doesn't need to reload and all that.
However, is it just me or does the weapon seem to aim a bit oddly when not ironsighting?
EDIT 2: I can agreed with everyone that says it is overpriced. It's not worth that much at all. Even after reducing its cost heavily (down to 2500

 

[C_Gibby]

I think the inclusion of a pistol that weighs 2 blocks is one of the greatest things to happen to this game. Now a pistol can be truly enjoyed as a backup weapon by someone who isn't a sharpie or a medic. The same MUST be done with the handcannon, I feel.

I quite like the M4, too. It's a pretty nice "accuracy" weapon for the commando for the earlier waves. It's cool for medics to use, too. A lot of medics seem to like the AK, a spammy kind of close-combat gun, but now they get something that works a bit differently!

MP5 is also glorious. The MP7 isn't obsolete, I don't think. It's still a cool anti-crawler hose, and it works like a backup gun.

 

[Aze]

I think the inclusion of a pistol that weighs 2 blocks is one of the greatest things to happen to this game. Now a pistol can be truly enjoyed as a backup weapon by someone who isn't a sharpie or a medic. The same MUST be done with the handcannon, I feel.

Well it would be cool if the pistols were changed somehow
Duals weigh 2x the weight (or less than 2x), while also having 2x the ammo. Like:

Magnum - Weight 2, Ammo 84
Dual Magnum - Weight 4, Ammo 168

9mm - Weight 0, Ammo 165
Dual 9mm - Weight 2, Ammo 330

HC - Weight 3, Ammo 72
Dual HC - Weight 6, Ammo 144

Something like that would be cool

I quite like the M4, too. It's a pretty nice "accuracy" weapon for the commando for the earlier waves. It's cool for medics to use, too. A lot of medics seem to like the AK, a spammy kind of close-combat gun, but now they get something that works a bit differently!

MP5 is also glorious. The MP7 isn't obsolete, I don't think. It's still a cool anti-crawler hose, and it works like a backup gun.

I need to play more with all the weapons, this was just a "quick impression". But yeah, the MP5 and M4 had even better feeling in them than i expected

I think my fav weapon so far is the Husk Cannon, although i think the fully charged attack is a tad overpowered (it can stun bloody Scrakes! Oo)

 

[C_Gibby]

Magnum - Weight 2, Ammo 84

So less than the HC as it is now? Not gonna fly. I think a major selling point of the Magnum is the amount of ammo. If the ammo were on par with the current HC, I would just leave the HC. The Magnum will be obsolete otherwise. It's the weaker gun, and it has less ammo per mag already.

 

[Lewt]

The M4 feels like a bullpup with less ammo to be honest. Pretty though. Also the combat + hunting shotgun really commit you to spike damage as a support specialist, very hard to defend yourself alone without a choke point.

For me the claymore was 3 blocks, same as the katana - and actually said so in the shop. Is it really supposed to be 6?

 

[darkgazer195]

For me the claymore was 3 blocks, same as the katana - and actually said so in the shop. Is it really supposed to be 6?

This..... But there's some kind of typo in the trader menu.... When you're buying the claymore, it says it weighs 6 blocks but when you check your inventory after buying it, it says it only weighs 3 blocks...

About the sword itself.... I think with the damage and speed of the axe plus the weight and range of the katana (in fact, a bit longer than that), the claymore might change the Axe+Katana loadout now.

 

[zephkiel]

I just played 5mn the update before going to bed.

When i took the claymore i dropped to 0 weight...and when i dropped the claymore.... -3 weight (!!)

So i guess the claymore is taking 3 block.

But i had a bug, here are the screens, for TW :

W/ Claymore :
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Allister_Damascus/screenshot/648747633991066017/?tab=public

W/o
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Allister_Damascus/screenshot/648747633991063830/?tab=public

Running like wind.

Also, the M4 does not have a solid sound, it sounding like we are firing it from afar.
The SCAR give a good impression, while the M4 doesnt.

The combat shotgun has less shell of the manual shotgun, wich is ok. but the reloading is really slow, since our guy take the time to 'clip' the shell each time :/
I guess that's killing it.

Didnt try other weap.

 

[Gartley]

Supprised by M4+M203, I really liked that weapon from a Demo viewpoint

M4 havn't tried as combo but if the above was anything to go by can't see myself replacing it.

MP5, don't like the site and reloading animation is a bit ott but otherwise solid addition.

Combat shotgun is stupid strong. lvl5 support can carry all his weapons and I didn't need to. That with a HS and I was sweeping everything away. Felt godly, felt OP.

Husk cannon, nice, like the charge mechanic, don't know how well the ammo will last yet on harder diffs.

.44... Mine is better XD (I think that will be the last time now) Not as powerful as I'd of hoped for but for the weight ideal.

Claymore, not a berserker player so no opinion. Although I got the bug as described above.

 

[ChairmanMurder[Forge]]

Here's what I wrote in that other thread

Claymore: As-is, a pretty broken weapon. Light as a katana, but hits far harder. Also only slightly slower than the katana on the swings. Also appears to have a farther reach. However, judging from the trader buy menu, it's supposed to be twice as heavy as a katan at 6 blocks. Get that extra weight on there, and it'll be far more balanced.

M4 w/ M203: I'm not sure what to make of this gun. I mean, it gives the Demo an effective weapon when Crawlers come for his ***, but at the same time it just feels... weird. Like a Commando weapon with some superfluous something-something tacked on to make it a Demo weapon. (A PAW-20 would've been an awesome addition)

Husk Gun: Fun, fun, fun. However, a tiny bit overpowered. Off-perk, you can stun a Scrake on a full charge. While I fully support a Firebug (at whatever level is deemed appropriate) to stun a Scrake at full charge, Average Joe Medic with a Husk gun shouldn't be able to. It'll be more useful than the off-perk crossbow, because as far as I know the Scrakes won't be resistant to Husk gun shots at Suicidal and HoE.

.44 Magnum: Also not sure how I feel about this weapon. It's a bridge between the handcannon and the 9mm, definitely. I'll have to play with it more and maybe look at the code, but for some reason it feels awkward. Maybe it'll grow on me.

MP5M: I like it. A very good upgrade to the MP7M. As someone mentioned, though, the infinite heals you can get just by switching between the medic guns might be a bit unbalanced.

M4: Haven't really played with it.

M1014: Also haven't really played with it.

 

[vealck]

Loadout: MP7, M4/203, .44, katana. Medic is a god amongst men again.

 

[hockeywarrior]

I haven't had a chance to try out all of the weapons yet, but the 44 magnum and combat shotty are awesome! They fit right in the game, though it makes no sense that the 44 magnum is so light. That needs to be fixed.

Looking forward to trying the other weapons as soon as possible!

 

[Fat Cat]

i love them all, but it seems the xbow zoom got broken by the update.

 

[CandleJack]

I haven't used them all yet, but i'll add in what i've used.

The S&W M29, it makes me feel lucky, punk.

The M4 is nice, handles well, magazine is fine.
I'm pleasantly surprised TWI animated the actual reloading rather than CS:S's forward assist reload.

M4 w/ barrel-mounted M203; what a good feel. It runs out too fast on the AR, but the GL is amazing. It's pure sex.
Hard to aim though... i think i need more practice with demo, i don't use it much if at all.

The MP5A3 with SureFire grip is quite good, the 9x19mm easily outperforms the 4.6x30mm of the MP7 in terms of soft target killing. It feels more controllable at the 850rpm as opposed to the MP7's 1050-1100rpm.

The Claymore i can't really comment about, i've heard it swings slower than the Axe, but when i attempted to zerklejerk the pat by myself with Yomo it seemed just as fast if not faster.

That's about all i can comment on. Loving it so far TWI, as always; good work.

 

[outofrealman]

So here are my opinions on the new weapons (base on HOE game I played today):





44 revolver: Slightly less damage, slightly less clip size, slightly less in weight, slightly cheaper, longer reload time, than the HC. A little bit more max ammo.

So, as a sharpshooter, I will never use this weapon. I cant fix something useful in that 2 kg, and even off perked it only cost $50 less than HC. HC beats revolver in any ways.

When off perked, if I happen to have 2 blocks left (which really dont happen much), I may use it. If I have 3, I give dosh to zerker and have myself a katana.

Oh wait... I can actually buy dual revolver! But I see no reason to do so outside of achievements. It just suck as bad as dual HC and dual 9mm. And the reload time of dual revolver? Oh man... I wonder if AA12 reload faster.

EDIT: I forget to mention that it has much much much more recoil than HC.

Claymore: WAO, we finally get rid of fire axe! It swing faster than axe, it do decent damage, and it stun scrakes on HoE. No back stab needed. It weight the same as katana, it cost a tiny bit more, and only swing a little bit slower than katana. After getting both, I still have 8 blocks.... This... is just OP.

This weapon is OP. For off perk users, katana is better, but for zerkers, this, is a real weapon. It do everything the axe could, and it swing faster, and if feels like it reach further than both of them. And you have 8 KG left. I dont think this is balance..? (and I herd that the weight is buggy?)

M4: Again, this is a weapon to destroy another weapon: SCAR. Before the update, SCAR really only beats ak with laser sight. And now we have a weapon having 500 ammo, 37 shots per clip, with laser sight (that's a off-center sight...but it should be fixed soon I believe) And still do as good as ak and SCAR for trash. One shot decap up to bloat, full clip doing decent damage just like ak and SCAR.

Now I have no place for SCAR anymore. If I do need more ammo, AK + M4 is way too good. If I need some kind of chance to bigs, M32 + ak still good.

M4 with GL: Good weapon for demo, now they are not hopeless in close combats. Trading 12 nades for a decent M4 sounds good for me.

Combat Shotgun: One alternative choice with pump shotgun. Less weight as I remember, same max ammo. Semi-auto, two shot less per clip. That's a ok weapon, but I still enjoy the 100+ shots from AA12. So AA12 + huntty is still my loadout for support.

MP5M: ANOTHER weapon destroying a current weapon. Why I want MP7 now...? I get super large clip size with MP5, still two shot decap trash zeds, still do nothing against bigs, still heals the same. Unless My team is spreading out very far way so I need two medic guns, I can heal non-stop with one medic gun and syringe. Well unless I want to xbow husks and sirens, I wont touch MP7 again as medic.

MP7 becomes a non-perked weapon for other perks.

Husk Gun: Ok, this is a good weapon for firebug, this is a good weapon on its own, this, is a really powerful weapon. It stun scrakes on HOE with full charge. It blows away groups of zeds. It set mutiple targets on fire. It two shots (with dot) solo normal patty (he was not able to heal).

If you choose husk cannon, you cannot hold FT. So all you can have is mac-10 or off perked weapons. Now you dont have the "panic wall of fire" to save the team from hairy situations. In setting things on fire, it do better and more reliable than FT. This weapon can let you adjust the blast radius and damage with the cost of ammo. But if we look at the whole picture, this is not helping firebug at all. For damage, it still dont do nearly as good and GLs. The "blinding effect" is still longer than demos as you set multiple zeds on fire, and they keep dancing around. Husk cannon can also rage fps. And you need a direct hit to stun scrakes. It cost you much time to reach full charge. And ONLY direct hit doing enough damage on HoE. Without a direct hit, it do ok damage to trash, other than that, it just sets a group of zed on fire.

So, this weapon is only good when used perfectly. But nobody is perfect. And that's why firebug really need buff of the burning. Either DoT increase or zeds take more damage something like that.


Something more:

1. Why is everything bind on 3 now? FT, MP7, M4... (why not M4 with GL?), etc.

2. Why the less helpful weapon come out first when you press 2, 3 or 4? Revolver before HC, Claymore before Katana, I forget the other two...
When you need HC or katana, most of the time you need it fast, but why claymore or revolver shows first?

3. M4 with GL shares the larger clip size with M4 from commando, but it dont share the max ammo or damage bonus. And if you buy M4 with GL first and then buy M4, it counts as the same gun and use the same pool of ammo. If you buy M4 first, it has two ammo pool. One is 500 max and one is 300 max.

4. Testmap dont work at all after the update... at the last xmas or summer event, testmap spawn normal zeds, but with this update, it spawn invisible zeds who dont attack.

5. MP5 and M4's laser sight is not accurate. Bullets hit higher than the dot.

 

[Fronk]

I feel as though when I'm in Ice Caves holding the Claymore I should get stuck in the ceiling whenever I jump.

 

[Aze]

@outofrealman: Good post! I agreed pretty much with everything

.44 Revolver could've been done differently, like, in comparison to the Handcannon:
*Less total ammo
*More powerful shots
* ^ but ZERO penetration to counterbalance (makes it a more of a sidegrade too, and a good weapon for medium-sized Zeds)
*More recoil (as it has now)
*Slower reload (as it has now)
*Weigh the same as the HC
*Cost maybe a bit more than the HC (or the same cost)

Then it is a more interesting weapon and definitely a sidegrade, rather than a downgrade / more of an offperk weapon.
And as i edited into the first post: IT SUFFERS FROM THE SAME BLOODY AMMO BUG AS THE HANDCANNON WHEN YOU PICK UP A 2ND ONE! >_<

Claymore is pure overpoweredness. What could be done:
* Slower in swingtime (just a tad slower than fire axe)
* Weigh more (like 6 or 7)
* More differentiating attacks like:
Primary fire - Sidesweeps and can cleave through multiple specimen
Secondary fire - Overhead and/or Upwards strike (animation variety) for a powerful single target strike. Sliiiightly slower than its primary fire. Should be stronger than Fire Axe, like now.

That would be enough.

M4 i see nothing wrong with though. It's weird, i only have 375 shots as level 6 Commando on this weapon, why do you guys say 500? Need to retry this weapon.
I'd change ammo (non-perked) to 32 shots per mag, total ammo 320. Then you have a bit more shots than the AK, but they are also weaker, but also with higher accuracy and rate of fire. SCAR needs piercing shots! >_<

M4 with GL i actually see as balanced, but too expensive. 1750 with no discount would certainly be enough. It's kinda underpowered imo. Maybe increase its weight to 7 though if it was that much cheaper (so no M32+M4M203+Pipebombs is available)

Combat Shotgun is good imo. Should have been a TAD different though imo, like:
*Base ammo 54 or 60 (up from... 48?)
*Damage reduced sliiightly, like just a little bit under the damage of the regular Shotgun
*Weight up to 9 (up from 8)
Tada! Now it's maybe a tad better/more balanced?

MP5 i totally agreed with your opinon outofrealman. Immediate things i could see changed
* 5 weight, up from the measly THREE! (needs to be done asap!)
* Mag down to 30 (down from 32)
* Total ammo reduced to 360 (down from 400)
* Accuracy improved (it spreads too much imo)
Other than that, i really like it. Oh: And remove the flashlight from the weapon model since you can't use it anyway ()

Husk cannon could be nerfed a little in its charged-up damage (so it at least doesn't stun a Scrake offperk), but its charged-up area of effect could be increased even further in size. So instead of doing (hypothetically) something like this:

Current (hypothetical)
1 charge shot: 70 damage, 10 aoe
10 charge shot: 700 damage, 50 aoe

to this:
1 charge shot: 70 damage, 10 aoe
10 charge shot: 600 damage, 100 aoe

Thus, you trade of some potential single target damage (in terms of ammo) for a much bigger area of effect.
Also, i think it should have a bit more ammo, as it wastes it too quickly. 200 offperk (up from 150) would be better (thus giving you 320 at level 6, rather than 240).
Maybe also reduce the price a liiiittle bit? Like, 3000 instead of 4000?

Well those are my further personal thoughts on them I guess no one agrees

 

[outofrealman]

@ Aze: I love discussion over down voting 100 times more

Actually I cant tell if claymore hit harder or fire axe hit harder because I cant use the testmap at all... sadly. And as long as claymore stuns scrake in the front, axe have no purpose. If it dont, claymore have no purpose.
Either way, one of them gonna be useless.

As a commando, it only matter if I can one-shot my target or not. Mando sucks for bigs. So all it matter is how well I deal with hard-to-headshot crawlers and how well can I decap anything under bloat. So bullup is out of the field on HoE. As long as AK and M4 one-shot decap trash, its better than SCAR even if it has penetration. SCAR will only be usefull if it can two shot stalkers and crawlers which is THE two target having dodgy heads. If it takes the same tap on my mouse to take care of them, no way I will choose a weapon with only 25 shots per clip and slower reload.

For shotguns... AA12 beats two of them (pump and combat) in everyways as long as you dont spam. Its just better with larger clip size and more potential ammo. Not to mention if you run into an ammo boxes, it gives you TWENTY shots instead of 8 or 6.

About husk cannon.... so you can actually stun scrakes off perked!? WTF man.... but off perk users will easily burn themselves to death. And after all FB still need some fixes.

 

[FrozenFireBug]

Combat Shotgun-Has massive DPS, but can only fire for a single second before having to reload. Balanced Tier 2 weapon.

M4- Mows down things pretty fast and is a more viable choice than the AK47 if you intend to beat the crap out of trash specimens.

MP5- Decent DPS with a massive magazine, very good for what it is. On a related matter, it can be used with the MP7 for endless dart spam.

M4203- Pointlessly expensive for what it is (An M4+Half nade capacity M79).
More suited as a Commando weapon as the Commando gets bullet damage bonuses with it.

44 Magnum- A viable secondary weapon for any perk.

Claymore- Seems like an axe that can't kite Fleshies, in other words it's worthless.

Husk Cannon- It's a Flamethrower that fires 10x slower and doesn't have penetration. To counteract this, charged shots can stun Scrakes. In my opinion it's a complete trash weapon and would only be viable if it weighed 4 KG and had a price reduction.

 

[n87]

I really like the M4M203. It's a great weapon for Commando.
But, why won't it count for stalker kills?
It the same weapon as the other M4, which does count on stalkers.
Should be changed i think.

 

[Aze]

@ Aze: I love discussion over down voting 100 times more

Me too ^^

Actually I cant tell if claymore hit harder or fire axe hit harder because I cant use the testmap at all... sadly. And as long as claymore stuns scrake in the front, axe have no purpose. If it dont, claymore have no purpose.
Either way, one of them gonna be useless.

Well, as stunning Scrakes (and all other specimen that can be stunned, afaik) is based purely on damage, yes, the Claymore hits harder than Fire Axe. WAY harder. I like it being able to stun from the front, but only if its by using the secondary fire. I dunno if primary fire can stun the Scrakes.

As a commando, it only matter if I can one-shot my target or not. Mando sucks for bigs. So all it matter is how well I deal with hard-to-headshot crawlers and how well can I decap anything under bloat. So bullup is out of the field on HoE. As long as AK and M4 one-shot decap trash, its better than SCAR even if it has penetration. SCAR will only be usefull if it can two shot stalkers and crawlers which is THE two target having dodgy heads. If it takes the same tap on my mouse to take care of them, no way I will choose a weapon with only 25 shots per clip and slower reload.

Well, imo, SCAR should be like this:
24 ammo per mag (up from 20)
288 total ammo (down from 300)
BUT:
It should pierce once AND deal enough damage to oneshot crawlers with a bodyshot. Then the SCAR is actually a viable upgrade. I know that Commando should be against trash, and by giving SCAR penetration it would be the #1 king at spray and pray into big crowds of smallfry.

For shotguns... AA12 beats two of them (pump and combat) in everyways as long as you dont spam. Its just better with larger clip size and more potential ammo. Not to mention if you run into an ammo boxes, it gives you TWENTY shots instead of 8 or 6.

Well, the Combat Shotgun IS supposed to be inferior to the AA12 (just look at the price differences ). It's more like an upgrade from the regular shotgun and hunting shotgun. It has GREAT burst damage, yet also better consistant trashkilling than the Hunting Shotgun. So, imo, the Combat Shotgun feels more like a mix of Regular Shotgun and Hunting Shotgun, while at the same time a tad like the AA12 in semiauto. It's a great inbetweener weapon imo
I just think it should have a tad more ammo, and a tad weaker shots, so there is an incentive (over only increased DPS) to use it over the Shotgun and/or Hunting Shotgun.

About husk cannon.... so you can actually stun scrakes off perked!? WTF man.... but off perk users will easily burn themselves to death. And after all FB still need some fixes.

Afaik, yes, it can stun Scrakes with a direct fully charged hit offperk. That's why i'd rather remove a little of its direct hit power and offset that with better aoe-capabilities, as the Firebug is supposed to focus more on trash than big specimen. That's the point of my suggestions ^^