Some things bump mapped, others not?

[Innociv]

Looking in some screenshots, it appears that some things are bump mapped and others are not. The bump mapped things look much better(though, in some cases the bump a little too much and it a bit too Vaseline-covered looking, but still better). Is this just because they're alpha/beta, and bump mapping hasn't been added to everything, or what?

Like on http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/14332468/killing-floor/images/killing-floor-20090320110712745.html it looks like the block wall is bump mapped, but the players are not.

 

[Yoshiro]

As far as I am aware we haven't added bump maping to the engine.

 

[[TW]Ramm-Jaeger]

The art team has used some very advanced secret techniques to makes things look really nice. Tech-wise, the engine is basically the same as what we used for RO (other than the color correction stuff, but that came from KF). Basically we've found new and creative ways to eek out some really nice visuals from a very mature engine.

 

[Innociv]

Oh.. so it's just faked and just looks good at that angle. D: Or it's a trick with specular and alpha? I was thinking that was maybe it too..

Why couldn't you just add normal mapping to the engine? :\ Things would look so much better. Shaders = awesome.
There are even filters and programs to automatically make bump maps which look fine for most things, considering it's just a few minutes of work to make those normal maps.

And for player models, there is always zbrush bump painting where you can make nicer normal maps without needing to make a high poly model.

 

[SgtH3nry3]

You'd need a dedicated engine programmer and the resources to do that.

 

[[TW]schneidzekk]

Actually it is just a simple cost-benefit ratio matter.

 

[Innociv]

Hm I think the cost-benefit ratio is rather high.. because graphics alone will sell games somewhat.

But i know nothing about how hard it is to add the code for bump mapping to UE2.5. I just know about making the actual bump maps. =]

 

[[TW]Wilsonam]

Hm I think the cost-benefit ratio is rather high.. because graphics alone will sell games somewhat.

But i know nothing about how hard it is to add the code for bump mapping to UE2.5. I just know about making the actual bump maps. =]

Hard. Long job. Expensive... add $10 to the price of the game expensive.

 

[Lt_Kettch]

So the game would cost 15$ in the end?

j/k you deserve every penny

 

[Innociv]

You can use photoshop's batch editor to do convincing enough to where 99% won't notice the difference bumpmaps for tiled textures. :\ I could proof of concept it if that's the problem.. I've done bump maps before.

Yeah for characters it takes longer.


If it takes a long time to add the code to the engine, I guess I understand. :\ I just don't see why it would, but i don't know anything about engine coding. But once that's done, it's in the engine, and it's a matter of the art and shaders..

Also, you wouldn't need to add $10 to the cost of the game if you got at least 50k more sales, no?

 

[[TW]schneidzekk]

I just don't see why it would, but i don't know anything about engine coding.

And now let's get over it

 

[Innociv]

I think you're using that as an excuse. ;D You're obviously just saying that's it, because no one is an expert on engine coding. =]
They are just directX shaders though, no? :/ People have already written code for those, and there is a tool by both nvidia and amd for making directX shaders. But oh well, I don't know.

Bump would be way more useful than the bloom that just washing everything out. :3

 

[SgtH3nry3]

Damn, this should have been implemented in the RO update...

 

[Innociv]

Yeah it'd be nice if the engine at least supported it.. Then "Community graphics patch" which devs make official and the steam update with pretty screenshots sells more copies

 

[Tolil]

Can you stop complaining? Still looks good to me, especially compared to the mod. When I'm knee deep in the *cough* cloned, I'm not gonna notice, and I probobly won't notice any other time. It's a minor detail, and it's time that would be wasted, time which could be spent finishing stuff that you'll notice so they can get the game out faster. Please just drop it. It doesn't matter if he's "making excuses", when you get in Tripwire, you can actually have a say in this sort of stuff, but you're just somebody, so whether or not they are just lazy, it's not YOUR call. Please, just LAY OFF the team.

 

[M3tabolic]

:-o

:-o

The reaction in the last post seems a little extreme!

I don't think anyone is particularly complaining or giving the team a hard time Tolil. I get the impression this is more of a 'wouldn't it be cool if...' kind of thread. I'm pretty sure Tripwire like getting feedback from forum members. You don't have to be a member of Tripwire to give opinions and feedback as a player.

I agree that the better the game looks, the better it will sell... and we all want that!

 

[Switchblade]

You don't have to be a member of Tripwire to give opinions and feedback as a player.

True

ask any RO player/forummer here how they think about TW involvement and feedback

Only thing they don't want to comment on is on game 3, for the rest you can suggest and ask (almost) anything

 

[[TW]Ramm-Jaeger]

Lets see if I can put this to rest right here. Yes normal mapping is a great engine feature. No we don't have the time/money to implement it into UE2.5 for this game. That pretty much sums it up.

 

[M3tabolic]

Thanks RAMM-Jaeger

Thanks RAMM-Jaeger

That's cool.

IMO being a long-time KF player I think the graphics in this look stunning. Graphics attract the masses, but it's gameplay that makes people stay.

KF will have great gameplay and a great community right from the beginning. That's worth way more than any flashy graphics any day.

 

[Innociv]

There is something to be said with less shiny attracting the mature gamers, though. People who just want good gameplay are often moreso the people you want to play with.
But L4D graphics aren't spectacular and it's full of idiots. :x

Lets see if I can put this to rest right here. Yes normal mapping is a great engine feature. No we don't have the time/money to implement it into UE2.5 for this game. That pretty much sums it up.

Is there any chance you could add support in the engine for modders with KF?

Then we could mod a nice graphics patch ;D

I actually thought UE2.5 supported it. (Doesn't Unreal Championship have it?)