Some further Perk balancing needed

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jb_

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 17, 2009
59
13
0
Ever since the last major update on Killing Floor, gameplay has definitely changed. The Husk is just perfect, hope more specimens will appear to make the game more harder... suicidal getting too easy...


Below are some views that ive collected from pro FPS players and my own view. Suggestions were based on every situation that can occur in the game from 'team play' to '1 man survivor saving the entire squad taking out 200+ zombies on suicidal with pure skill' So our suggestions below are quite mild but yet makes a huge difference in effectiveness throughout all type of situations and gameplay.



EBR M14:
The EBR M14 is a great weapon, excellent next to a xbow player. However this weapon is so beast that it makes the bad players look good. Puts the SCAR to shame.
Keeping in mind that this weapon exists in real life, the easiest, simplest and most effective way of balancing this weapon is 'clip reduction'. Period. Everything else stays. Theres no need to alter the sharpshooter perk in any way. You'll understand how effective this mod would do when you try running around with the M14 without purchasing extra clips(7clips). Xbow is great as it is.


CHAINSAW:
Ever since the extreme nerf on this weapon, everyone has found it useless. On wave 1, the knife is a much better weapon of choice than the chainsaw.
Since then, many uber pro berzerker players have stopped playing the game. Also not as many berzerkers in the servers anymore. This also contributes to the over population of a single perk.
The chainsaw had different qualities to the katana and is in some areas more superior vice versa. Seeing a pro berzerker play with both katana and chainsaw was simply amazing. It requires a lot of skill judgement and accuracy, it isnt a perk that anyone can play effectively, thats the beauty of having PERKS in KF to suit individual tastes.
Please bring it back to how it was. 'Variety' of players and weapons was a great concept in KF. The only reason we see too many sharp shooters is because its the obvious perk of choice. And to the ppl who were complaining about berzerkers camping in a spot clipping heads, I bet its nothing as frustrating than getting blinded by a flamer or smoked up by a demolition. Infact, this is where the berzerker revs up his chainsaw and blindly kill zombies in the midst of the smoke. lol


FIREBUG:
I have found this perk to be very annoying on the same level as the Demolition 'smoke'. Since the flame can be very blinding with bad players firing at other players targets, it defeats the purpose of team play and disrupts other players sight.
Maybe giving the flame some transparency would reduce the blindness. Still waiting on a 2nd tier weapon but If theres no suitable 2nd tier weapon then I'd suggest ancinerary ammo for any weapon they equip including 9mm.


DEMOLITION:
So far this perk had great appeal initially at the thought of using a grenade launcher, while its glory in appeal was short, its become THE most annoying trouble making perk in the hands of a bad player. Obviously no one likes smoke. I've only seen 1 good demolition player so far that plays this perk in a team contributing manner. The only reasonable suggestion I could think of is 'increasing the transparency of the smoke'.


SUPPORT SPECIALIST:
When you think of 'support speciallist' the first thing you think of is 'AMMO SUPPLY'.
Just imagine how the gameplay would change when players want atleast 1 support specialist to provide ammunition. I know a lot a thought is needed on this but providing more zombies per wave and ability to drop ammo crates would greatly increase the teamwork involvement.

So thats what I'm asking. Support Specialist regenerating or stock purchasing Ammo crates + 'some more small frie zombies per wave'

Another additional thought of providing amunition is for the support specialist to be the only perk able to purchase ammo crates and drop them on the floor.


AA12 AUTO SHOTGUN:
When we all heard this gun was coming out, we all thought it was going to be over powered. Most people these days stick to the traditional Shotgun + hunting shotgun simply because its a much more effective combo. Whatever the boost would be, more shards or damage or clips will give it the justice it deserves.
But I personally get frustrated when an extremely accurate weapon like the AA12 is fired at a dead-on target and only to result in a miss due to inaccurate random behaviour of the exploding shards. The shards needs to be modded so its dead on accurate for the AA12.
This will reduce the amount of firing wastage.
The other shottys are fine.


FNH FIVE SEVEN HANDGUN:
I cant help but ask to include this weapon in the game for those who want to upgraded their 9mm. Best handgun in the world hands down. It'd be expensive, but worth it to the players who love gunplay.
 
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jb_

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 17, 2009
59
13
0
Sorry, I think this thread should be in the Ideas and suggestions section...
 

avp2501

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 4, 2009
976
51
0
Lost in the land of Magic
EBR M14: Shortening the clip is a good idea, many times i've survived a round without using a full clip. This may not be the perfect fix but a trial might be worth it.

CHAINSAW: I play all classes but for me I haven't noticed a difference with the chainsaw, and yeah quite often I just use the knife or machete since they are almost as good as the sword.

FIREBUG: Definately needs more weapons. I find the fire effect perfect since it's impossible to see through a intense fire (which is what flamethrowers do). Sadly not many people know how to use this guy effectively and so flame spam everything even units like the husk which are almost fire resistant.

DEMOLITION: The nade launchers are truely devistating and need to be matched with some kind of downside to using them, yet again it's only truely effective in the right hands. As for the smoke this isn't a problem no matter what class I am or if I'm inside/outside of the smoke (zombies shadows stand out a mile).

Many times I've saved someones life with a GL volley at their position which no other weapon could have saved them in time.

SUPPORT SPECIALIST:
I've suggested the ammo box many times in the past and still think it's a good idea, however there is one major drawback to this and thats the trader.

The point of having multiple traders was so that you wouldn't constantly camp the same area, if everyone went SS then they could happily resupply themselves without the need to move on to another area and completely ignore the trader for a few waves. This goes against the main concept of KF so it won't be implemented.
 

Nejc382

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 17, 2009
80
0
0
The smoke from demolitions is just balancing reason so get used to the smoke the game is easy enough already...

And the firebug... blinding? either your PC sucks in gfx badly or YOUR blind if u cant see enemies past the frigging flame? best to make everything transparent so the flame is inviseble and make smoke dissapear in 0.002 seconds so u can after cry how ridiculusly easy the game. Oh lets make the walls transparent too because i find it too hard to see enemies with a support shooting his shotgun...
 

[UIT] Akame

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 5, 2009
1,280
129
0
My own personal hell
The AA12 is a beast because it can act like the hunting shotgun (full-auto point blank) or an alternate shotgun (semi-auto) with faster reload and more total damage:

AA12 - 20*6[one mag loaded and 4 reserve mags] of 30*5[18000 total]
vs
Shotgun - 8+48[8 shells loaded with 48 reserve shells] of 35*7[13720 total]
vs
HS- 2+48 of 50*10[25000] (note: double barrel only)

but DPS including reload

AA12- 421
Shotgun- 128
HS- 163

It really comes down to preference but AA12 and HS combo for Single Powerful targets, Shotgun and HS or longevity, or Shotgun and AA12 for mob. AA12 is already way too powerful as is. As bad as SCAR or M14.

Firebug suffers from ammo issues, power issues, slight blinding factor, and having little effect on specs even with the burn behavior.
 

Bio666

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 10, 2009
788
2
0
The AA12 is a beast because it can act like the hunting shotgun (full-auto point blank) or an alternate shotgun (semi-auto) with faster reload and more total damage:

AA12 - 20*6[one mag loaded and 4 reserve mags] of 30*5[18000 total]
vs
Shotgun - 8+48[8 shells loaded with 48 reserve shells] of 35*7[13720 total]
vs
HS- 2+48 of 50*10[25000] (note: double barrel only)

but DPS including reload

AA12- 421
Shotgun- 128
HS- 163

It really comes down to preference but AA12 and HS combo for Single Powerful targets, Shotgun and HS or longevity, or Shotgun and AA12 for mob. AA12 is already way too powerful as is. As bad as SCAR or M14.

Firebug suffers from ammo issues, power issues, slight blinding factor, and having little effect on specs even with the burn behavior.

As a matter of fact, every calculation involves any shot gun has one weakness: considering all pellets hit. However, even a nearly point-blank HS double shot will have some miss.

And AA12 or normal shotgun are mostly used at normal range or more, thus making more pellets miss.

What AA12 lacks, SCAR and M14 make up with its range. That's balance.

Next time, if someone want to compare shotgun damage, I suggest compare statical chance of each pellets in the cone and zed mesh and distant for a more accurately result.
 

nath2009uk

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 25, 2009
1,368
174
0
England, UK
I disagree on lowering the ammo on the m14.
Thing is, with all the Sharpshooters weapons you can decap a FP in under a clip (On beginner, 1man, poundamonium)

It takes 6-8 rounds from a HC as my lvl 2 Sharpy, 1 xbow bolt, A min or about 3 LAR shots, and some people can decap a FP on hard, 6man, with an m14 in about 3-5 shots.
Considering the FP is meant to be one of the hardest enemies, Sharpshooter just needs a nerf alltogether, killing everything in one shot.
 

jb_

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 17, 2009
59
13
0
The smoke from demolitions is just balancing reason so get used to the smoke the game is easy enough already...

And the firebug... blinding? either your PC sucks in gfx badly or YOUR blind if u cant see enemies past the frigging flame? best to make everything transparent so the flame is inviseble and make smoke dissapear in 0.002 seconds so u can after cry how ridiculusly easy the game. Oh lets make the walls transparent too because i find it too hard to see enemies with a support shooting his shotgun...

My PC isnt bad, far from... my settings are all maxed out which makes HRD blooming effects blinding, even from flourescent lighting in labs. I guess I could counter this by reducing the quality settings :)

Im not blind for sure, infact my headshot count on my sharp shooter perk is at 82,000.

I only play suicidal mode, so everything happens fast, smoke does not disapear that fast in suicidal, I'm not so sure on beginner mode. But I guess your right, leave the smoke, I was probally worked up by bad players.

Thanks for your input
 
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jb_

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 17, 2009
59
13
0
The AA12 is a beast because it can act like the hunting shotgun (full-auto point blank) or an alternate shotgun (semi-auto) with faster reload and more total damage:

AA12 - 20*6[one mag loaded and 4 reserve mags] of 30*5[18000 total]
vs
Shotgun - 8+48[8 shells loaded with 48 reserve shells] of 35*7[13720 total]
vs
HS- 2+48 of 50*10[25000] (note: double barrel only)

but DPS including reload

AA12- 421
Shotgun- 128
HS- 163

It really comes down to preference but AA12 and HS combo for Single Powerful targets, Shotgun and HS or longevity, or Shotgun and AA12 for mob. AA12 is already way too powerful as is. As bad as SCAR or M14.

Firebug suffers from ammo issues, power issues, slight blinding factor, and having little effect on specs even with the burn behavior.


Thanks for your technical input mate, I think the main problem is that the shards arnt accurate enough to conserve ammo. As far as power is concerned, its rapid, but you find yourself running out on ammo on suicidal since zombies have more HP/defense points.

Its what I feel in the game on suicidal, and other players too. So we'd rather use the shotty + hunting combo since its much more effective all-round.
 

jb_

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 17, 2009
59
13
0
I disagree on lowering the ammo on the m14.
Thing is, with all the Sharpshooters weapons you can decap a FP in under a clip (On beginner, 1man, poundamonium)

It takes 6-8 rounds from a HC as my lvl 2 Sharpy, 1 xbow bolt, A min or about 3 LAR shots, and some people can decap a FP on hard, 6man, with an m14 in about 3-5 shots.
Considering the FP is meant to be one of the hardest enemies, Sharpshooter just needs a nerf alltogether, killing everything in one shot.

Thanks mate, I had no idea you could do that on beginner mode. I used to just use knife only with poundamonium 1 man hard mode before the big patch. But those days of decapping FP upclose are over.

When you start to play on suicidal mode, you'll realise the sharp shooter perk is very critical and must be dead on accurate since things happen much much faster than on beginner mode. Infact, you can die instantly when the bloat vomits on you even when your on full health no armor and on wave 1.

From what I've seen, the M14 is a mighty weapon but its almost faultless because since you have so much ammo, I see people spamming like they have infinite ammo. If they know that they only have 7 clips then I'm sure they wont abuse it.
 

jb_

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 17, 2009
59
13
0
EBR M14: Shortening the clip is a good idea, many times i've survived a round without using a full clip. This may not be the perfect fix but a trial might be worth it.

CHAINSAW: I play all classes but for me I haven't noticed a difference with the chainsaw, and yeah quite often I just use the knife or machete since they are almost as good as the sword.

FIREBUG: Definately needs more weapons. I find the fire effect perfect since it's impossible to see through a intense fire (which is what flamethrowers do). Sadly not many people know how to use this guy effectively and so flame spam everything even units like the husk which are almost fire resistant.

DEMOLITION: The nade launchers are truely devistating and need to be matched with some kind of downside to using them, yet again it's only truely effective in the right hands. As for the smoke this isn't a problem no matter what class I am or if I'm inside/outside of the smoke (zombies shadows stand out a mile).

Many times I've saved someones life with a GL volley at their position which no other weapon could have saved them in time.

SUPPORT SPECIALIST: I've suggested the ammo box many times in the past and still think it's a good idea, however there is one major drawback to this and thats the trader.

The point of having multiple traders was so that you wouldn't constantly camp the same area, if everyone went SS then they could happily resupply themselves without the need to move on to another area and completely ignore the trader for a few waves. This goes against the main concept of KF so it won't be implemented.

Chainsaw:
The way your knife decaps the clots/gorefasts works exactly the same with the old chainsaw. Basically, big damage to the head and clots/gorefasts drop dead instantly. Whereas now, they still stand headless and attack you. So yes thats why the knife is much more effective.

Firebug/Demolition:
Yes I agree with you that lots of players dont know how to use it effectively in a contributing manner to the team. Guess we cant fix that problem :p

Support:
Oh nice! hmm, Maybe dropping those ammo crates that spawn around is a better idea. He'll have to purchase them ofcourse. But I'm not that keen on this idea anyway.